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  1. #21
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    Hmmm,we seem to have lost the plot here?

    Unless I am mistaken, this thread is about the security of home PCs and has absolutely nothing to do with servers, Apache or anything like that.

    In the context of home PCs, Windows is the operating system, and the one that is targeted by those criminals who go after home PCs. They ignore any other OS on the grounds of its insignificance and obscurity.

    Cybercriminals are nothing if not percentage players

    As for XP, I have always given my customers a streamlined CD and taped up the old one marked "do not use: obsolete".

    I guess Shay is quite correct in the context of home or SOHO customers, although his experiences have obviously been different from mine, living in a very small town (I could walk anywhere in 30 minutes or less).
    If you cannot do someone any good: don't do them any harm....
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  2. #22
    Only african to own a PC! Cider's Avatar
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    If you go online without a antivirus installed, it takes abot 15 seconds to become infected!
    What crap is this?

    I am 150 % positive you read the article with an XP sp1 machine was infected in no time surfing around.

    EDIT: I have to argue with you guys here. If you dont know what you are doing then atleast run some sort of AV, dont say its useless. Its useless for you and I that are accustomed to the interwebz and IT best prac in general but for the masses , AV should be installed.
    Last edited by Cider; June 6th, 2012 at 03:08 PM.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nihil;963265

    I guess [COLOR=DarkOrchid
    Shay[/COLOR] is quite correct in the context of home or SOHO customers, although his experiences have obviously been different from mine, living in a very small town (I could walk anywhere in 30 minutes or less).

    I moved from a area with about a 3.5 million population a few years ago. When i retired.

    If you want to experiment , install XP, no Service packs, and hit the internet. Be sure to hook up directly to the modem.

  4. #24
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    Its really not a matter of running AV or not. Honestly, it all depends on what sites you frequent. I have a client that only frequents like 4 sites. Older gentlemen, not too computer savvy. Complained about some strange issues he was having with windows which sounded like virus activity. Guy bought the computer from best buy like 4 years ago and had an outdated norton trial that came with the computer ( yea that 60 day trial they give you when you first buy a new computer). He was running Vista, semi updated. He had a total of 2 virii. Nothing major at that. On the other hand I've had clients running windows 7 and antivirus software and still manage to get virii. Needless to say they like the seedy parts of the net. Antivirus software only works as good as the user allows it to.

    A good router and some common sense is really all the security you need. Antivirus software is for peace of mind. If you need to do something personal and private, get your hands on a linux live cd. Ubuntu is super easy to learn.

  5. #25
    AO BOFH: Luser Abuser BModeratorFH gore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nihil View Post
    Hmmm,we seem to have lost the plot here?

    Unless I am mistaken, this thread is about the security of home PCs and has absolutely nothing to do with servers, Apache or anything like that.
    Oh come on Nihil, you know I can't let that just be I read someone saying that a Computer, NOT what TYPE, would be infected in seconds. See, it's not as simple as "Well there aren't that many people on home Computers who use anything other than Windows".

    I think you know that. In fact, I'll go as far as saying that if I make a statement you agree with, I MIGHT just change the whole thing;

    Are we talking about the average idiot user who can't install Software themselves? Or do you mean ANY user who can install their own software, and maybe even updates the thing, but isn't "Advanced" or something?

    You have to remember that making a statement like that, is pretty bold considering just how far things go in this world. Even if we ONLY talk about users sitting home with a Windows PC, there are still a couple hundred different TYPES of users.

    Now, if you meant ONLY the guy who thinks he needs a computer, and knows nothing about them, and he doesn't do anything with it other than download his pron movies like "hotgirl.mpg.exe" yea, he's going to get infected like a hooker on 7 mile. And for those of you who've never been to Detroit, 7 Mile is a place you don't want to get lost. You won't hear any Banjos or anal rape stories like West Virginia, but you might hear gun shots, and never see cops because they aren't stupid enough to go down there.

    I have a friend of mine, and we go down to Detroit a lot. Things are cheaper there. It's funny because on the way there, you'll see cops everywhere. But once you hit 8 Mile or so, Cops get more and more rare. 10 minutes after 8 Mile, you won't see a Cop period. In fact a friend of mine was sitting in a Coffee Place one day drinking Coffee and while he was inside, there was a whole table of Police Officers.

    The reason I'm going off topic to tell this, is because I made a joke that might not make sense, but it's really funny, and this story too, is really REALLY funny, so bare with me a sec; Anyway, the table of Cops, there was around 8 or 12 Cops sitting there, having Coffee, and juts in general, relaxing. I saw at least 8 though. Gun shots went off at one point, and everyone looked around to see where they were coming from. After that, we all looked at the cops like "OK, gonna go check that out?" And they didn't move.

    My friend said "Hey, umm....Aren't you guys gonna go check that out?" And they said "No, we're not getting shot, would YOU?"....

    So that may give you an idea of not only how Detroit has quite a reputation for murder and violence, and, why we have that reputation. I live about a half hour away or so from there, and where I live, we DO have Violence and stuff, but not like that. Once you get to about 9 Mile or so, it's actually a little safer. Mind you no gas station has a public restroom at that area, but they do once you hit Saint Clair County. Which is where I live. (If you saw the movie 8 Mile with Eminem, he says at one point when he gets back with His Mom, that he can't say he's from Motown, because he's back in the 810 now, which, 810 is MY area code)

    Anyway, my point there, is that I don't think you should lump every home PC user into one category, because there ARE the run of the mill idiots who get infected, but, there ARE people who have home Computers running Windows who also are gamers, who generally know a little more than those idiots, and then, you have the "Professionals" who work with Computers all day long. They may know how to install their own software for their jobs, and maybe figure out a few things here and there, but they still don't know a damn thing about installing an OS.

    Then, you have the "Power User" who customizes things, DOES know they need to watch their backs online, and installs AV, a Firewall, and runs a Scan for Malware. They might not be able to figure everything out, but they can generally keep themselves MORE safe than the idiot who opens executable movies and pictures.

    So you see, you aren't going to just lump every person running Windows at home in one shot. That's my point, and that's a fact as well.

    In the context of home PCs, Windows is the operating system, and the one that is targeted by those criminals who go after home PCs. They ignore any other OS on the grounds of its insignificance and obscurity.

    Cybercriminals are nothing if not percentage players
    Sort of. I've met and talked with some of the biggest online *****s imaginable. They DO generally want more bang for their buck, but that is sort of like saying "Every person alive uses Coupons".

    Before saying anything about that statement, think about it; A Coupon is like trying to make the most out of what you have. If you have 10 dollars, and you're in need of something, and a Coupon lets you hit two for the price of one, you'll take it. Now, if you have 20 dollars, or 10,000 dollars, are you REALLY worried about coupons?

    I've never seen a Coupon for Louis Cognac, and at 5,000 dollars a bottle, you'd kind of want one. I'm trying to make this distinction between expensive and bang for your buck, because hat percentage game, can apply to economics the same way it does to cyber crime, and I think I may have it now and you may know what I mean by that, but my point in this, is that you can't just make a statement that everyone is the same.

    I too have Windows, and I have AVG free on it. I've not found anything with it mind you, but I installed it as a precaution.

    I also have Spybot on there. And I update.

    It's times like this I miss catch being a member here. He'd totally back me up. Remember him? Windows User, totally elitist about it? Somehow we actually got along.

    As for XP, I have always given my customers a streamlined CD and taped up the old one marked "do not use: obsolete".
    There's companies here still using it.
    I guess Shay is quite correct in the context of home or SOHO customers, although his experiences have obviously been different from mine, living in a very small town (I could walk anywhere in 30 minutes or less).
    Here a lot of business places are using Linux now. Even I was surprised to be at home Depo, Lowes, and Target, and see KDE running on their POS terminals AND the PCs they use to show customers how flooring might look, and other machines.

    The book store we have here too is now using Unix instead of XP. Which is nice; I guess they finally read one of the books I asked them to order for me.

    This post is longer than I wanted to go with it but I doubt my point would have gotten across if I'd have simple said what I wanted to say. And the page and a half hooker joke I wasn't letting go of that's comedic gold.

    I WILL point out that I'm the only person still on AntiOnline who's ever put his money where his mouth is, and posted his IP address with a "bring it" comment. Actually, come to think of it, I think only Nihil has been here long enough that he might remember at one point, I hosted a little mini competition, and posted my IP, made an account, and let everyone take a shot at me. No one got in, or even managed to do anything, though one jack ass DID DDoS me, but that was about it.

    I intentionally turned off my Firewall that day and watched. Good times. Too bad these new members say things like "Apache and PHP are an auto back door" even though neither are installed by default on ANY OS on earth and wouldn't ever have the balls to try that out
    Kill the lights, let the candles burn behind the pumpkins’ mischievous grins, and let the skeletons dance. For one thing is certain, The Misfits have returned and once again everyday is Halloween.The Misfits FreeBSD
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  6. #26
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    Opensuse also allows you to setup a Vanilla webserver type configuration during initial setup/Installation.


    Also i had a good chuckle about the whole No AntiVirrii 15 seconds till infection Post.

  7. #27
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    I thought that was the 5 Second rule?

  8. #28
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    Is it fine though when i drop a cookie onto the floor,then when i pick it up i use the cat's furr to wipe it clean?

    all within 15seconds?

    Or should i use Protection so i don't get virrii in my systems?

  9. #29
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    Hmmmm,

    I'd LOVE to hear any of you pop up with something saying anything other than "Windows just wasn't designed right and EVERY version in use today is STILL based on a POS called NT written mainly by a jack off from VMS which sucks too"
    OK mate, then I will, what you are saying is the totally biased garbage you keep trolling us with every few months

    1. Windows isn't an operating system, it is a registered trademark/marketing tool.
    2. NT isn't an operating system, it is a registered trademark/marketing tool.
    3. The guy from the VMS team had nothing to do with the technical development, and he didn't "mainly write it". Hell, have you seen how much code there is? if it were one guy he would still be writing!

    Microsoft doesn't invent, it buys and/or steals. It is based on marketing, not technology.

    The guy from VMS was brought in as a figurehead token for marketing reasons. VMS was the premier manufacturing and process control OS of its day, and Microsoft were using that as a marketing lever because they were trying to get deeper into the corporate marketplace and (hopefully, servers).

    Nobody real used Unix back then..........and I know because I was there.

    Unix came later, when Microsoft were trying to break into the market; this guy was supposed to appeal to the decision makers of the day who would be more familiar with VMS. The VMS guy would have had little or no technical input as he came from an era of mainframes/midi-computers and dumb terminals..............there were no "servers" as such, back then, or desktop PCs.

    You are very precise when it comes to the history of Unix, perhaps you should be equally so with other operating systems? ............... although in the case of Microsoft, your first problem would be actually identifying one.

    Basically, Microsoft have had one OS and that is MS DOS, which they bought-in. Anything else has been "and this is what our marketing guys think we can make money out of next", or "life after DOS, episode 1, 2, 3, ....."

    Two big clues for you to consider:

    1. Where is the consistency in the MS product timeline and content?

    2. Where is the technical and academic literature that true operating systems generate over time? [I don't include "dummies guides to" in that category]

    Now do you see what I mean? ..........it looks much more like a trial and error and what can we sell? approach, than true design and development.

    That's Microsoft , which is why it was so successful in an era of antediluvian corporations pursuing 1960's business models.
    Last edited by nihil; June 8th, 2012 at 09:55 PM.
    If you cannot do someone any good: don't do them any harm....
    As long as you did this to one of these, the least of my little ones............you did it unto Me.
    What profiteth a man if he gains the entire World at the expense of his immortal soul?

  10. #30
    AO BOFH: Luser Abuser BModeratorFH gore's Avatar
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    Did you REALLY just say I troll? Come on man you've known me a DECADE. You know by now that if I wanted to do that I'd push WAY more buttons than that man. I'm going to assume you are either having a bad day and just didn't want that button pushed right now, or, have forgotten I AM a button pusher who is merely screwing around, having a little fun here, and, of course, generating a discussion since I'm personally just tired of the usual tech support questions we normally get. (For real though if that DID bother you that much, send me a PM and let me know what was up, and I'll be more than willing to take some time after work tonight and see if we can't just work that out too.)
    Kill the lights, let the candles burn behind the pumpkins’ mischievous grins, and let the skeletons dance. For one thing is certain, The Misfits have returned and once again everyday is Halloween.The Misfits FreeBSD
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