Email Blacklisting
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Thread: Email Blacklisting

  1. #1
    Senior Member frpeter's Avatar
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    Arrow Email Blacklisting

    Hello,

    With spam growing in nighmarish proportions, all of us want a solution. The first CAN-SPAM act was a dismal failure. Many IT and security experts expect that CAN-SPAM2 will be just as much a failure as the first. Because of these horrid failures, large companies and Internet Service Providers are turning to Realtime Blacklists (RBls).

    These realtime black/block lists (RBLs) have often times block large chunks of the internet with a "We don't give a damned attitude". This leaves most of us wondering why WE are targeted by such brutal injustice.

    Who are these RBLs and how can we find out if infact we are going to be blocked by companies using these tactics? Two very important questions that can now be answered by ONE site.

    If you would like to see if you are blacklisted, please visit this site:

    You may be blacklisted!

    This service is provided at no charge and you are welcome to visit as often as you like. Also feel free to link this page to your site.

  2. #2
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    hmmm seems to me, but call me paranoid, that your spamming your own site..?

    like i said just call me paranoid.

  3. #3
    Senior Member frpeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidtone
    hmmm seems to me, but call me paranoid, that your spamming your own site..?
    Just trying to bring attention to a growing problem of innocent internet users being victimized and lumped into the group of spammers.

    My hope is that bring mass attention to this situation, more people will demand their ISPs and Congress(wo)men/Senetors stop turning a blind eye while taking handouts in favor of the spammers.

  4. #4
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    Remember that blacklists are also used to block internet connection to websites as well.

    http://www.dnsstuff.com has a similar lookup facility to the one posted.

    Basically if you "run a tight ship" and don't let your system relay spam, propagate worms and spread viruses then you should be OK.........that is generally how you get on a blacklist in the first place.

    If you have sloppy security you are not an innocent bystander IMO


  5. #5
    Senior Member frpeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nihil
    Remember that blacklists are also used to block internet connection to websites as well.

    http://www.dnsstuff.com has a similar lookup facility to the one posted.

    Basically if you "run a tight ship" and don't let your system relay spam, propagate worms and spread viruses then you should be OK.........that is generally how you get on a blacklist in the first place.

    If you have sloppy security you are not an innocent bystander IMO

    I wish it was that easy. A good example of this is Qwest. They have business blocks and residential blocks intermixed. A few years ago, a RBL decided to block all Qwest blocks in one chunk rather then seperate the business from the residential. Several thousand business suffered for no reason. This is where my tool is slated for. To give people a chance to deal with issues before they become problems.


    As to sloppy security, I agree 100%.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    I agree that there are quite a few "cowboys" out there....... but I sure as hell wouldn't want to do any sort of business with people that were so stupid as to use them

    We do get these problems raised here, now and then, and we try to help........ usually it is how you managed to get on the list in the first place, as this suggests that you may have an unidentified loophole?.......... naturally that is of concern to any concientious administrator.

    Another thing that I did not mention, is that some of these lists will ban whole ISPs and Countries............

    Now, you might have a good reason for it, as you never do anything there, so there is no point, BUT, I feel that part of the problem is people using these RBLs and not understanding the "rules" or "logic" behind them?


  7. #7
    Senior Member frpeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nihil
    I agree that there are quite a few "cowboys" out there....... but I sure as hell wouldn't want to do any sort of business with people that were so stupid as to use them

    We do get these problems raised here, now and then, and we try to help........ usually it is how you managed to get on the list in the first place, as this suggests that you may have an unidentified loophole?.......... naturally that is of concern to any concientious administrator.

    Another thing that I did not mention, is that some of these lists will ban whole ISPs and Countries............

    Now, you might have a good reason for it, as you never do anything there, so there is no point, BUT, I feel that part of the problem is people using these RBLs and not understanding the "rules" or "logic" behind them?

    Sadly, large businesses do use them and that begins the snowball. The other side is when a legitimate business requests delisting, quite a few RBLs are unwilling to do so. I have pernsonally been told by several RBLs, "Tough luck, change ISPs... We have no intentions of seperating the block". This is one of the more politer replies I've reveived on this issue.

    I belive blocking entire countries is flat out wrong and not in the best interests of anyone. Lets turn the tables, how would we feel if Britian decided to block all mail from the US? The general consensus would be "highly pissed". There is just too much legal mail for this type of barbaric thinking.

    I do aggree with blocking IP addresses that a given ISP says should never send mail directly, dhcp/residential, but NOT the ISP's designated mail servers, which are often in the same blocks. To this, I have written some GPL software that will block dhcp/residential IP addresses, but NOT the ISP's mail server. It is at http://tanaya.net/DynaStop/ if anyone is interested.

  8. #8
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    Hmmmm,

    I think that you slightly missed my point there. I live in a small town in the North East of England. I would cheerfully block China, Russia, Africa, South America and so on, because it is either spam, or a mistake on their part? There is no harm in that, in my opinion......... if you do not, and do not wish to do business with them you don't want their e-mails.

    The only recourse you have is to talk to your ISP? they have the $$$ to take down rogue RBLs...........like sue their a$$e$ off?

    But, if your ISP doesn't want to take the case up, maybe the advice to change is good?

    I can block snail mail spam and telephone spam so why not internet spam?

    The only question in my mind is how did you get on the list in the first place?

  9. #9
    Senior Member frpeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nihil
    Hmmmm,

    I think that you slightly missed my point there. I live in a small town in the North East of England. I would cheerfully block China, Russia, Africa, South America and so on, because it is either spam, or a mistake on their part? There is no harm in that, in my opinion......... if you do not, and do not wish to do business with them you don't want their e-mails.

    The only recourse you have is to talk to your ISP? they have the $$$ to take down rogue RBLs...........like sue their a$$e$ off?

    But, if your ISP doesn't want to take the case up, maybe the advice to change is good?

    I can block snail mail spam and telephone spam so why not internet spam?

    The only question in my mind is how did you get on the list in the first place?
    If you as an individual want to block the entire North/South American continents - go for it. I'm all for any individual user filtering their account.

    But when a large RBL scattered acrossed several juristions makes that decision, that is a major problem. I am against RBLs/ISPs acting irresposibly.

    In the US, CAN-SPAM1 and CAN-SPAM2 are so you can not sue the spammers. ISPs like AOL, EarthLink, and so on would love to sue the hell ouf of them just to recover the millions of dollars spent in blocking, filtering, and identyifing spam.

    Its not anymore, thanks to my provider doing some serious threatening. When it was, the RBL decided that every IP in the 63.0.0.0/8 was residential. Far from it, only a third or so, the rest are businesses, legal mail servers, domain servers, and doctors'/hospital sites. My "neighbor" in the same IP block I am in is a cardiologist. Quite frankly, I'd be more then pissed if an RBL blocked an email to my doctor.

  10. #10
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    Aaaah! I think that I am beginning to understand.

    Over here, I have two accounts; one of which is business, and I block stuff that is of no interest to me, particularly from countries where I will not do business. My private address, on the other hand, has no retrictions.

    My logic is that I have to put my business e-mail out there, but my private one is only given to those that I choose.

    Spam bots will find my business address, but not my private one

    I suspect that we are being faced with knee jerk "on the fly" solutions here?

    The "private" and "residential" thing doesn't work here............ most SOHO and small businesses as well as private homes use the same services.

    Anyway, if a large corporate has an unprotected server, that is the biggest spambot out?

    I think that there is a different approach in our two countries?


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