Iraq, G. dub, and the long arm of the Army Reserve

[webwurm99]

Bad bye is an interesting thread but lists too many points to reply to.

Iraq:
While I'm not a Saddam sympathizer, I am against U.S. occupation of a foreign country. We as a nation do NOT have the right to decide what is best for another countries people. How can you "liberate" via "shock and awe bombing"? How can you "liberate" by destroying the infrastructure of a country, and removing the things we consider to be basic human rights? Who is more evil? One group of people Saddam gassed had formed a militia to fight against him, do you think George bush would do any less if he could get away with it. The figures I have heard about hoe many people Saddam killed include his war with Iran. Do acts of war count as murder?

G. Dub (George W. Bush):
George is the president, and thereby IS responsible for the war. Bill Clinton (may have) coined the phrase WMD but he said "to attack his neighbors". George W. said Saddam would attack us. Why does nobody consider that while the Bush family is in the oil business, they are also in the war business? (I cant recall the name of the company) but they build implements of war. It seems to me they are profiting twice from the same immoral act. Lets look at the Patriot act, systematicly removing rights we are guaranteed by our constitution. What would this man be capable of if he didn't have congress to answer to? How can people try to put the blame on his "inner circle" "the powers that be" but the fact is whenever someone disagrees with his agenda he replaces them. Why are some people so blind to the fact that this is an evil man?


The Army Reserve:
Am I the only person who thinks the U.S. military has become a sissified Brady Bunch version of itself? Its like they want to fight via playstation. We don't have the guts to pull off something like D-day anymore. I mean, we started a war, and I'm getting tired of people whining because our troops are dieing. Its the price you pay. I Know thats not what they thought they would have to do for some collage money, but its in the contract. I'mgetting tired of hearing "I was in Iraq to protect american freedom." B.S. Iraq or Saddam posed no threat to american freedom. Don't get me wrong I don't think they should die, I think they should be here. I think they should be helping get people out of hurricane zones. They should be helping to keep the levies in New Orleans from collapsing. They should only be called upon to fight if America is in genuine danger.




Just my $.02
Wurm

[ShagDevil]

Don't forget Bush Jr. is also responsible for hurricane Katrina, global warming, outsourcing, dinosaur extinction, constipation, the pot hole in front of my house and the horrible music of the 1980's.

[rcgreen]

I am against U.S. occupation of a foreign country.

I am still waiting for them to leave Virginia.

and the horrible music of the 1980's.

If you said the 1970s I would agree

There will be a presidential election in Nov. of 2008. George jr
gets a pension, and someone else will have to be the scapegoat
for a while. I know it's a tough job, but if the people insist, I would
consider it. Mind you, I have a lot of other things going on, but...

[nihil]

I am still waiting for them to leave Virginia.

The "Northern War Of Economic Aggression" is not over my friend

Go for it mate!..........at the least you will get a PI/75 and five free AOL e-mail accounts?

[brokencrow]

Well, I certainly agree with your first point about US occupations of foriegn lands. It certainly goes against the grain of our Founding Father's desire to avoid foriegn entanglements (I believe that was the term they used).

As for your second point, it might behoove you to check the short and not-so-sweet history of Bill Clinton's regime change in Serbia (1999). Clinton's action was altogether unilateral, done without either UN support, or even NATO support in the end. Shock and awe was not GWB's invention. And Bill Clinton certainly set a legal and moral precedent for GWB. Remember, these boys all play golf together, and never forget, the world is run from golf courses these days.

And as for your third point, don't go calling any Iraq/Afghan vets the "Brady Bunch" unless you've got a good orthodontist. I know a number of young vets, and to the man, or woman, they will likely tell you the money we've dumped in Iraq would've been better spent here in the States. Many have neen thru Hell, and back, and my heart goes out to them...

[webwurm99]

Second point:
I believe you are pointing at Kosovo? I think Clinton did have NATO support. the UN was in charge of the NATO forces that took control at the end of the conflict. The UN also didn't support Bush, as I recall they wanted to allow Saddam more time to comply.

Third Point:
That statement was about the military "machine" more than the troops themselves. Where I live is a hotbed of military bases, hell you can see NORAD out my window. I know a lot of vets myself, and my statements hold true. There is no way they would storm a protected beach, on foot, from the sea, while people are dieing all around. Most of them would lay down and cry until they were shot!!! Its a whole different military, thats all.

[Evil Moo]

Even if a psychopathic, mass murdering, power-mongering, despot were in the middle of invading neighboring countries to plunder them (or destroying them on his way out), or was shooting off missles at innocent unprovoked nations, or in the process of tossing sarin gas around like baseballs....


The UN would still give him more time...

...and I believe they did. So, I think that says a lot.

[brokencrow]

The U.N. had nothing to do with attacking Serbia and Kosovo. It
began strictly as a NATO op, under the auspices of President Clinton
and Gen. Clark, in bombing and occupying Kosovo. But the 40 night
bombing of Belgrade, a major European city, was strictly an American
op. Funny how we never saw the pics on US television. And all this
was done unilaterally without U.N. support.

As for US troops laying down and crying, this does indeed occur in
any given war among any given group of soldiers. So what? Combat
is probably the craziest thing that can happen to a person. US troops
in Iraq and Afghanistan have a very aggressive rep.

[dalek]

There is no way they would storm a protected beach, on foot, from the sea, while people are dieing all around. Most of them would lay down and cry until they were shot!!! Its a whole different military, thats all.

Your right, but it's a different type of battle/war, this stuff is as close to hand to hand as you can get, warfare on a large scale is what happened at first, the door to door stuff is now, to me that's scarier, also the enemy is not wearing a uniform, try deciphering whether the person walking towards you is actually foe or ally....it's a realm of intense paranoia, and unless your head is screwed on tight, any matter of things can set you off, so shitting in one's drawers is to be expected, and if you think those "saving private ryan types" storming the beaches of Juno weren't shitting their's then well....you and I weren't there, but an honest vet will tell you that for the most part they were just as terrified or "bored"...boredom kills by the way...or it's idle minds....and that's what these guy's and gal's have to contend with...for the 3rd or 4th time......it's also why their bonds are so tight as a group, fear is a very motivational tool, and in a group or mob can lead to disastrous results....I personally have never experienced this myself, but I have read enough letters from the line to read between the lines or what isn't censored out....

If they don't soon resolve this issue, you are going to have possible 5th tours of duty for some of these units, and guess what, maybe not right away but possibly a few yrs down the road, some of these people are going to explode, it happened to a lot of Vietnam Vets, it happened to a lot of WWII vets and Korea...and if the US takes on Iran, be prepared for the draft...

[westin]

and if the US takes on Iran, be prepared for the draft...

well, then Canada better be prepared for me ... don't get me wrong, I fully support the troops, but not the war.

Well, I certainly agree with your first point about US occupations of foriegn lands. It certainly goes against the grain of our Founding Father's desire to avoid foriegn entanglements (I believe that was the term they used).

I think brokencrow hit the nail on the head right here... but we are in the war, and there isn't much we can do about that right now... we will just have to ride this crazy torpedo to the end. which may not come anytime soon.