Homosexuality: a choice or a gene?

A simple question really, directed at the members here that have an "alternative" lifestyle. Is one born gay or is it a lifestyle choice?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a homophobe trying to stir up ****, I'm just curious. I've known several homosexuals in my life, counted most of them as friends for that matter. I've got 2 cousins that are in long-term commited homosexual relationships. But I honestly know next to nothing about homosexuals in general, hence the question I'm asking here because well, the internet...that is, sitting here behind this screen, allows a certain level of comfort when dealing with what would be a "delicate" issue in r/l.

BTW...NO FLAMES from the 'phobes....I'd prefer to see a legit discussion here...this is a quest for understanding and although I consider myself a Christian, I'd prefer not to see any bible thumping here...no arguments please as it just serves to cloud the discussion.

I, although having no idea, would say it is more or less natural.. i don't know about it being a gene, but i think it has alot to do with simply who one is, what has happened to them, what they have done, etc... I'm undecided on this really. Having no idea, i would like to hear from homosexual people what they believe...

heh...I'll clarify by saying that "gene" sounded a wee bit more sophisticated (and polite) than "are you born that way."

Well, is heterosexuality genes or a choice?

this isnt the first time ive heard this theory. and i havent done any research on it either. but from what i can remember the results were inconclusive as there was insufficient proof, and of course that means its the same as any other theory about aliens/government conspiracies,

meaning that it COULD be true and the evidence is there to support, AND deny the case. it will never be proven/disproven (at least atm).

IMO, its gene related, but you have the choice during life. something you choose and is then locked in -> the person you are going to become the rest of your life.

CTO

I think it's possible. I'm not sure though. I'll try to come at this from my own theological perspective without "bible-thumping" per se.

Allen, following our shared faith, this would seem to fall in line with the idea that the world has fallen and is in a growing state of entropy...as shown in certain things we are even being born with now. For instance, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that all us "straight" guys are born with the instinctive desire to impregnate every attractive girl we come in contact with, if I may be frank. It's not right for us to do so, but we are born that way, aren't we? Fortunately, we are creatures of free will that do not have to follow the desires we are born with...else I'd have a lot children and angry ex-girlfriends right about now.

But I guess for now, we can only ponder such things...An interesting point though. If this is indeed the case, it doesn't make our homosexual friends any different than the rest of us, cuz heck, we're all screwed up. Sure, I'm not gay, but I've got issues of my own that are no less severe, so I'm not exactly in a place to judge less the finger-pointing turns to my own sins. Let us bear with each other and figure these things out together...

Even if you exept the x/y chromazone theory, it still comes down to a life style choise. There are many cases of people who are none hetrosexual, who choose to live hetrosexual lifes.

I asked around to some of my friends who happen to be homosexuals, and got a variety of answers, most of which were that they've been gay as long as they could remember. The best and most profound answer came from a girl I know who said, "I could've fallen in love with anyone. I just happened to fall in love with a woman first." Most of them, (and I now) believe it's not genetic, it's just a choice which is influenced by their personal histories.

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it's just a choice which is influenced by their personal histories.

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What's this tell you?

It tells me that we're generally treating the opposite sex as crap. Heck, having had the love of my life just dump me right after having just professed her love to me this week, I can understand why some throw up their hands and give up on the opposite sex. I think a lot of these people are finding within the same sex what they should be able to find but can't in the opposite sex, and I find that to be a sad truth.

I think, in a manner of speaking, we're helping create them.

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The best and most profound answer came from a girl I know who said, "I could've fallen in love with anyone. I just happened to fall in love with a woman first."

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Not exactly that profound, as it doesn't deal with the question. Imo it side steps the issue. Does she mean that she could just as easily have fallen for a man. Could she fall for a man now if the current relationship comes to an end. Or has the fact she has fallen for a women made her honosexual?

Angelic woman are fickle creatures, i met one two weeks ago who was so interested in me it was scary. Made arangments to meet again, spent an hour or two in a pub, then back to her place. Bloody ex boyfriend turns up and i'm forced to leave via the back door, she phoned me this morning to ask if she can have some space to sort out her ex. I no a brush off when i get one lol.

Yeah, jinxy, I'm learning that lesson anew all the time! Mine was simply because her parents didn't like me.

AngelicKnight many of us through frustration give up on the opposite sex for a time...but that doesn't make us pick up on the same sex thing just the no sex thing... for as long as that can last.

i dont see how homosexuality can be a choice, at least not a rational one. if its not a choice than everyone should be free to be who they are. if it is a choice then we should take turns smacking them around for being so stupid.<j/k>

I could give up on the opposite sex for maybe...a day or so...maybe even two...That's about it. :D

But I agree, I didn't mean that as an excuse, just observing what might be a catalyst for some. I'm just glad I didn't turn any of my girlfriends lesbian. :D

I think it pretty much depends on how the person was raised. Because when you're born you don't exactly know who you're suppose to like male or females so you either choose on your own or your parents tell you. And Bi-sexuals would be those who are un-decided. That's how I look at it.

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I'm just glad I didn't turn any of my girlfriends lesbian

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A friend of mine years ago got engaged to a woman, within 6 weeks of he and i being posted to Germany she Dear Johned him with, "I am a lesbian and have fallen in love with someone". I don't think he ever got over that, plus the fact we all took the piss on every ocassion we could.

So what I'm seeing here is that folks who have a homosexual lifestyle are a product of their enviroment. Of course, what I'm also seeing here is a bunch of straight folks making suppositions as I don't think any of our homosexual members have posted their opinions yet.

Al, you are wrong. Like I asked before, is your heterosexuality genes or enviroment?

allenb: This isn't even an argument. It's been proven that it is a heretic detail in the gene's of an individual. I'm a Christian as well and although I believe in our bible, one person does not make the choice "Well hey, lemme like the same sex!". It is a proven heretic gene in a person similiar to that of what determines other preferences.

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Originally posted here by Donkey Punch
Al, you are wrong. Like I asked before, is your heterosexuality genes or enviroment?

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wtf do you mean, wrong? I've made no statement in either direction. I've asked a question and later made an observation. To be wrong I would have had to made some sort of statement...unless you are saying that merely posing the original question is wrong.

In any case, you answered my question with a question, which only serves to undermine the purpose of this thread. If you cannot or will not provide information or insight that is beneficial to the nature of this thread, I would politely ask you to keep your comments to yourself. If my question was in some manner insulting to you then I extend my apologies.

It all boils down to this...I am seeking to increase my level of understanding and you seem intent on getting in the way for reasons I cannot fathom.

You are wrong because you said it is likely homosexual members has not posted. Also, the question is simple. When did heterosexual people find out they were straight? Is it from the enviroment or the genes? What part of that do you not understand?

Also, no need to get all bitchy about it.

DP...I'm assuming (based on your attitude and your comments in the marriage thread) that you are gay. If I'm mistaken, again I apologize. I'm trying to understand the nature of homosexuality from the point of view of someone who is homosexual. I'm not trying to be a homophobe, a redneck or a neo-nazi....I'm trying to gather knowlege on a subject I know damn near nothing about. Since you're unwilling to assist I guess that I might as well believe all those gay-bashing homophobes out there are right in everything they say.

So much for the "understanding" route....

You are missing the question entirely. Let me spell it out for you.

You asked if homosexuality is genes or enviroment. I am asking straight people if it was by the genes or enviroment. I think that is a fair question. Sice you are straight, I am sure you have an answer since you are quick to the draw, right? You see, I knew I was gay/bi whatever since I was very young, I just did not want to admit it because my old man was a Nazi/bigot/molester and would have killed me. Thus, I hid it.

But no need for me to yap on and on about my boo hoo childhood. It is immaterial. What is material here is people ask "Is it by the genes or enviroment?" I pose the same exact question back... when did you discover you liked girls? I am sure it will answer your question regarding how homosexuals (well, normal homos anyway) come to like men.

Need any more ellaboration?

No...I need nothing more from you on this subject. Answering a question with a question was, IMO, quite rude. I'm trying to understand your lifestyle and you're reacting like a smartass...wonder what that does for my opinion of gays in general?

I guess the question was too difficult for you to answer. Too bad, too sad.

Hey guys, chill, I think you were just both misunderstanding each other and it flew a little out of coontrol...

To answer the question: started liking girls around middle school (puberty). Before that, I was quite asexual and happy loving nothing more than my Nintendo. ;) Hmm...I wonder if I was better off sticking with Nintendo...

<edit> No, on second thought, I take that back -- jr. high. I stuck with Nintendo for quite a while now that I think of it. I was pretty antisocial. :D

AngelicKnight, that was not the question Al asked. He asked if homosexuality was in the genes or the enviroment and needed some insight from fellow homosexuals. IMO, this is a pretty dumb question because it is like asking you when, how and why you like girls.

Is liking girls in the genes or the enviroment? Did you take a microscope and take your DNA apart to see if there is a gay or stright gene in there? Lastly, did you go to a shrink and see if somewhere in the past somebody or something make you like girls? So what?

Perhaps scientists are going to see what makes people gay, straight, bi, or wheatever. In the meantime, I can say I do not care and enjoy myself.

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AngelicKnight, that was not the question Al asked.

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It was...the question you asked...

Ok, now you're getting me confused here...

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It was...the question you asked...

Ok, now you're getting me confused here...

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Thanks for the insight. I apologize for the confusion.

I have an enormous "masterbation" gene or some "chemical" imbalance. Why is that, is satan hanging out in my soul or am I an animal? Or do I lack internal controls? Who knows...

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He asked if homosexuality was in the genes or the enviroment and needed some insight from fellow homosexuals.

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Being that I am hetrosexual, I don't have any "fellow" homosexuals. I guess in your book that statement makes me a homophobe. If you can't tell DP, I'm of the opinion that you are a pretty narrow-minded individual. Your attitude and statements in this thread formed that opinion.

It's sad that a quest for understanding is being met with such resistance. For the second time, I'm sorry if the wording of my question offended you, but even so your attitude still remains the same.

To answer your question....
I was born into a hetrosexual lifestyle. I've lived a hetrosexual lifestyle all my life. It could be hardwired into me or it could be a product of my environment....there's no control "me" to compare myself to. However, it's a logical assumtion that the majority of gays are born as a result of hetrosexual activity so that tends to discredit the "gene" theory.

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Originally posted here by RoadClosed
I have an enormous "masterbation" gene or some "chemical" imbalance. Why is that, is satan hanging out in my soul or am I an animal? Or do I lack internal controls? Who knows...

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You're "normal"....deal with it....

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However, it's a logical assumtion that the majority of gays are born as a result of hetrosexual activity so that tends to discredit the "gene" theory.

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And you say I am narrow minded. I am done with your idiocy.

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However, it's a logical assumtion that the majority of gays are born as a result of hetrosexual activity so that tends to discredit the "gene" theory

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I totaly disagree with this. Whilst i will exept that enviroment can play a part in, the life chioses we make, i do not believe that our inviroment can dictate how we end up. I believe that is down to some other thing in our make up. That must be some form of breading or biological reason.

Greetings All:

Well, it seems that most of the other homosexuals that frequent the site are still hiding in their little closets that they make for themselves. Being one of the only resident openly homosexual men that post, I suppose I am somewhat obligated to respond to this thread.

As usual, most of the comments in this thread from the resident Christians are nearsighted and misinformed. But hey, I guess that's to be expected.

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Originally posted here by |3lack|ce
The best and most profound answer came from a girl I know who said, "I could've fallen in love with anyone. I just happened to fall in love with a woman first."

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This answer is hardly "the best", and is no where near being "profound". This woman, by definition, is BISEXUAL and by definition, is not HOMOSEXUAL.

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Originally posted here by AngelicKnight
Fortunately, we are creatures of free will that do not have to follow the desires we are born with...

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This is the same argument that the Catholics use. It's not "immoral" or "sinful" to BE homosexual, it's "immoral" or "sinful" to engage in homosexuality activity. This leaves us homos with two choices:

1. Lie to ourselves and our future heterosexual partner about who we really are. Gay men use to do this a LOT before the 70s. The result? They were able to live with their lies for a while, but eventually either started to cheat on their wives, or started getting divorced. This answer isn't right for the gay man who's made to feel that it's wrong for him to be true to himself about who he really is, and it's wrong for the gay man's partner who's being forced to become an unknowing participant in a relationship based on said lie. Telling people that they should live a lie is just sick.

2. Live our lives alone. This is what most religious organizations REALLY expect of homosexuals, assuming we don't want to burn in hell as sinners. Why do you think there are SOOOOOO many gay Catholic Priests? I would venture to go as far as to say that MOST Catholic Priests are gay men that became priests as a way for them to attempt to avoid their sexuality all together, and in turn, avoid burning in hell. Telling people they should live their lives alone because of their sexuality is just sick too.

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Originally posted here by AngelicKnight
I can understand why some throw up their hands and give up on the opposite sex. I think a lot of these people are finding within the same sex what they should be able to find but can't in the opposite sex, and I find that to be a sad truth.

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That's not a sad truth. That's a sad load of horse crap. Anyone that thinks that people get into homosexual relationships because they "give up" on the opposite sex is just a sadly misinformed and sheltered individual. That would be like me saying that you are in a heterosexual relationship because you can't get along with the guys. The issue of sexuality is far more fundamental than that.

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Originally posted here by Donkey Punch
IMO, this is a pretty dumb question because it is like asking you when, how and why you like girls.

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Unfortunately, this isn't a dumb question. It's a VERY important question, that religious lobby groups and organizations around the world are trying to AVOID. Why? Because when it's proven, as I know that it will be, that people are BORN homosexual, and that it is not a "CHOICE", governments will be hard pressed not to grant homosexuals the equal rights and benefits that they grant heterosexuals. Religious organizations argue that homosexuality is a CHOICE, and as such, people that CHOOSE to live in homosexual relationships should be granted no special privilege for making that CHOICE. However, once it's proven that homosexuals have no CHOICE as to their sexuality, to deny them equal rights and protections would be just as bigoted and openly wrong as denying African Americans, who by the way have no CHOICE as to the color of their skin, equal rights as well.

There's another factor to consider here. When it is proven that homosexuals are BORN homosexuals, a very serious issue of doctrine is raised for the religious. If homosexuals are BORN that way, it would be hard to argue that god didn't CREATE them that way, and as such, INTENDED there to be homosexuals. How could god CREATE and INTEND someone to be something that he in the bible CONDEMNS? This gets me back to the Catholic Church. Ever wonder why out of the blue they came out with their updated teaching that BEING gay isn't a sin, it's ENGAGING in homosexual behavior that is? The reason is clear: the church sees this issue coming, and they're trying to cover their asses (pardon the pun).

There were actually federally funded studies in the US underway as to the nature of sexuality. The Bush Administration cancelled all of such funding, and as a result all of the studies, when they came into office. I wonder why the religious are so afraid of finding out the truth? As I've said in other posts, most religions would rather not know the truth, or choose to ignore it, than to admit contradictions in their teachings. For them, protecting the validity of that old, outdated book of fairy tales (aka Bible) is the most important thing of all...

::flagprid

JP, thanks. Although the original question remains pretty well unanswered, you did give a serious response and helped provide me with a bit of clarity. You have my gratitude for sharing your insight with me.

I didn't intend for this to be the flame job it turned out to be. I just wanted to be able to have an informed opinion about a subject I know next to nothing about.

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There were actually federally funded studies in the US underway as to the nature of sexuality. The Bush Administration cancelled all of such funding, and as a result all of the studies, when they came into office. I wonder why the religious are so afraid of finding out the truth? As I've said in other posts, most religions would rather not know the truth, or choose to ignore it, than to admit contradictions in their teachings.

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I would love to see what the findings will be, and I am looking on Google to research this more. You see, I was raised a Jehovah's Witness, another extreme religious group based on "don't ask don't tell" policies. I denied I was bi for many, many years until I went to see a shrink wondering why I wanted to commit suicide. Come to find out, the shrink asked me point blank, "How long have you known you were gay or liked men?" Then it all came out.

Now I am in the current situation where I am trying to get out of a marriage because I lied to myself for so many years as you have pointed out. My wife is not happy at all that she found out I like guys too, but better to tell her than lie to her anymore. Also, it is not fair to her either. I let myself out of JW's in 1996, and I lost some friends because of what they found out. That is OK, because I'd rather not lie to myself either... and you know what? I am finding a lot of support too, it is way cool.

As for the dumb question thing, it is so obvious it is a dumb question in my own mind anyway because why ask why? I just know it to be so, but yeah, that can be just as ignorant as those asking the orginal question. Without the research and the "in the know" ****, how can it be explained? Personally, it is sad this does have to be explained. Oh well.

Greetings:

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Originally posted here by allenb1963
Although the original question remains pretty well unanswered

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Unfortunately, the "answer" hasn't been conclusively and scientific determined yet. However, there was an interesting article in the New York Times a while back, that I was able to dig up a link to entitled Are some people born gay. You may want to give it a glance.

It's based on old research, but as I've said before, once people were beginning to realize where the research was pointing, a lot of funding for it was cancelled.

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why ask why?

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Asking "why?" is what brings about knowlege and progress, that's why. For the third time, I'm sorry if my question insulted you, but you need to realize that I'm seeking knowlege here in order to increase my capacity to understand.

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Personally, it is sad this does have to be explained. Oh well.

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What....am I supposed to just magically know EVERYTHING? If I follow your line of thinking I should have been born with the ability to comprehend algebra and quantum mechanics.

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...that can be just as ignorant as those asking the orginal question.

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Thanks for letting me know I'm ignorant. However let me point out that I am at least trying to move beyond my ignorance, whereas your comments seem to indicate that you are perfectly content with yours.

Greetings:

Personally, I take no offense to anything that allenb1963 has asked. I think the question was asked in a responsible and mature manner. I see nothing wrong with "straight" people wanting to understand "gay" people better. Heck, I've had straight friends ask very blunt questions about the type of sexual activity that gay people engage in before. Honestly none of it bothers me at all. (That is NOT an invitation for people to ask those types of questions here. AntiOnline is NOT the appropriate medium for such questions, haha).

I think the more that people understand each other, the more likely that they are to accept each other.

:thumbsup:

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Originally posted here by JP
Greetings:



Unfortunately, the "answer" hasn't been conclusively and scientific determined yet. However, there was an interesting article in the New York Times a while back, that I was able to dig up a link to entitled Are some people born gay. You may want to give it a glance.

It's based on old research, but as I've said before, once people were beginning to realize where the research was pointing, a lot of funding for it was cancelled.

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An informative link...again I extend my gratitude.

One more thing JP...thanks for not finding my question offensive. Understand that I don't have any bias against homosexuals....but I do admit feeling disgust towards small-minded folks REGARDLESS of their sexual orientation.