AO - Max security for a connected world

[JPnyc]

Enough! I have asked Gore to let it drop and I'm asking you the same please. We have a lot more important things to discuss and personal battles are getting in the way.

[|3lack|ce]

By the way JPNyc, did you know that at one time the real Captain Crunch was an active (and posting) member here? I think Mitnick himself even visited from time to time although he didn't post very frequently.

Security people of today were the hackers, crackers, and phreaks of yesterday. This trend will quite likely continue.

[JPnyc]

I am not espousing the "hackers are evil and must die" viewpoint here. I'm just pointing out the realities of the real world. I know what you're saying is true. I don't even question it for a second. I'm simply pointing out there are overriding factors that we are not in a position to ignore.

[gore]

Ah, but Gore, here's the rub. Your individual actions are not necessarily the actions of other moderators, and you bloody well know it. I knew when you took the mod spot you were known to hit both sides of that line occasionally, and I was glad to see it getting into the mods group. There *are* other moderators who'll nuke a thread and a user in a freakin heartbeat over the mere mention of the word 'hack' or 'crack' or 'phreak', or any implication thereof.

I'll agree with you, I think it's because of the anti-cracking attitude that got popular and some members were flat out mad if someone asked anything about cracking. The flaming was fun for a bit, but you're right in that respect, some do get ANSI when a thread pops up about breaking something.

And yea, I really can't speak for everyone, just me personally.

As said, it's a very thin line to be walking. On one end, you have people who'd love to hear about it, and on the other, you have people thinking "Oh **** what if some moron sees this and uses it against a hugue company who wants to put us in court over it because they said they learned how to do it here..."..

So it is a pretty thin line.

[JPnyc]

By the way, for the record, I will not support closing any thread for the mere mention of certain words. Giving someone a step-by-step instructions on how to hack something, that's a little different. It's really all in how it's presented.

I know that's extremely pedantic but that's the way the law is, and we're subject to it. If it's presented as a way to block a certain type of attack, then the attack details themselves must be included.

[xiphias360]

@J to tha P: fair enough. hopefully the posthumpers read that, JP said it once, no need for a billion little echos trying to get their small voices heard.

@Ice: that's a real shame. I originally heard about this site through word of mouth so that shows how great it once was. Today I wouldn't recommend this site to a noob. It desperately needs a breath of fresh air...

[|3lack|ce]

Ah, yes, the lawsuit angle.

Query your legal department once again regarding this potentiality. A simple disclaimer should be enough to protect you against suits brought against JupM over information found in these forums. Me, I'd post it prominently on the front page, or to each member at their initial signup.

To wit:

The information contained on this site is posted at the discretion of the users and is not censored. What you do with this information may or may not be illegal in your city, state, or country, and could get you arrested, jailed, or sued in civil court. JupMedia and its affiliates will not be held liable for any damages which may be caused by what a user does with the information they find here. By accepting this membership you release JupMedia and its affiliates from and accept full responsibility for your own actions regarding any and all information contained herein.

Your legal assistants can most likely word it better, I'm going off one that Mrs|ce wrote for a different client of hers and changing it somewhat to adapt to this situation. The basic point of that whole blurb above was to force responsibility back onto the membership - and release Jup from any liability, In essence, making you 'lawsuit proof' regarding these forums. If they don't agree to it, they don't get membership here and can't see anything posted.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. This advice was given freely by me to you so that you might contact a REAL attorney and get it done correctly. Anything you do with what I've said is at your own risk!

[JPnyc]

@J to tha P: fair enough. hopefully the posthumpers read that, JP said it once, no need for a billion little echos trying to get their small voices heard.

@Ice: that's a real shame. I originally heard about this site through word of mouth so that shows how great it once was. Today I wouldn't recommend this site to a noob. It desperately needs a breath of fresh air...

Thank you. I really am going to make an effort to fix what I can. For the first year and a half of my time in this job, I was more or less told to leave this forum alone. But it was inching down anyway, so I figured there was nothing to lose in getting involved. I'm going to try to make it a positive involvement, but I need help from you guys as well.

So we'll ease up on the hair trigger thread closings. That's the kind of thing that falls under my jurisdiction.

[JPnyc]

Ah, yes, the lawsuit angle.

Query your legal department once again regarding this potentiality. A simple disclaimer should be enough to protect you against suits brought against JupM over information found in these forums. Me, I'd post it prominently on the front page, or to each member at their initial signup.

To wit:

The information contained on this site is posted at the discretion of the users and is not censored. What you do with this information may or may not be illegal in your city, state, or country, and could get you arrested, jailed, or sued in civil court. JupMedia and its affiliates will not be held liable for any damages which may be caused by what a user does with the information they find here. By accepting this membership you release JupMedia and its affiliates from and accept full responsibility for your own actions regarding any and all information contained herein.

Your legal assistants can most likely word it better, I'm going off one that Mrs|ce wrote for a different client of hers and changing it somewhat to adapt to this situation. The basic point of that whole blurb above was to force responsibility back onto the membership - and release Jup from any liability, In essence, making you 'lawsuit proof' regarding these forums. If they don't agree to it, they don't get membership here and can't see anything posted.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. This advice was given freely by me to you so that you might contact a REAL attorney and get it done correctly. Anything you do with what I've said is at your own risk!

it's not merely the notion of being sued, we can't be known as a "hacking site". Like I keep saying, I realize security and hacking are two different sides of the same fence, and often times it's impossible to tell which side a given piece of information falls on, but we're still obligated to try to see they fall on the security side most of the time.

[|3lack|ce]

Xip, there were folks who were saying AO was dying back when I first joined. They got laughed at. It really didn't start into very serious decline until a few months before the update, and I firmly believe that as long as JPNyc and Intmon keep open minds (and ears) about it, the site as a whole is quite salvagable.

JPNyc: I'd also like to see more download links to newer and bigger security tools. I realize that the "Standard 4" are about all anyone needs, but there *are* other packages out there to do things like system optimization, registry cleaning, etc. In this new age of *cough*itsucks*cough*Vista, folks are going that direction, others like me are staying with XP until it drops completely, and still others are Linux guys. We need utilities that cover all of the above, with clear, easy to understand, and quite concise documentation on each. That oughtta give your guys something to do for awhile eh?

If you want AO to be the powerhouse it once was, you gotta flow with the changes - this means advertising elsewhere, providing updates and information that *nobody* has anywhere else (yet) and staying on top of all of the above. It means getting the damned popup ads off your site, (including the one that keeps putting fastclick on my machine - I know it's benign, but it still eats my resources and pisses me off). Get a core membership going and make bloody well sure you keep them happy, for they'll be your life blood and if they leave you're fuxored. I am of the firm belief that this is what caused the tailspin you're now in, and it CAN be remedied.

One thing nobody's mentioned here yet: Diversity.

What if Antionline added in a few forums about gaming, medicine, and other topics unrelated to the security world?

BTW I'm looking for employment if you're hiring I ain't a techie by any means of the word, but I know business and have a pretty sharp legal mind as well. I charge as much as you'll pay me and I won't relocate or punch a time clock unless you're dead serious with any offer and it includes moving expenses.