Internet Freedom?????
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Thread: Internet Freedom?????

  1. #1
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    Internet Freedom?????

    Maybe I should have posted this in Tech Humour? anyways the anoraks are at it again................I bet they all ride Lambrettas

    http://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2256632/...anti-microsoft

    or use the interwebz just to get those blue pills?



    EDIT:

    "By translating Windows 7 Sins into as many languages as possible, we are making this an international campaign for computer user freedom," said FSF campaign manager Matt Lee.
    As far as I am aware, users in most parts of the World are free to chose whatever software they want, and they seem to have done so?

    "caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware)............you don't have to buy proprietary products, it's just that most people chose to do so.

    "Vox Populi, Vox Dei"..............the voice of the people is the voice of God...........and the people have spoken.

    I just cannot believe that the majority of corporate and institutional users Worldwide actually chose proprietary software because they enjoy paying for it? They must have other very good reasons?

    If anyone is going to dent Microsoft it will be the Cubans and South Americans. Check out "Nova Linux" (Cuba) and "Red Star Linux" (Argentina).

    The Chinese would like to try, but are really not that good.........I have "Red Flag Linux SP1" and "Kylin Linux", but they are really nothing more than regular distros translated into Chinese. The first two are a much more serious attempt to build a friendly GUI (provided you understand Spanish)

    If it ever happens, it will be politics that will do the job, not a shower of whining anoraks IMO.
    Last edited by nihil; January 25th, 2010 at 12:03 PM.
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  2. #2
    Keeping The Balance CybertecOne's Avatar
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    you don't have to buy proprietary products, it's just that most people chose to do so.
    Odd - You have a favourite breakfast cereal, Linux Crispies right. But in the morning you only have 2 options; MicroFlakes or MacBix - naturally you make a choice between them, deciding to go with MicroFlakes.

    Life goes on and you made your own choice from the options presented, right?...... In reality MicroFlakes stuffed the Linux Crispies into a dark corner of the pantry during the night, of which you were unaware.

    would you not agree that your choice was actually coerced and therefore was not truly your own choice. ?
    Last edited by CybertecOne; January 25th, 2010 at 01:08 PM. Reason: typo
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius --- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
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  3. #3
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    Life goes on and you made your own choice from the options presented, right?...... In reality MicroFlakes stuffed the Linux Crispies into a dark corner of the pantry during the night, of which you were unaware.
    But that is not what happened in reality. Both Microsoft and Apple had off-the-shelf, commercial operating systems on the market long before Linus Torvalds began his development in 1991. For example:

    Windows 2.0 : 1987
    Windows 3.0 : 1990
    Windows 3.1 : 1992
    Windows NT : 1993

    Windows didn't squeeze Linux out of the market.............they already owned it.

    By some accounts Linux is the only growing OS today:

    http://blogs.computerworld.com/15462...os_x_shrinkage

    There is certainly no coercion, but, because reasonably user friendly freeware considerably postdates commercial products, it does require a conscious effort to chose them.
    Last edited by nihil; January 26th, 2010 at 09:29 AM. Reason: grammar
    If you cannot do someone any good: don't do them any harm....
    As long as you did this to one of these, the least of my little ones............you did it unto Me.
    What profiteth a man if he gains the entire World at the expense of his immortal soul?

  4. #4
    Gonzo District BOFH westin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nihil View Post

    There is certainly no coercion, but, because reasonably user friendly freeware considerably postdates commercial products, it does require a conscious effort to chose them.
    Very well put. There are very few computer manufacturers that offer any Linux distro preinstalled when you get the system. I know some of the netbooks give you that option, and I think Lenovo used to, but I am not sure if any of the other major manufacturers even give you a choice.

    So I would agree that, for the most part, it would have to be a conscious effort.

    I think a lot of people are afraid of linux. It conjures up images of green text on a black screen, software/hardware install nightmares, much weeping, and gnashing of teeth. When really, some of the distros are almost easier to install/use than their proprietary competitors. Some of it is just a matter of getting used to the OS.
    Last edited by westin; January 26th, 2010 at 05:46 PM.
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  5. #5
    AO BOFH: Luser Abuser BModeratorFH gore's Avatar
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    I've seen coercion on Windows. try installing a Service Pack on a machine that has to stay up and running lol. Or for that matter, a fresh install needing 200 hot fixes....

    Before Linux, when you got a PC, Windows wasn't the ONLY choice... There has been BSD for a long time. And though it took a while to get one working well on PC hardware, FreeBSD has been doing it for a long time after 386/BSD had stopped being worked on.

    So in a way, there have been other choices, but who here has Honestly ever seen a PC where you had a REAL choice? If I go to a Gateway PC place, all I see is Windows. No BSD, no Linux most of the time.... And even BeOS was a valid option. I still have my copy of BeOS Professional here. It's a great OS that I don't think ever saw it's full potential.

    These days you can sort of find Linux preinstalled on well known PC makers.... But some seem to think Ubuntu is the only option. I'd rather have SUSE pre-installed.

    If you order a PC from a non big name maker, you can get a lot of options, but for the average user looking at a Dell or something, they won't even know. I remember a few even shipped with totally useless Windows Driver CDs... I'm sure Nihil can back me up on that one... It was pretty stupid.

    If you order a Mac, it's the same thing. Even though multiple versions of BSD and Linux are usable on that, it's not like Apple will Sell them.
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    Playing devil's advocate here:
    Chromium OS. Now this entire debate is an antique we can shelf next to the Apollo lander.

    But really, why is Microsoft so popular? They had a business plan to get there. Why is mac expanding it's user base? Aggressive marketing. What is linux doing? It's being a split and diverse community working towards better software for free and running the servers of the world etc etc, with average users who want to play farmville being left out in the dark. Not to mention people think "oh, there's two products, one's $300, one's free... **** I should pay for one so I don't get as many viruses, I'm a User."
    Hi.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    I've seen coercion on Windows. try installing a Service Pack on a machine that has to stay up and running lol.
    Easy!................ I just go to my Disaster Recovery and Business Continuity Plan and find out where my backup machine or backup site is...............

    Or for that matter, a fresh install needing 200 hot fixes....
    Simple, you just install your ghosted image of your standard installation, or your backup.................hell! you have forgotten you would have to reinstall all your applications and data as well?

    //slightly off topic//

    gore's comment does raise what I see as an issue with Windows:

    You buy a copy of Windows when it first comes out. Every patch Tuesday you get an automatic update from MS, and every now and then they issue a service pack. These are automatically installed by Windows.

    Now, there comes a time that whatever you are doing requires you to "insert the Windows CD", and it then helpfully informs you that this is the wrong CD

    Unfortunately, most non-technical users have never heard of "slipstreaming" and do not know how to get to the administrators' part of the MS website to get the remote, unattended installation versions of the hotfixes and service packs.

    They have also never heard of the free nLite and vLite applications that simplify the slipstreaming process.

    http://www.nliteos.com/

    http://www.vlite.net/

    // end off topic//

    I remember a few even shipped with totally useless Windows Driver CDs... I'm sure Nihil can back me up on that one...
    Yes, the first time I came across that sort of thing was with the European edition of the Packard Bell recovery CD............... it just didn't work!!!

    One thing I have noticed about Dell is that they supply you with drivers you have no possible use for. This is because they sell custom hardware to the public, and the drivers are intended to cover all available (from Dell) options. Obviously, it would considerably increase the price if they had to provide customised driver sets.

    DZ:
    But really, why is Microsoft so popular? They had a business plan to get there.
    Yes, back in the day it was really all about who produced the most user friendly GUIs.

    Apple were in the lead, but stubbornly stuck to their antiquated "we make computer hardware" business model.

    Bill Gates came along and saw the niche for a software only orientated business model, and the rest as they say "is history"

    OK, if he hadn't had the support of IBM in the beginning, he would be history
    If you cannot do someone any good: don't do them any harm....
    As long as you did this to one of these, the least of my little ones............you did it unto Me.
    What profiteth a man if he gains the entire World at the expense of his immortal soul?

  8. #8
    Keeping The Balance CybertecOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakain Zeil View Post
    oh, there's two products, one's $300, one's free... **** I should pay for one so I don't get as many viruses, I'm a User."
    But where did this thinking come from in the first place? At what point did the milk you buy become better than the milk you get for free? (To turn a phrase).

    Before Money and Capitalism (Aussie here) the farmer would get his bread from the baker, in exchange for the baker getting milk and grain. Then some guy either waged war and conquered or paid his way into owning both the farmer and baker work (in essence reducing the number of choices available)..... which is the beginning of capitalism.

    Food for thought....
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius --- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
    - Albert Einstein

  9. #9
    Keeping The Balance CybertecOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nihil View Post
    Simple, you just install your ghosted image of your standard installation, or your backup.................hell! you have forgotten you would have to reinstall all your applications and data as well?
    Go StorageCrafts ShadowProtect..... Hardware Independant Restore or HIR - Also Backup Image Mounting and VM would help with such a problem too.

    Excuse the plug - but this product really has saved me a tonne of time and worry, such as restoring an entire server including applications, network and domain infrastructure - onto entirely different hardware, and taking less than an hour from USB HDD backup.

    So for these patches, you would restore a backup onto a 'test server' going through the instructions provided, apply the patch, do the restarts etc etc and then backup the server and then restore to the 'live server' taking < 10mins for a 20gb sys partition.

    Blah blah blah etc etc

    Peace

    CTO
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius --- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."
    - Albert Einstein

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