Should Gary McKinnon be tried in the US

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Thread: Should Gary McKinnon be tried in the US

  1. #1
    AO Guinness Monster MURACU's Avatar
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    Should Gary McKinnon be tried in the US

    Hi everyone.
    Just wonder what are your opinions on this? Should he be extradited to the states or should he be tried in England. Also what do you think this represents for the UK. Here is the latest in the story.

    UK hacker 'should be extradited'

    Mr McKinnon could face a lengthy jail sentence in the US
    UK hacker Gary McKinnon should be recommended for extradition to the US, a district judge has ruled.
    The decision means Mr McKinnon will face trial in America for what the US has called "the biggest military hack of all time".
    Although he has admitted hacking US military networks, Mr McKinnon said he was motivated by curiosity not malice.
    The final decision on whether he should be sent to the US for trial rests with the home secretary.

    Hack attack
    The decision was given at Bow Street Magistrates' Court in London and ends three years of uncertainty for Mr McKinnon.
    Speaking outside the court after hearing the decision Mr McKinnon said: "It went as expected and now the appeals process can now start."
    Karen Todner, Mr McKinnon's solicitor, said: "We're obviously very disappointed with the judgement that was given this morning. We're proposing to appeal this to the Secretary of State, and if we're still refused we will then appeal to the High Court for a decision to allow Gary to be tried here as a British citizen."

    Mr McKinnon was first arrested in 2002 by the UK's National Hi-Tech Crime Unit for hacking into a series of computer networks used by the US Army, Navy, Air Force, and Department of Defense.

    The US in its case for extradition said Mr McKinnon caused more than $700,000 (£375,235) of damage while exploring the computer networks at various US military institutions.
    It said one attack at the Earle Naval Weapons Station took place soon after September 11, 2001 made it impossible to use critical systems. The US Department of Justice said it took a month to get systems working in the aftermath of this attack.

    Mr McKinnon has admitted that he spent almost two years exploring these networks but has said he was motivated by a search for what he called "suppressed technology".
    In a recent BBC interview, Mr McKinnon said he had got close to getting pictorial evidence of technologies that could be of huge benefit to everyone but the US government was not releasing.
    In numerous interviews about the case, Mr McKinnon has resisted attempts to portray him as a hacking mastermind. By contrast he said he was a "bumbling hacker" that exploited the lax security policies of the US military.
    One base hacked kept US warships supplied with food and munitions
    Speaking after the hearing ended, he said: "My intention was never to disrupt security. The fact that I logged on with no password showed there was no security to begin with."
    Ms Todner said she was worried that any sentence Mr McKinnon received in the US would be "disproportionate" to the scale of the offences he committed.
    "There is power under the Computer Misuse Act to charge him here and he could stand trial here," said Ms Todner. "In fact, had that happened he probably would have been tried, served his sentence and have been released by now"
    If tried and found guilty in the US, Mr McKinnon could face decades in jail and fines totalling millions of dollars.
    \"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.\"
    \"The reason we are so pleased to find other people\'s secrets is that it distracts public attention from our own.\"
    Oscar Wilde(1854-1900)

  2. #2
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    Sounds incocent but I do not believe him. Besides who is to say he wasn't working for MI6?


    Oops, wait I was just curious. Yeah that's it. I am inclined based on what I have read to just say, leave him to the UK courts.
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  3. #3
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    He should be tried in the jurisdiction where he lives.
    The implications of extraditing him are enormous and
    frightening. If I go on the internet and post on a forum
    that Mohammad Sucks, should I be extradited to Iran?
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Deeboe's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by rcgreen
    If I go on the internet and post on a forum that Mohammad Sucks, should I be extradited to Iran?
    Of course not!! If you did, that would not be an attack on any country.

    What he did was a direct attack on the United States. All US hatred aside, what he did should be considered an act of war.

    I can't see a single reason why he shouldnt be extradited to the US. If you think otherwise, it is because your vision is clouded by your political views of the US.

    -Deeboe
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
    - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

    http://tazforum.**********.com/

  5. #5
    AO Guinness Monster MURACU's Avatar
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    I can't see a single reason why he shouldnt be extradited to the US. If you think otherwise, it is because your vision is clouded by your political views of the US.
    Besides the fact that this one of the more narrow minded posts i have seen in cosmos in a while here are a couple of reasons why.
    1) Arrested in 2002/3 in the uk. Probably because the administration wants to score some browny points showing how thought they are on computer crime and they just dint want to take the risk of putting an americain citizen on trial.
    2) Up to recently the us give no proof of a crime being committed. That is more a problem with the agreement between the UK and the US. The US can demand an extradition form the UK without presenting proof of a crime. As far as i can tell they have still not presented any proof of his crimes.
    Have to go eat so will finish this when i come back.
    \"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.\"
    \"The reason we are so pleased to find other people\'s secrets is that it distracts public attention from our own.\"
    Oscar Wilde(1854-1900)

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    surprised that this is seen as an ``act of war'' by a homicidal american with a Sun Tzu quote as a signature?

    no.

    i'm glad someone whose vision is clear and free from political views on the US isn't a US politician. the last thing we need is another ``War on x''.

    edit

    Originally posted here by Deeboe

    I can't see a single reason why he shouldnt be extradited to the US.
    then obviously, you don't know your ``enemy''.

    aaah yes. i do appreciate a bit of irony from time to time.
    Hmm...theres something a little peculiar here. Oh i see what it is! the sentence is talking about itself! do you see that? what do you mean? sentences can\'t talk! No, but they REFER to things, and this one refers directly-unambigeously-unmistakably-to the very sentence which it is!

  7. #7
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    If I didn't think the British would handle it in a fair manner I may think otherwise. If the US feels so strongly about it they can present evidence in a court within the United Kingdom.

    //EDIT on the same token if this was a US person hacking into the UK parliment and stealing files of the Home Secretary that would piss off some peeps over there too, who would probably think the same thing as some "homocidal americans" think.
    West of House
    You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
    There is a small mailbox here.

  8. #8
    AO Guinness Monster MURACU's Avatar
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    The biggest problem I have with the extradition is that it took the States a couple of years to decide that they felt strongly enough about his “crimes” to want his extradition. To me, as I said, it seems it is more politically motivated than judicially motivated. Also the case being presented by the US doesn’t seem totally credible. A month to get a critical military system back up and running after a couple of files being deleted?
    For me he was physically in England when he committed the crimes, so he should be tried and judged in England. Just like in every other case concerning computer crime, the person was tried in the country in which they were arrested.
    \"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.\"
    \"The reason we are so pleased to find other people\'s secrets is that it distracts public attention from our own.\"
    Oscar Wilde(1854-1900)

  9. #9
    AO's Resident Redneck The Texan's Avatar
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    He committed a crime AGAINST the USA it doesnt matter where it happened, it was against the US so he needs to be tried by the US.
    Git R Dun - Ty
    A tribe is wanted

  10. #10
    Senior Member Deeboe's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by The Texan
    He committed a crime AGAINST the USA it doesnt matter where it happened, it was against the US so he needs to be tried by the US.
    That is exactly right!!!!

    P.S., I've never been called homicidal american before. I'll have to change my business card.

    -Deeboe
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
    - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

    http://tazforum.**********.com/

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