Can you really get by with no av on a windows box
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  1. #1
    Only african to own a PC! Cider's Avatar
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    Can you really get by with no av on a windows box

    So I thought I would start a thread thats fairly interesting and would require everyone to post there thoughts, whether it be for or against.

    I work for an AV company, I know my trade, I know what to do and when not to do it. I download torrents, I run cracks, I mess with around with no so reputable software. I am a internet addict.

    I do not run any AV at home on my windows 7 box. I have a standard PC > Router (NAT) > WWW.

    Everytime I have thought my PC is slow or something is wrong I have checked it and run various software and found nothing.

    The question is, how long can I get by before getting infected.

    Some may call me stupid and some might agree its do-able with the correct "savy" if you will.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
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  2. #2
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    WOW... Is there some particular reason why you don't have an AV?

    I killed by a link that a moderator posted on another site and I had an AV... I now have a better one

  3. #3
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    Hi there Cider,

    I got rid of the duplicate post as you requested

    On my Windows 7 and 8 boxes I just use the Microsoft security. For Vista I have a firewall and AV.

    XP and 2000 have FW, AV and behavioural monitoring, and the rest.

    Anything older doesn't go on the internet or get external media, so no security products are required.

    E-commerce is on a dedicated box with cat5/RJ45 connection. It only gets turned on and connected when I want to use it.

    I never store personal information on any PC and AFAIK the ones with network connection merely share the access point. There is no file sharing and the connections are set to "Public network".

    I think that the days of a personal, pattern or signature based AV are long gone.

    Corporations will buy them as a CYA for the IT execs and private individuals might get sucked in, although there are plenty of free versions around.

    If you have kids and clicky clicky idiots around then you might think different, but I think that there is no substitute for common sense and net savvy.
    If you cannot do someone any good: don't do them any harm....
    As long as you did this to one of these, the least of my little ones............you did it unto Me.
    What profiteth a man if he gains the entire World at the expense of his immortal soul?

  4. #4
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    I posted that link which was OK when I posted it, but turned viral a few minutes later. The site was legitimate before it was compromised.

    I've run antivirus software on everything that has an OS including my cell phone and PC's. I'd put them on my TV and other AV equipment if I could. I currently have more non-computer devices connected to the internet than computers. I block most stuff at a firewall that sits just behind my router.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve R Jones View Post
    I got killed by a link that a moderator posted on another site and I had an AV... I now have a better one
    Quote Originally Posted by ua549 View Post
    I posted that link which was OK when I posted it, but turned viral a few minutes later. The site was legitimate before it was compromised.

    I've run antivirus software on everything that has an OS including my cell phone and PC's. I'd put them on my TV and other AV equipment if I could. I currently have more non-computer devices connected to the internet than computers. I block most stuff at a firewall that sits just behind my router.
    I too thought I'd never get a virus... But when you add these two quotes together you get a day full of screwed up computer... No desktop icons - all files marked as hidden, can't run anti virus etc.....

    I was using Aviria at the time and now use MSE...

    As far as system performance - if you put two brand new computers in front of me and only one had an AV installed, I certainly wouldn't bet you I could tell which machine was faster...

    But luckily in the land of the free and the home of the brave - we can make our own decisions

  6. #6
    AO BOFH: Luser Abuser BModeratorFH gore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve R Jones View Post
    But luckily in the land of the free and the home of the brave - we can make our own decisions
    Try smoking a Joint in your own Home inhaling the smoke into your own body, even if it's your very first time ever, with a DEA agent outside watching, even if you DO have a Prescription for it, and then say that again. That Prescription won't mean a thing and you'll realize pretty damn quick we in fact CAN'T make our own decisions The best part is how, if we invented time Travel, the DEA would stop America from becoming a country, since our founding Fathers would be in jail for smuggling Rum into the country, and get arrested for Weed and Opium.

    And to make sure I don't stray off topic much; How about that there stoned virus! Lol.
    Kill the lights, let the candles burn behind the pumpkins’ mischievous grins, and let the skeletons dance. For one thing is certain, The Misfits have returned and once again everyday is Halloween.The Misfits FreeBSD
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  7. #7
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    And to make sure I don't stray off topic much; How about that there stoned virus! Lol.
    Hey, gore, you must have deja vu?............... can you suggest six numbers between 1 and 49 (no repeats) for our National Lottery.

    Stoned is the only virus I ever had on one of my machines that I didn't launch myself.

    It was an IBM PCXT with twin 5.25" drives and a 10Mb (yeah! megabytes) HDD and booted DOS 3.3

    My brother-in-law sent the virus on some 5.25" floppies with WordPerfect or WordStar on them (I forget which).

    If you cannot do someone any good: don't do them any harm....
    As long as you did this to one of these, the least of my little ones............you did it unto Me.
    What profiteth a man if he gains the entire World at the expense of his immortal soul?

  8. #8
    I have not used an anti-virus in at least 8 years. Nor do I use a "windows" software firewall. That said for the better part of the last 4 years ive only used Linux at home. So you could argue that it was only 4+ years on windows without an antivirus:P

    I have been dual-booting Linux and Windows 7 for the last 4 months... primarily because the cellular 3G internet modem i have works significantly better in windows and most of what i do is online. (i dont have highspeed cable or dsl any more). I still do not have a antivirus installed on Windows. From 2003 to 2007 i contracted 1 virus in windows, that I was able to literally disable and remove on my own without any other tools.

    My brothers on the other hand... seems like they are getting serious viruses every 6 months... even with Anti-viruses installed. Get regular support calls from them LOL

    So i feel quite confident in my own abilities. As you can see ive been a member of this site for 9-10 years now... mostly inactive but ive been "into" computer security for longer than that. And like i said in that time I have had 1 windows virus that was really quite minor. just messed with the tcp/ip stack+settings. I do monitor my connections quite closely though... So i know what applications are accessing the internet and why. Im not just saying that I havent "noticed" a virus

    That doesnt mean im not susceptible... theres always a possibility of getting a worm or virus through no fault of my own. You can potentially get a worm just by being connected to the net that takes advantage of a flaw in your OS.
    Geoff

  9. #9
    AO BOFH: Luser Abuser BModeratorFH gore's Avatar
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    I know of a bunch of people who do this stuff. I kinda wish Catch22 was still logging in. He would be all over this thread. Catch was a Windows Admin who was DAMN good at what he did. I have to say, that out of all the pro Windows people we have on AntiOnline, Catch was one of the few I respected at all.

    He'd be in this thread, mostly because he does this. In fact, he takes it a step farther than this and doesn't install ALL patches too.

    I remember one day we were talking, and he was telling me his uptime on his NT Server, which he was still running even though most of his stuff was now 2000. Well, he pointed out a patch, and said "I don't have to reboot yet. This is only going to affect you if you aren't blocking port 139. Guess I can add yet another patch so my list of don't have to install it!"

    I realized what he meant; He only installed patches that he actually required. Most people, would install ALL patches. If they don't, they generally have a reason; Such as the patch is going to break something required.

    And then, that's special case. This guy just flat out didn't install patches unless it was something big he couldn't prevent himself; Like for example; The one we were discussing, was a Patch Released by Microsoft, and in the KB, it said that all Computers were at risk, and to install the patch right away, and, it said how it worked; Basically, someone would knock on port 139, do something else, and boom, you had control.

    He had no intention of installing it though; He ran a Firewall that block that port. He said he wasn't bringing a machine down to install a patch that would only affect him if he was not blocking it, and he was right.

    So for running AV; I do, and I install Patches on Windows. That's because I don't trust Windows to do anything right.

    I do however think if you wanted, you could VERY easily get away with not running it.

    Now, before I continue:

    Are you saying NO AV, and that's it? Or, does Spybot and the Like Count? Because Spybot can find Trojans and ****, and so can other Spyware and Malware scanners, so technically, you'd still be safe, just not AS safe.

    Do you run anything for spyware and the like?

    If you pop open a Windows Shell (PowerShell) and the DOS Prompt (CMD.exe) and directly edit the Policy Windows has at the core, you could prevent half of the **** that infects people, right there.

    I know by setting up the Windows Installation in a different way, where you basically don't use C: as the main drive, and change where Programs get installed to, a lot of Viruses won't even work anyway because they exect System32, and a lot of other things, to be in that location.

    So you can "break" a Virus by simply changing HOW you install.
    Kill the lights, let the candles burn behind the pumpkins’ mischievous grins, and let the skeletons dance. For one thing is certain, The Misfits have returned and once again everyday is Halloween.The Misfits FreeBSD
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    SuSE Linux
    Slackware Linux

  10. #10
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    I would say that the first thing to bear in mind is that a workplace desktop/server environment is very different from a private home environment.

    I have never been in a workplace where MS patches were applied without being tested first.

    Also, I have never been in a workplace where there wasn't an AV in place. Not that they did any particular good as far as I could tell, they were there to cover the asses of IT management.

    I am sure that it will come as no surprise to many that the majority of senior corporate executives have little idea of computer security but they have heard of firewalls and AV products. It would be very career limiting if you got bitten and didn't have one in place?

    From a home viewpoint it is wise to update if only because the first question level 1 support will ask is have you applied all your OS updates. And that also applies to products that have nothing to do with MS.

    gore has sort of raised a question regarding what exactly is meant by an "AV" product, given that the majority of malware attacks these days are technically not by "viruses"?

    Developing on that point, I would ask if we are talking about interactive protection, periodic on demand scanning, or both?
    If you cannot do someone any good: don't do them any harm....
    As long as you did this to one of these, the least of my little ones............you did it unto Me.
    What profiteth a man if he gains the entire World at the expense of his immortal soul?

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