Don't mess with Russia

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Russian special forces early today captured control of the Moscow theater where Chechen rebels had been holding 700 hostages, after a dramatic pre-dawn battle inside the building that resulted in most of the guerrillas being killed and large numbers of hostages either dead or wounded.

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Oct25.html

I have nothing but admiration for the Russians in how they handled
this incident. The Chechens do not deserve to have an independent
state, and the USA should apologize to Russia for all the irresponsible
criticism we have thrown at them over the Chechen war.

A lot of Chechens were in Afganistan with the Taliban forces.
Russia is fighting our fight on another front, defending civilization
from a new evil, more deadly than the Nazi regime of world war two.

There has been a fundamental realignment of alliances
in world politics, and we had better learn who our friends are
and which ones are laying in wait to ambush us.
:cool:

Definitely got to agree, and I think that the U.S can consider Russia a friend. It would definitely not be a good thing to have them against us, as they sure as hell aren't a weak country. Having them with us in any war (war on terrorism?) would help us. I believe Russia is after peace in a sense, as well as us, or they wouldn't have done what they did to get back the Theatre from the Chechans.

Mess with the best. Die like the rest.

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more deadly than the Nazi regime of world war two

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I really have to question that affirmation! Ok maybe more american civilians got killed on September 11th then during WW2 (not even sure of that). But casualties wise, WW2 is yet to be surpassed by any war and I don't think we will see such a deadly war soon.

I feel Russia could be a valuble ally,but the fact of the matter is,they have to be willing to back us in the war on terror.Russia has always had their own way of doing things,and doesn't like to rely on allies to help them(not the worst idea in the world).Russia has proven throughout history that defense can often be the best offense.It's very hard to destroy a country if you can't effectively invade them...just ask Hitler.

I wouldn't go so far as to call Russia a friend though.Not to say it wouldn't be beneficial to both the US and Russia,but I think they hesitate to be our friend because so many nations have grown dependant on our technology and rescources and they don't want to be dependant on anyone but themselves(another smart move on their part).There is a long standing rivalry between the US and Russia that remains from the cold war,and needs to be eliminated before we can call each other friends.As horrible as the war on terror is and will be,I think this very well may be the thing that breaks the rest of the ice left over from the cold war.

Russia can never be completely independandt because they can't grow enough food for their entire population. That and the fact that Russia doesn't really have that much money as a nation, which is evident by the US having to build half of the parts Russia promised for international space station.

Russia would be a valuable ally though, they're very resiliant.

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Originally posted by Rcgreen
I have nothing but admiration for the Russians in how they handled
this incident.

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More than 90 hostages died because of the Russian raid. At least half of the hostages are wounded, lots of them unconscious and seriously ill, because of a yet unknown nerve-gas the Russians used.
I have to agree a raid was the only logical solution, but Russian troops have a tradition of ending hostage situations with lots of victims. This time, the Russians have 'won' (although I think it's highly disrescpectful to speak of 'winning' here with 90 dead hostages).
What's so 'special' about troops who kill 90 hostages anyways?

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Originally posted here by rcgreen
The Chechens do not deserve to have an independent
state, and the USA should apologize to Russia for all the irresponsible
criticism we have thrown at them over the Chechen war.

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Irresponsible criticism? Come on, what the Russians are doing in Checheny cannot be excused. The reports coming from Checheny talks about whole people being oppressed, and because of the Twin Tower incident the whole world has forgotten about what's happening over there. The war in Checheny is a big disaster, a catastrophy, and the people living there is experiencing hell on earth.

Every responsible goverment should criticise Russia for their actions, but politics and positioning once again has left a whole people suffering under a super power.

Don't forget, the Chechen war started when Bill/Hillary was President. They did nothing, preferring to focus on Serbia. The Chechens are, and always have been, hated by the Russians. I think they saw it as an opportunity to rid themselves of the problem. I have a hunch they expected to roll in and end it quickly. Obviously, they were wrong and the people of that tiny country are and will suffer for years to come. Russia isn't going to be pushed into anything they don't want. They've always been that way and a decade of "sort of" democracy isn't enough to change them.

I just have to wonder what each one of us would have done, if we were the Grand-Poobah of a planetary superpower and some bunch of murderous radicals invaded our neighborhood, took our friends and neighbors captive and proceeded to take over our turf? Can anyone remember back to the first time some bully spit in your face or pushed one of your friends down in the mud? Come on, admit it, you didn't enter into a long drawn-out negotiation, you busted the bully's chops before he even saw it coming! As for the Russians, no i probably wouldn't trust them 100-percent, but i'd sure rather have them for an ally than anyone else in that part of the planet. And if they don't trust anyone else 100-percent, a quick look at their history for the past few hundred years might explain part of it. One thing for sure; anyone who lives in the rough (survivalist?) country that some of them do is gonna be tough as nails. Don't forget it was not too long ago that some of these same invaders left a suitcase bomb in Gorky Park. One thing is for sure; if you let little bullys poke you in the eye without being severely reprimanded, there will be more little bullys poking your eye tomorrow. Anyway, that's the way i see it. Would i have taken care of the hostage thing the same way? Maybe not with the use of the same munitions, but i definitely would have taken care of it, probably sooner than the Russians did. If you smack a stranger in the chops and he gives you a permanent limp it was obvious you picked on the wrong stranger. If you draw on a cop and he smokes you with all 13-rounds, it's your fault so don't bitch with your dying breath. If terrorists invade you and they get smoked in the process, then that's the way life goes. Maybe the next bunch of lowlifes will think twice before they invade and take hostages. For a current story of how these radicals train against civilization, check out the Asia-TImes. <offsoapboxnow>