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November 21st, 2007, 03:58 PM
#31
This was referring to XP actually .... but good news! I got your package with the CD and floppy today! Thank you so much, I can now just use these utilities
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November 21st, 2007, 05:16 PM
#32
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November 22nd, 2007, 02:58 PM
#33
LOL, sorry about messing up the original post, I've more or less restored it to the original format!
I'll check whether martin was specifically referring to Vista or XP or both there. However, the bulk of that statement has also been clarified by another expert in the field. I accept recovery is possible, but it would be hightly unlikely anyone would try to recover data from a fully formatted drive and a new OS install (and very expensive).
I can't argue with either Sean's or Martin's statements as they both are really off the planet with this sort of knowledge, but I'm also not saying you're wrong either.
In particular, this line is hard to refute - I wouldn't have thought someone without the knowledge could have made it up:
it's technically possible that the old data still "shines through" - as in where there used to be a 1, there's now a 0.0001, and where there used to be a 0, there's now a 0.
Last edited by Moira; November 22nd, 2007 at 03:01 PM.
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November 22nd, 2007, 04:53 PM
#34
I accept recovery is possible, but it would be hightly unlikely anyone would try to recover data from a fully formatted drive and a new OS install (and very expensive).
Wrong! relatively inexpensive or possibly even free software will do the job. I base that on my own experience and what is on the Microsoft site regarding full formatting in various versions of Windows.
Only a full format in Vista will overwrite data areas. The others just overwrite the references to the files & folders........... the actual raw data are still there and can be recovered.
It helps if you consider your disk space utilisation?
Say you take a brand new hard drive, format it, then load some applications. Then you re-format it and do the same thing. All you will do is overwrite the exact same data areas on the drive?
Now, when you start using the apps to create data, start adding new apps and so on, you are writing to a different area of the HDD? This will not be overwritten by a format and re-install of the OS, and is available for recovery.
To make your proposal work, you would need to check your diskspace utilisation first. Follow the reformat and reinstall routine THEN:
Load some very large games, demos or whatever so that you go well beyond the previous used space total. Then just delete the games etc.
Hopefully, all the recovery software will find will be the deleted games, as they should have overwritten what was previously there.
I can't say that I would like to rely on that method though. Using a proper erasing tool is far more reliable, particularly as it addresses the problem of cluster tips or slack space.
it's technically possible that the old data still "shines through" - as in where there used to be a 1, there's now a 0.0001, and where there used to be a 0, there's now a 0.
That is called "magnetic remnance", the other concept is "track overlay", which is where the heads don't write to exactly the same spot each time, so there are traces of previous data at the edges.
Yes, I too have read Dr. Peter Gutmann's paper of 1996 (" Secure Deletion of Data from Magnetic and Solid-State Memory "). It was based on research conducted previously so the hard drive technology has changed a lot since then. I would chose the word "theoretically" as opposed to "technically" because I do not think that the technology actually exists in the real World.
Sure, I have seen proof of concept exercises but they were not very good and in totally artificial environments.
The bottom line is that all you need to do is fully wipe the drive with a tool such as DBAN and you will be secure. No software recovery technique will work, which puts it out of the budgets of individuals and even police forces.
EDIT: This is a little tool I use to check out file recoverability and whether everything has actually been erased?................ it is free.
http://www.theabsolute.net/sware/dskinv.html
Be prepared for a shock!
Last edited by nihil; November 22nd, 2007 at 06:18 PM.
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November 23rd, 2007, 10:48 AM
#35
Yes a double post.
Here is a free disk defragmenter:
http://www.auslogics.com/disk-defrag/
Download and run it (Win 2000, XP, Vista only) then look at where Billy Windoze has put your data on your HDD................
I rest my case
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November 23rd, 2007, 02:54 PM
#36
I've actually got that utility. Really I can't say more until I've had a word with the people who gave me the previous information and I just haven't had time yet. But I won't forget, and in any case intend to use DBAN as you so kindly sent it.
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January 20th, 2009, 07:01 PM
#37
Originally Posted by Moira
This was referring to XP actually .... but good news! I got your package with the CD and floppy today! Thank you so much, I can now just use these utilities
I know this is an old thread, but I came across it and I think we got rather muddled because I made a fundamental mistake in the first sentence of this post - I should have said "This was referring to Vista actually".
No big deal ..... but I just thought I'd post this so the thread made a bit more sense.
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