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Thread: AO - Max security for a connected world

  1. #211
    ********** |ceWriterguy
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    Ok, speaking in regards to the odd chance of winning $50 from Jup...

    This consitutes being 'paid' for your work - ergo Jup, not you, retains all rights to whatever you put to print here, for the mere shot at winning $50. Sorry Jup, I don't sell my stuff so cheaply. $50 per hour maybe... No tuts for you.

    And now on to JPNyc:
    this bloodbath of an upgrade
    Bloodbath? Let's see. I saw a change up of the look of the main page, a User CP added, Antipoints changed to Rep. Where's the bloodbath? You speak as if you moved heaven and earth for these changes. What really occurred is a continuation of what was already occurring - a massive outmigration of your membership to other forums where their opinions wouldn't be stepped on or belittled by moderators. This problem, I might add, remains as yet unaddressed. Hell, we can't even get an apology out of one mod who was clearly in the wrong (and u*n*p*r*o*f*e*s*s*i*o*n*a*l to use a play on his wording) to the original poster in his response post about rainbow tables. Pathetic. Btw that's here since you don't review content it seems, preferring to not watch the guardians:
    http://antionline.com/showthread.php?t=276765

    Nuff said.
    Last edited by |3lack|ce; March 19th, 2008 at 05:22 AM.
    Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

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  2. #212
    Senior Member JPnyc's Avatar
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    How much is tazz offering?

    I can't believe you're going to sit there, with absolutely zero knowledge of what was involved in upgrading this forum, and call me a liar. That's mind-boggling. Did you read what I wrote? The other admin on this forum spent 48 straight hours babysitting the import, because it kept breaking. A normal upgrade of unhacked software takes 30 to 60 minutes, depending on the size of the DB.

    This is after several weeks of discussion, writing custom scripts, doing test imports, styling the new forum to make it resemble the old as much as possible, and then as I said capping all that off with a 48 hour workday. How often have YOU done that? Worked two straight days with just occasional catnaps? I took over for her at 4:45 a.m. on Tuesday. She began before 6 a.m. that Sunday.

    We busted our butts on this upgrade trying to keep as much of the old forum function as possible, and there were problems even with that. I can see how much it's appreciated. In fact, it's not even believed. You have no idea what was done to the old forum, and its database. It wasn't even vBulletin software anymore.

    Anyway we did our best, and for any of you for whom that is not sufficient, go where you feel the grass is greener.

  3. #213
    You guys have shown your cards...
    If it requires an alteration to the database, it won't happen.
    Ok, so you're stuck on this software... offering cash for tuts is a non-technical solution to have users contribute... that decisions make more sense now. You guys are strapped for time and resources...

    It's clear in that there's a conflict in what JupM wants and what AntiOnline currently is.

    JupM wants user contributed content to drive in traffic... hence the $50 prize to encourage new content to be created. JupM recognizes that new content drives in traffic, and why wouldn't it? It encourages cross linking, blog posts, and all kinds of other chatter that brings in the views.

    Since all forms of incentive provided by the forum software are gone, there is no visible incentive to encourage users to put up good content. However, JupM wants a slashdot, a digg, a reddit, etc etc etc... all are sites with significant user contribution and succeed in doing so because they provide user incentive.

    Relevant content has slowed to a halt on AO, therefore AO is relying on old content to bring in traffic. Yes, AO is probably reliant on search engine traffic for ad revenue. If JupM can't get users to contribute, JupM may as well invest in SEO spam towards the old forum posts.

    AO has some things going for it:
    Awesome search ranking: I see posts come up on my previous work in my day to day job
    Intelligent Members: Yes, there are some left... many would come back, I bet.
    Established Presence: People remember AO

    If new content doesn't kick in, then AO will soon become irrelevant both in search and to users, and will fail to bring in revenue. JupM needs to support a move to software that supports multiple forms of incentive for users to contribute... which is done best if users incentivize eachother. (see digg and old AO)

    Unfortunately, to my point... there is no such software off the shelf...

    JP, Phernandez... you guys need developers. You are in a scary place where things need to change to become fruitful, but you don't have the resources to do this. This place needs to be equipped to have it's users support and incentivize eachother (that does not mean "whizbangs and gadgets and plugins and glitter!!!!!", that means design a product that will let users support one another...

    Couple of easy projects would be to add visible AP's back to posts and threads, and maybe have user sponsored threads make the front page in some valuable real estate.
    Last edited by Soda_Popinsky; March 19th, 2008 at 07:24 AM.

  4. #214
    Right turn Clyde Nokia's Avatar
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    Offering an incentive for writing tutorials is defiantly a leap in the right direction IMHO - however, if you think about the folks who are the most likely to write decent worthwhile tutorials that will pull in members to read, spark up an interesting discussions etc, then it is going to be those who are pretty well established in IT security.

    Whilst it is good JupMed have listened to member suggestions and agreed to it and I do realize JupMed are not strictly paying people to write tutorials but are offering an incentive - if you actually break it down; a decent tutorial probably takes around 6 hours to write, to folks in the UK $50 works out at around 22, I earn that in about half an hour as I'm sure most IT security folks do, to write a tutorial that JupMed can do with what they want JuPMed are offering a staggering 3.60 per hour for 6 hours work...

    Again, I do appreciate that JupMed are not paying someone but are offering an incentive.....but it is a very low incentive when you put it in to prospective and one that will probably not generate a large amount of interest - it almost comes across as a token gesture to please the members but without actually putting JuPMed through too much trouble...


    This thread does read like a massive bitch against JupMed, but if members that have not been active here for some time are prepared to come back and offer their suggestions it does show that there is a possibility to revive AO and maybe JupMed should show as much interest in AO too...

    JP -You say that two main suggestions in this thread are paid tutorials and a honeypot.....I would say that 90% of the members have an issue with some of the moderators that has gone un-adressed for nearly three years.....you say if anything happens from now on you will deal with it.....the issue with the rainbow table thread has been raised three times in this thread and twice in the actual rainbow table thread and has been reported through the 'report a post' button.......clearly it is an arrogant Moderator with little or no IT security knowledge who tried to belittle a newer member due to his own ignorance and lack of knowledge of the topic being discusses - it is this exact thing that has gone on for three years and which pissed everyone off in the first place and forced them to go elsewhere.....you have blatantly ignored every comment about it so far....I have said it before and I will say it again, sort the moderation out and a fair amount of old members will come back, it's no coincidence they left when certain people got power crazy...
    Drugs have taught an entire generation of kids the metric system.

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  5. #215
    T̙͓̞̣̯ͦͭͅͅȂͧͭͧ̏̈͏̖̖Z̿ ͆̎̄
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    How much is tazz offering?
    Well...really JPnyc...if TAZ was earning revenue of 100 million dollars plus a year like JupMed then fine...but we operate at a deficit. Apples and Oranges.

    if you actually break it down; a decent tutorial probably takes around 6 hours to write, to folks in the UK $50 works out at around 22
    That's only if your tut gets picked as the top of the month...otherwise it's $0

    offer their suggestions it does show that there is a possibility to revive AO and maybe JupMed should show as much interest in AO too
    Exactly...why would we even waste our time otherwise. TAZ is not in competition with AO...we still participate here as well...and we'd all like to see AO regain some of it's former glory. We are all members of several forums...there isn't anyone here that is exclusively AO or TAZ...we are not ' former ' AO members...we are present AO members offering our suggestions...we are still a part of this community.
    Last edited by Egaladeist; March 19th, 2008 at 12:08 PM.

  6. #216
    ********** |ceWriterguy
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    This is after several weeks of discussion, writing custom scripts, doing test imports, styling the new forum to make it resemble the old as much as possible, and then as I said capping all that off with a 48 hour workday. How often have YOU done that? Worked two straight days with just occasional catnaps? I took over for her at 4:45 a.m. on Tuesday. She began before 6 a.m. that Sunday.
    With occasional catnaps? Never. I *have* however stood 72 straight hours on an electrical switchboard keeping power available to an aircraft carrier in combat conditions - no naps.

    As for the rest of your statement quoted above, it appears that 'she' did the 48, not you, who took over at 4:45am on Tuesday. She busted her butt. Give proper credit here.

    Now address the mods issue? Please?
    Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

    Which coder said that nobody could outcode Microsoft in their own OS? Write a bit and make a fortune!

  7. #217
    T̙͓̞̣̯ͦͭͅͅȂͧͭͧ̏̈͏̖̖Z̿ ͆̎̄
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    How often have YOU done that? Worked two straight days with just occasional catnaps?
    I know this is addressed to Ice...but...really, I can't feel sorry for them having to work 48 hours straight...

    It's every day for me...between the kids, work, being responsible for a registered charity, the forum/s, websites, continuous pain, and now two cats...I haven't seen 3 hours sleep in a row since 1996. For the most part all I ever get are cat naps.

  8. #218
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    Hi,

    Is it a 'Battle of Egos' now?

    Cheers
    R.o.P.E

  9. #219
    T̙͓̞̣̯ͦͭͅͅȂͧͭͧ̏̈͏̖̖Z̿ ͆̎̄
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    No...a simple reality check. 48 hours is not a long time...as anyone working double-shifts in a Plant can boast. Been there done that too.

  10. #220
    Just a Virtualized Geek MrLinus's Avatar
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    I don't think the time it took to upgrade the site is as critical to note as the fact that it took so much additional effort because of so many undocument changes. The reality was the site was hugely hacked well beyond upgradability.That said, the reality is that we do need to work on having more content here. Some of that should come from JUPM and some from members. Very similar to when I teach, I can bring all I have but if the membership doesn't bring it's part it doesn't help.

    For a $50 a tutorial doesn't need to be 60 pages but a single page is sufficient. Something that is an hour or two of work. If it's more than that, break it up into multiple tutorials. Think about it. For AO, it means people wanting to come back and read more and for the author it does mean some extra money for writing a multiple part tut over a few weeks or whatever.

    As for the mod issue, that is something for JUPM to determine and decide. From my *PERSONAL* point of view, I'd ask that members file specific complaints (with post links) as incidents happen. It's hard to address after but if the pattern is shown while it happens it can be addressed. But that's just me.
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