Jupiter Media Screws AntiOnline Founder

Greetings All:

Well, after talking with several people on IRC, they suggested that I make a post about the latest happenings between Jupiter Media and myself.

As part of the agreement that we made when they purchased the site, Jupiter Media would withhold a portion of the acquisition cost until after the site was transferred to them, and they had time to do things like verify the amount of traffic that the site got. They would do the traffic verification over the course of 3 months, by measuring the number of banner impressions that the site received.

Well guess what, the site isn't getting as many banner impressions as it used to. They're blaming it on me, and are now refusing to pay me the rest of the acquisition cost that they owe me (and trust me, we're not talking about small change here).

I ask you, the members of AntiOnline, who's fault is it that AntiOnline isn't getting as many hits as it did when I had control of it? Hrmmmmm? I wonder if the fact that there aren't as many banner impressions now, as there were when I had the site, has anything to do with the following?

The fact that they still have put NO AD CODE ON OVER 2,700 pages of the site? I wonder if that would effect the ad count? Parts of the site that still contain no code include:

Security Downloads
Security Text Files
Fight-Back!
Hacker Jargon
Tools & Toys
How To Be A Hacker Profiler
Security Mail Lists
Security Certifications
Security Degrees
and others...

Their excuse? They don't know how to put ad code on those pages. Imagine, a huge publicly traded company who's revenues rely largely on advertising, doesn't know how to add banner ads to webpages. Does that make a lot of sense to anyone, because it sure as heck doesn't make a lot of sense to me. (They said that the 16 pages of documentation that I wrote up for them, on top of a half dozen phone conferences, plus the manual for vbulletin that the site runs off of, wasn't enough help. Perhaps I should have paid to have several of their employees sent to ITT Technical Institute, maybe that would have gotten them off on the right foot.)

Let's also take into consideration the fact that they removed over 20 discussion forums from appearing on the main page (something that I suggested would decrease traffic even before they did it). I wonder if that's decreased the number of discussions that have been going on, which would of course, effect traffic?

Of course, I won't even mention that fact that a ton of pages are showing up with database errors, and the fact that AntiOnline now has an UB3R-3L33T-H4X0R-L0G0 that makes the site look like a bad knock-off of hackers.com I also won't mention that fact that they've added no new features since they got the site, and no new content, unless you call those "security news" and "security products" boxes that they stuck all over hell "content". Of course, when they acquired the site, they were quick to GET RID of all sorts of features, including member subdomains, free e-mail accounts, and IRC.

They were also suppose to reimburse me for the expense of hosting the site for a month, after they purchased it. It seems that it took them that long to set up a server to move the site to. Of course, they haven't done that either (but hey, that's only a couple of grand). Hrm, they never even provided me an excuse for that one......

Oh well, I should have predicted this, but hey, what are you gonna do? AntiOnline looks like a sinking ship now, and Jupiter Media has decided that they wanted to take me down with it, apparently....

I guess now there has to be bad blood (I literally begged them not to turn thing nasty between us, but the VP of their company, who I have all of my dealings with, is an attorney, so you know how that is....) So, unfortunately the next place that I'll be seeing my friends from Jupiter Media is in court.....

hah, JupMedia doesnt even make their money, thats the sad part... they ruined the site.... AntiOnline used to be home to thousands of members, sure there were the good and the bad, but its like that in every community, they have taken down countless features of antionline, and havent posted anything new.... they dont listen to its members(which atleast JP listened to us qutie often).

this message is for JUP MEDIA ..... if you REALLY want AO back.... i suggest you let one of the old time AO members take care of ****.... add newer features..... come on... your moving the site back instead of moving it forward......

So get your **** together, and dont be a bunch of corporate morons that will be known as the ones who turned a goldmine into a pile of dirt.........

JP.... take these kids to school bro :) hahaha

YICS will dominate!

Hey Hey JP, Good to see ya around. Sounds like their being a bunch of bastards. Like I mentioned in Dome's post, if they provided me with a sub-domain I was willing to take care of the expense and maintance of an mail server, however they don't care about the community. Just about making money. They refused to provide me with a single subdomain with which I could have provided email for the AO community. We are no longer a community, we are a way for them to fill their pockets and at the same time we sit back and let them screw us over. They are a pathetic excuse for a business. I couldn't help but laugh when I read that they didn't know how to add ad code to those pages, that's hillarious. Anyways Yeah I just wanted to show my support and mention the email thing again, because I think that's pure bullshit on their part. Nothing but an attempt at screwing over their "community" once again.

They don't give two shits about this site, and let everything steadily decline, while the sit back and watch the traffic. I wonder whose fault it is that people started getting pissed off and blocking ads when they put flash Micro$hit ads that took up literally the top half of every page, along with all of that enterprise IT crap. I always supported AO and clicked on the little ads on the top of the page lots, but once JupMed got a hold of AO and made the ads for Microsoft and enlarged them 10 times fold, it started to get annoying. When people are coming here for the first time, they used to notice that this site was different, it wasn't covered in huge flashing ads and its sole purpose wasn't to make money and line its pockets, but now AO has changed, significantly, of course the traffic is now going to change. Again with removing GCC and the other forums off the main page, this might get more security discussions going, but most people just want to post about useless crap and feel right at home. They removed GCC from the main page, and with it removed a lot of traffic. Also without the IRC server any more, which they took down because they couldn't blast ads all over, people do not have a sponsored IRC place to enter, and talk about AO or just answer questions to new people here, which would increase their chances of them coming back and the overall hit rankings of the site.

So surprise! You changed the site and degraded the hell out of a lot of stuff, removing key features and blasting ads all over the place while removing IRC, AO subdomains/e-mail, and not adding new features, and the hits changed, wow, I wonder why, maybe it was JP's fault, must have been.
(I think them blaming JP is on just about the same level as fat people suing McDonald's)

ok...... yeah the logo definately has to go.........


here i made it easier for you

edit:
woops forgot to add someting The3ntropy reminded me.....

ok u use FTP to upload the image to lets say http://antionline.com/images/mainlogo.gif

then..... you edit the index.php and add in
http://antionline.com/images/mainlogo.gif

ok do we got it?!?!?! good boys and girls...... thats it for HTML 101, if you need further assistants call me at 1-888-I-AM-DUMB

JP! Is this the end just after my begining?? I haven't been here all that long, but I've heard a little bit about 'trouble' floating around for you (I suppose after reading that, a 'bit of trouble' is an understatement).

It sounds like those guys are typical corporate *******s. (excuse my french)

I don't really have enough background information on the situation to comment any further, but just know that, as the founder and father of Antionline, you brough this place into the living world of cyberspace.

And for that - I, and many others, will be eternally grateful.

Thanks, and know that my support is with you....


D.

MEMO:

TO: All Jup Media Employees

FROM: Joe Schmuckateli, VP Corporate Greed


RE: Aquisition of Antionline


All---As we have gotten JP to agree to a 'trial' period to verify site traffic before paying him all the money we owe him, it is up to all of you to totally ruin the site. This will drive traffic down to a crawl releasing us from responsibility to pay. Once we have screwed him out of every penny we can, we will bring back all the features we eliminate and make a big P.R. hoo-haa about listening to the user. This may have a *slight* impact on total traffic, but nothing compared to the money we'll save by not paying JP.

You know the drill people! Make it happen.

Sincerely,
Joe Schmuckateli

There are alternatives for those who may wish to boycott AO or are just looking for a better / different community that may have more to offer.

One is Security-Forums.com. It is exceptionally similar to AO but without the AP's.

Another is my site. About.com is owned by a competitor of Jupiter Media- Primedia, but I control the Forums. I can't really add features and such though which are some of the prime complaints here. Nor can I provide subdomains or email, etc. I can however create whatever forums and sub-forums I choose to segregate the discussions.

Here are links to both:

Security-Forums.com

About.com Internet / Network Security Forums

Hey JP when do you start a new place for us?

securitytalk.com????????????

I imagine JP has a non-compete clause. Although if JupMedia breached the contract maybe thats null and void.

Perhaps there is a deeper conspiracy. Maybe JupMedia let the site go and took away features and didn't add new features BECAUSE they were in their probation phase with JP before paying him.

Maybe after they weasle out of paying JP what he's owed they'll turn around and add all kinds of features and options that make the site great. Perhaps its all a ploy to save a buck or two.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by tonybradley
I imagine JP has a non-compete clause. Although if JupMedia breached the contract maybe thats null and void

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They can t compete!!!!!

When you start a new place and let someone else own it for the duration the contract say s,i see no problem!

they are just getting like M$ **** ppl..AO has to be moderated by Senior Members and JM must place some one who can understand the community and can work for the betterment of the community....than just to make money....it is extremely imp...money is to be after the community interst only........cimmunity is more imp...its a very simple thing...these ppl must listen to senior members and i dint ever knew senior members and JP was never consulted regarding decision abt AO........its extremely sad.....

If you post here you get GREEEEEEEENIES

Ahhhh corprate america strikes again. leave it to a large company to take something good and ***** it up. I dont know anything about marketting or that type of stuff but what good does it do to attract new members when you ignore the members you have. pretty soon somebody will become the next JP and start thier own site like this one and all the "real" members, the ones who actualy care, will just say to hell with it and migrate over there. i wasnt here very long before the change over but this place isnt half the site it used to be

I'm not usually one to advocate lawsuits, seems like there are already enough going on as it is, but I can identify with the need to get paid, as I've been ripped off for a decent bit of money myself. Sorry to see things come down to this, and good luck to JP on getting this sorted out.

It seems to me jupitermedia are lying out their asses. They are VERY capable of putting banners/whatever on a vbulletin-based site. As an example, http://forums.enterpriseitplanet.com/ is owned by these scumbags, and has all the stuff they claim they can't do. So what's the problem here?

I can't wait until either intmon (or whatever the hell his name is) or the other dude posts... I'm curious what they have to say for themselves... other than that I'm out of words...

Eh, Jup Media. I don't know how you could ruin such a place as this. As you could see, when you purchsed the site, and took away much of the content (IRC mostly), how could you really expect to have the same hit count? Come on! Does your companies CEO even know one HTML Tag? Does he have any idea how to get your site into the top spot on search domains? Do any of you? It seems that since you have taken over this site, it has gone to hell. I suggest you at least put back the original forums to display on the front page. I guarantee that would increase your site traffic alone. Bah, It really pisses me off to see yet another corporation take something that was good, and screw it up. Bah, and to blame it on JP? Typical. Someone has to take the blame... Why not pin it on JP.

Jupitermedia... I say congratulations to you. You have yet again screwed up.

I bid you, and this community... a farewell..... I'm out......

TO JP: Goodluck guy, I'm sure I will see you around all the usual spots. Take these bastards for what their worth.

TO Everyone else (except JupMedia) : Its been fun while it lasted. I've had some great times here and have learned much from the community. I have also taught much in the community. I have seen this community at its peak, and at its low several times before. But this is it. I'm gone... To all my friends and commrades, you can still find me if you know where to look. I look forward to meeting with you all again, under better circumstances.





*xmaddness erases this site from his memory never to return again....

Quote:

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Originally posted here by Beryllium9
It seems to me jupitermedia are lying out their asses. They are VERY capable of putting banners/whatever on a vbulletin-based site. As an example, http://forums.enterpriseitplanet.com/ is owned by these scumbags, and has all the stuff they claim they can't do. So what's the problem here?

---

This highlights that if your going to tell fibs on the Net, then your gonna get caught out. People aren't dumb (well, some exceptions) and they travel around. A little bit of research and -vola- we find out they can do it.

JM - Tsk Tsk Tsk.

Good investigative work, Beryllium9!

Quote:

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Originally posted here by ZomBieMann77
Ahhhh corprate america strikes again

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Corporate anywhere. The same in the UK. The key word is "profitability" There is an attitude that is prevalent in large organisations, that if it does'nt make a profit, run it down, or shut it down, regardless of employees or anyone that depends on the particular service provided. various groups have been saying for years, "hit them where it hurts", but I'm afraid the people have never hit any of them hard enough

This was really the place to be when online. Although I just recently became a member I knew the site already long before. I don't wanna leave the community but if things don't get better I'll leave anyway :(. Jupiter Media will probably turn one of the greatest sites into some crappy thing filled with banners, at least that's what I fear for.

hey got the vp's e-mail address if any on would like to e-mail him
[email protected]

Domain Name: JUPITERMEDIA.COM
Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC.
Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com
Name Server: NS1.INTERNET.COM
Name Server: NS3.INTERNET.COM
Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Updated Date: 28-mar-2003
Creation Date: 25-oct-2000
Expiration Date: 25-oct-2003

ip 63.236.73.35
Vice President and General Counsel, Jupitermedia, 23 Old Kings Highway South, Darien, CT 06820; (203) 662-2800; fax: (203) 655-4686; [email protected]

i've been a member of AO for quite a long time, although i haven't interacted as much, I've been able to watch AO evolve all the time. It's had all these great features that other security forums don't have. For example the indepth updates on the main page, the quick reply feature and the amazingly worked Anti-Point system. JP has put alot of this hard work into this site and it really does seem that JM has made this site go downhill. I took a break from AO when JP wanted to sell this site and when i came back i noticed the look of everything had changed. But there hasn't been any positive change this in community at all. JM hasn't done anything good for this community.

How can they blame JP?? It wasn't until they took over AO that hits started to fall - what do they expect?
would mcdonalds still accept to attract as many people if they stopped selling french fries?? Ok so you can still get burgers....hey they might even wrap it up in a different bag but you can't take away things (even if they are not the most important) and still expect to attract the same volume of people!! How many regular visitors did they lose as a result of closing IRC?
According to the rumour (and feel free to correct me on this) they ceased AO IRC cause the cost of maintaining it outwayed the advantages.....hmm so what about those people who are now supplying their own servers for use by those who used to attend the old AO server (as well as others) ???
To those people I say thank you - it is nice to see some people are still out to help others and support the community without thoughts of what is in it for them!!
Now I know it would be stupid of me to think about Jup in the same way - they are a company out to make money but one of AO's biggest attractions for me and am sure for alot more peps is the sense of community......you gotta keep that feeling going or your going to start losing more peps!!
Actually **** it - i dont care anymore.....its just a site like any other! You may own the site Jup but you dont own the people...and its the people which really make AO
Go for it run the site into the ground and wave good bye to alot of the members.....theres alot of similiar forum based sites showing up which show alot more promise now than AO - good luck JP

v_Ln

meh JP, i along with others have posted hundreds of recommendations for the site to them, usually recommendations to put things back the way they were :)

but to no effect. Im fairly sure their problem is that they dont give a **** about their users, and what the users do on the site. They have taken focus off of such things as articles, they don't seem to give a **** about tutorials, etc...

My advice to them would be to pay you now, or sell the site, because ive noticed that they don't know how to handle it.

The whole disclosure on ap assigments thing is a real winner to, not. This basically took away the whole "negative" antipoint, because no one wants to neg anyone now, realizing that they will know and worrying about revenge. its ridiculous, one of the things that originally made the site take off like it did, were the antipoints, now they **** those over, get rid of general chit chat, cosmos, etc being on the main page, and ****ing complain about hits? I honestly think they are just scamming you into not paying for it all, big corporations do **** like this all the time..

Quote:

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Originally posted here by xmaddness
Eh, Jup Media. I don't know how you could ruin such a place as this. As you could see, when you purchsed the site, and took away much of the content (IRC mostly), how could you really expect to have the same hit count? Come on! Does your companies CEO even know one HTML Tag? Does he have any idea how to get your site into the top spot on search domains? Do any of you? It seems that since you have taken over this site, it has gone to hell. I suggest you at least put back the original forums to display on the front page. I guarantee that would increase your site traffic alone. Bah, It really pisses me off to see yet another corporation take something that was good, and screw it up. Bah, and to blame it on JP? Typical. Someone has to take the blame... Why not pin it on JP.

Jupitermedia... I say congratulations to you. You have yet again screwed up.

I bid you, and this community... a farewell..... I'm out......

TO JP: Goodluck guy, I'm sure I will see you around all the usual spots. Take these bastards for what their worth.

TO Everyone else (except JupMedia) : Its been fun while it lasted. I've had some great times here and have learned much from the community. I have also taught much in the community. I have seen this community at its peak, and at its low several times before. But this is it. I'm gone... To all my friends and commrades, you can still find me if you know where to look. I look forward to meeting with you all again, under better circumstances.





*xmaddness erases this site from his memory never to return again....

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Farwell xmaddness, we'll miss you 'round here, that is, if everyone stays, and it doens't look to primising for AntiOnline anymore. This site was great, I had it set to my home pages awhile ago ... but even since Jupiter Media got ahold of it, it turned to ****.

Good luck JP, we're all with you for YICS man. And fight till the end. Don't let the evil bastards at JUP MEDIA win!

Hey JP;

I own www.triplesecurity.com
Never used it yet....
I suppose I can start someting there....
Or do I have someone to code the site ???

Since I own it and you build it....
maye the non-compete clause would not apply...
Have to ask a Lawer on that.....

/me notices how none of the new AO admins are brave enough to post here. which just further shows that they dont give a **** about their members, and are scared of JP. hHAHAHAHHAHAHA bitches ;)

come on out and play intmon, or whatever the **** your name, is, feed us some bs, or rather, make one of your usual posts.. how could you not expect people that have been here for over a year or a bit less not to back jp?

You Jupiter Media Dumb****s needs to get the **** overyourselves....People know you now own the place and dont like ya...And hey, cant say I blame them. Good for JP for taking a stand, I dont blame him. What retards do you have working for you that you cant add a god damn image for a banner. If you spent the serious money you did on this, you must have some knowledge of what you bought and how to use it. Correct me if I am wrong, but dont you own/run your site that im sure has images strewn around it. Depending on how AntiOnline has its Banner randomizer implimented, Im sure you cant be so stupid u cant figure it out. I mean....Gimme a break. You people are ****in ridiculous. Since this issue has been made more public, Im sure the currect users will now see what kinda stupid people run this place that is sure to drive away users.

Heh, JP I believe I told you from the beginning you were ****ing up selling to them, now didn't I? :P Get your ass to work on YICS (no crap about lawsuits taking up your time either) and then we all have somewhere to go that doesn't suck ass anymore :)

Oh, and I don't suppose the fact that they put those big ass MS ads that take all damn day to load on dial up on here has anything to do with it? Of course we're blocking ads now, you'd have to be an idiot not to.

Quote:

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Originally posted here by er0k
/me notices how none of the new AO admins are brave enough to post here. which just further shows that they dont give a **** about their members, and are scared of JP. hHAHAHAHHAHAHA bitches ;)

come on out and play intmon, or whatever the **** your name, is, feed us some bs, or rather, make one of your usual posts.. how could you not expect people that have been here for over a year or a bit less not to back jp?

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Give them some time.. took like 3 weeks for them to message me and say they'd look into my email offer and then I had to contact them again a week later for an answer because they had just let it drop. They all seem to be a little slow.

id say they are close to what is in deb's signature =)

Hey All;

JP does own www.securitalk.com
and www.Yoursincyberspace.com

Watch out Jupiter Media, JP will rise out of your ashes.....

Good luck JP... sue the crap out of them and take back your rightful spot at AO.

this thread would self combust if there was anymore sucking arse happening

p.s i like porn

With a name like KorpDeath who's side would you expect me to be on?

The community will stand behind the founder, as it should. Arse sucking or not, JP should get his money.

**** JupiterMedia. And now, **** AO. Hope to see you all around the net, it's been fun while it lasted.

`` what RiOtEr said ' '

lets all take a moment and think about the traffic, and hence money this thread is generating for JUPM.

p.s. i like webfilters

Hey JP how about new web site www.****jupitermedia.com with all the features we use to have here at almighty AO.

Yeah, I would like to add one thing (if it hasn't already) before I rush off to work. How can Jup Media POSSIBLY blame JP for taking the site down when HE was the one to get it where it used to be! I remember when I first began visiting this site, before I even became a member, and until Jup Media took over, it was flourishing with information and users helping eachother out. When there was an IRC, I was able to come on and ask for assistance on a problem I was having with Linux, and I always got my answer right away. Ever since Jup Media took over, IRC is gone, lots of other stuff is gone, and now instead of looking at a Member count that rose from 10 000 to 12 000 in like a month, there are no more than 300 users on whenever I check. Jup Media are the ones who ****ed everything that JP spent so much of his time and energy (and money) creating. So, you know what? Jup Media (excuse my language please) can **** themselves. WE WILL NOT FAIL. WE WILL NOT QUIT! So what if we loose a site, we are still better than Jup Media will ever be. Antionline will always be in my memories as the place that everything to do with computers has started with me. It will be a place in my memory where I can remember how helpful people are and just how awsome it was to have an international community of dedicated people offering assistance and making this cyber-world a better place. God bless JP and all the members of this site, minus anyone with Jupiter Media and all their affiliates. **** em, they did nothing but put a little obstical in our way. We can get around it no problem. Jupiter Media is nothing but a script kiddie that can't code ads. (or so they claim)

Lets not let a two-faced company made up of two-faced bullshited FUBAR'd coporate *******s take us down. Jup Media, let me tell you something, WE WILL NOT FAIL! YOU WILL! I can't wait to see the day you go under, in your own ashes.

As for JP and AO members, its been wonderful being part of this community. Thank you for all your kind support and understanding, (and even those few greens!) We will find a way, even if we have to move to another site. We will not be taken down.

Take care all AO members, and as for you JP, God Speed. (and sue them for me too! but u keep the money!)

Dave

Unfortunatly, this seems to be the trend of late in Corporate America. I have been involved in several accqusisions and my startup was bought out by a large company. I have yet to see anyone on either side of a sale / buy contract keep thier side of the bargin. I am not saying that all corps are like this, I am just stating what I have seen personaly and from others I have spoken to.
As far as Jup not knowing how to do this or that, they could be speaking the truth of just biding their time until that have what they want from AO, and then drop it. Remeber, there are two sides of an IT corporation, the execuative / money side and the technical / engineering side. In most large corporations, these two sides are at war with each other and the side who has the money....has the power. In most cases, the side with the money is the exec side. Before the buy of AO, there were no real sides. JP handled the money and the technical expertise. Since he had the money, he could make AO into what he wanted. Since there were alot less people in the orgination, everyone could be on the same sheet of music and it would be less likely that there would be the corporate politics and games going on. This is what happned at my old company and I have seen this at other small companies before they sold.
Now, after the purchase, Jup decides to make money off the site. This is a reasonable task but the exec side understands profits / loss and the bottom line. Engineers and programmers understands what needs to get done to make the site a success. The exec side wants the Sun / World and Moon without having to spend money and the Engineers understand that in order to get what they want, they will need to spend a value (x). Here is where the war begins.
How does a corp save money and get a better listing in their profits without spending money or improving their infrastructure?.....lay off people. This opens up more money that would go to salaries and gets put in the companies coffers. In the long run...this can put a company in jepordy since they are removing their core talent but execs don't see past the next quarter anyway so they don't see a problem. How does Jup save money without spending any money??.....remove functions of the site that were part of the key reasons to make it a success...IRC, Mail...etc...
Jup wants to save even more money by trying to limit the amount they need to spend on the purchase of AO. When we go buy a car, we see the price the auto dealer wants to sell it at, we haggle and make a deal of some amount. We give him the money and that is the end of it. In the world of company purchasing..there is another stage that takes place after the sale. They hold some of the money back and at a later date, they try to find some reason to keep most or all of it. I don't say this is right but it is the nature of the business.
Now, I have not seen the contracts and I am not a lawyer (IANAL). I suspect that lawyers will get invovled and hammer out a new final deal. This type of case does not deal with who is right but who has the most money. It gets to a point where one side will lose more with keeping up the fight than to just give in. Again...I don't say this is right...but it is that way things are right now. I know...I have had it happen to me several times. Look at the news....read up on SCO etc.....Contracts are never what they appear.

I hope it all works out and I will continue to support JP. Right now it seems that the best way to do that is to accept the banners....click on the damn things once in awhile..and get the traffic numbers up. Of course, even if we were to get the numbers to double ot tripple, I suspect that JUP will still say that the numbers are down and as such....JP does not get his money.

Good Luck


p.s.

sorry about the spelling...I was too angry to deal with it....:)