Getting Linux, a few questions I'm sure someone could answer.

Hey everyone, how's things goin? It's goin ok for me, been better. A plus is that I just got a new laptop and I'm gonna get Linux on it. I'll download one of the distros out there ofcourse. I wanted to know what was a good distro for the Linux beginner, but also provides a stable work environment. I researched and I found three that really caught my eye. They were Slackware, Mandrake, and easyLinux.... but I really cant say what's good or better, or what's advantageous of the group.I have no idea. Any information aimed towards beginner based and or easy to use Linux distros please post! Also, I wanted to know if a dual boot is possible with this new pc. I've already installed things and I dont want to loose what I've saved on my laptop. I think what I really wanna know is would I be able to set up Linux with dual boot without having to repartition this hard drive.

My thoughts and recommendations are going to lean you towards slackware, and here is why:

1. IF you go redhat or fedora, the distro people recommend all too often to newbies, you never really learn anything. The entire Operating System holds your hand so much that you leave the OS only knowing that you now hate the RPM packaging system. It's a good OS, but trust me, you won't gain much from it.

2. Mandrake is a solid OS, and this would be my second choice for people new to Linux. However, it too holds your hand almost too much to learn things.

3. Slackware has got to be -the- cleanest Linux system. It's hard to explain what I mean by that. For instance, let's say you are looking to purchase a car. Now, you need a car with all the basic features, right? With Linux distros, you run the risk of the steering wheel being on the right side of the car... maybe the trunk in the front of the car and the engine in the back, and possibly the gastank on the side of the car instead of underneath.

The point is, too many distributions have folders/files/ways to configure/ that just don't make sense nor stick to origonal Operating System standards. This can make it confusing for beginners as well as seasoned users.

I've used slackware for a very very long time now, and it still remains my favorite Linux OS. It's going to have tools to help you install/configure and the like, but still show you how (and THAT'S IMPORTANT) to do the same things manually. This way you get an OS you can still use, but also learn how to use.

Stable. Solid. Fast. And most importantly... KISS method. Keep it Simple Stupid is the motto that slackware users live by - common sense, basically.

"Ask a slackware user a question, get 3 answers on how to accomplish the same thing different ways."

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by C.Battery
Hey everyone, how's things goin? It's goin ok for me, been better. A plus is that I just got a new laptop and I'm gonna get Linux on it. I'll download one of the distros out there ofcourse. I wanted to know what was a good distro for the Linux beginner, but also provides a stable work environment. I researched and I found three that really caught my eye. They were Slackware, Mandrake, and easyLinux.... but I really cant say what's good or better, or what's advantageous of the group.I have no idea. Any information aimed towards beginner based and or easy to use Linux distros please post! Also, I wanted to know if a dual boot is possible with this new pc. I've already installed things and I dont want to loose what I've saved on my laptop. I think what I really wanna know is would I be able to set up Linux with dual boot without having to repartition this hard drive.

---

I don't know what kind of response you'll get , but for a quick fix suggest you PM gore. He can usually solve *nix problems, regardless of distro

Why don't you try some bootable disto's first and get to know your way around before installing one...

i don't know every bootable distro but i've used

Helix
PHLAK
and Knoppix

copy, because that won't do much for anyone, to be honest.

You can't install programs. You can't modify configuration files. You may or may not have a good hardware detection on the CD, and if you don't that can be a huge turn off. It's going to run slower than normal because it's in RAM and not RAM+Hard drive.

They won't be learning Linux. They will be learning an interface.

Granted that it'll run slower, try VMWare and do an install of whatever you want. It's a good way to learn and you have an open playground to do pretty much whatever you would do on a regular boot of whatever plus you have virtual hardware which is supported by pretty much everything.

Slackware doesn't work with VMware, along with quite a few other distros.

You can always workaround (some) of that by using a VMware meant kernel... but that destroys a lot of capability Linux has. Not to mention, slackware and distros still won't install.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by ;TT
Granted that it'll run slower, try VMWare and do an install of whatever you want. It's a good way to learn and you have an open playground to do pretty much whatever you would do on a regular boot of whatever plus you have virtual hardware which is supported by pretty much everything.

---

I dont think I quite understand you. Are you saying install VMWare, and then use a cd version of Linux like Knoppix? Hmmm... not too sure what VMWare actually is.

I've installed Slackware on VMWare before and I'll do it tonight again if you so please... you use the scsi.s kernel which is no work-around... it comes standard with Slackware 10.


VMWare creates a virtual computer on your computer, you actually install the distro/whatever onto your computer. Google it and you'll get more specifics.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by ;TT
Granted that it'll run slower, try VMWare and do an install of whatever you want. It's a good way to learn and you have an open playground to do pretty much whatever you would do on a regular boot of whatever plus you have virtual hardware which is supported by pretty much everything.

---

That is assuming you have the necessary requirements to run VMware or Microsoft(Connectix) Virtual Machine software in the first place. Running both at present, Servers, and Linux workstations, speed is well down the list of features

Check here: http://www.vmware.com/support/ws45/d...s.html#1032234

Simple enough.

For the love of god, stay away from VMWare. Learn to use the operating system while being inside of it, rather than having to customize and configure around vmware. No need to add additional hassel when someone is first trying to learn an OS, especially WITH all of the reports of bugs VMware gives when people are first learning to configure their kernels.

Learn Linux to learn linux, not learn how to make linux run with vmware without bugs or errors.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by ;TT
Check here: http://www.vmware.com/support/ws45/d...s.html#1032234

Simple enough.

---

Another option
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by poohsuntzu
Learn Linux to learn linux

---

Best option---Start from basics-Do the idiot proof stuff i.e the 123's /abc's

I give up. Tell you what guys, when he is spending time trying to figure out why something won't work in Linux because of vmware or virtualpc, you can have fun helping him out.

virtualpc and vmware are great for quick installations of those who already know what they are doing in the OS, and thus are willing to accept the limitations that vmware imposes.

It is NOT good for someone just learning linux, as it only adds more variables to bug testing and more haze when he's trying to find answers of "Why doesn't ___ work?"

From learning to configure his sound card (not an emulated vmware one, his REAL soundcard), to managing his kernel timings (something vmware does NOT allow), VMware is going to be a huge hinderance right now.

Indeed. Me not being skilled at all in Linux. I feel it's necessary to gain that natural feel of it before using an emulated one. Using emulators are never the same as the original thing and they always have faults/ hinderances that just wont exist on originals otherwise. I'm gonna go with the slackware for startes.. and then move on to an emulator later maybe just for test purposes to look back on what this post was really about and possibly laugh at it.I'm sure the road to hacking is going to be a long and tedious one, but I'm not in it for the glory or glamour, if any that comes with being a true hacker. I'm in it for the knowledge I would gain for myself, and principals that I would get out of it, not just to look cool with my peers.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by poohsuntzu
I give up

---

Don't you often think to yourself? "Why bother" :D

before moving to linux get your self acoustmed to linux, coz one, use a dual boot or a knopix live cd, try around ,a few clicks here a few there , see what linux is all about ,and once you are confident enough move over to linux , linux and windows are too seperate OS

so regard less of the flavor of linux u r about to use


for dual try xosl (xtended operating system loader)

to look cool in front of you friends try MSDOS ;-) LOL

Quote:

---

to look cool in front of you friends try MSDOS ;-) LOL

---

lmao.

Good advice from everyone, thanks for all of the replies.. Well, I think I have devised a pretty stable approach to Linux that I'm going to take based on all the advise I got here. I'll first learn the fundamentals, the principals. Then I'll tinker around, and finally I'll fully install Linux.I have a book or two lying around on the subject, I should red them as well. *nods*

yourdeadin,

I'll just copy and paste what I said earlier in this thread about livecd's for someone wanting to LEARN linux.

Quote:

---

copy, because that won't do much for anyone, to be honest.

You can't install programs. You can't modify configuration files. You may or may not have a good hardware detection on the CD, and if you don't that can be a huge turn off. It's going to run slower than normal because it's in RAM and not RAM+Hard drive.

They won't be learning Linux. They will be learning an interface.

---

Seriously people, let the guy learn, not test out an INTERFACE (which is a gui, NOT linux itself) which will most likely completely change when he finally installs his own X server and decided interface. And it certainly won't help him learn a command line since Live-cd's filesystems remain unmodifiable and thus learning how to configure your system is out of the question.

Yep. You are right tzu, and your advise is seriously considered. But also the others were right when they said get a cd version Before the real thing. It wont be a problem at all, I mean 5-10 days max playing with the interface and getting comfortable then movin on to Slackware definantly. Slackware is obviously where I'm gonna have the most problems at, and do expect me to post on the boards before I install it. But after I get it installed, and my dual boot is a success then its back to the enlightening journey. AO, to me, is an invaluable source for information, and I appreciate the support of everyone who assists me.

>.< GAHHHH.

Using a liveCD to understand and "tryout" linux so you can understand slackware better, is like driving a Ford Neon with a clutch so you can learn the experience of driving a Volkswagon Bug that has an automatic transmission installed.

Oh well, have fun

Yes, the freedom and hinderances. Atleast its a steady releif out of the conformity of the Windows environment. Also realize that I'll use Knoppix for a little over one week, and I dont think it can hurt being that I have no experience with Linux or the like. I'm not gonna jump right into customizing off bat anyway, Knoppix might actually be pretty wholesome since it has all the internal commands I need.... Well, that I want too.

Quote:

---

Atleast its a steady releif out of the conformity of the Windows environment.

---

And you're jumping right into the conformity of being different and using X. =\

http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=260583


The hell with VMware.




http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=258790








http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=259335

Which sucks... but we dont care what people think they know. I've seen people talk down on Linux in groups then when someone speaks up on Linux and puts out some subject they cant grasp, they seize the so called 'discussion'.We all know some advantages of Linux, hell I even know some and havent even touched it yet, but I know why I want to to it. I figure as long as I gain knowledge, and assist people when I can by staying humble someone always is gonna try to knock you or hate you for that. You have to learn to overcome oppinions of others, and go by what you Know.


Edit: Thanks Gore that did it right there.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by ;TT
And you're jumping right into the conformity of being different and using X. =\

---

X and the word conform don't belong in the same sentence, ever.

X doesn't make you different, it makes you a WIMP ;)

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by gore
X and the word conform don't belong in the same sentence, ever.

X doesn't make you different, it makes you a WIMP ;)

---

Contradiction. If it doesn't make you different, it makes you conform.

Isn't X in mind for beginners? Gore's obviously no beginner. Though.. he did make a small sentance error there but hey, every Guru does every once in a while,

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by C.Battery
Isn't X in mind for beginners? Gore's obviously no beginner. Though.. he did make a small sentance error there but hey, every Guru does every once in a while,

---

Do you even know what X is? Second part is just too stupid to comment on.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by C.Battery
assist people when I can by staying humble
Edit: Thanks Gore that did it right there.

---

Humility is a good attribute to have in your life

:p Lol.... Yes, I do know what X is actually. Second part was a joke to an extent, Gore is pretty good tho. Isnt X the Linux Desktop?

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by gore
X and the word conform don't belong in the same sentence, ever.

X doesn't make you different, it makes you a WIMP ;)

---

I think that gore's WIMP was implying Windows Icons Menus Pointing device, i.e GUI, which is totally different from command line operations in any O/S

If you are going to install slackware in the future, you might as well go with Slax for your live cd,
http://slax.linux-live.org/

As far as not being able to learn about linux, not able to use the command line while using a live cd, that is total bull sh*t. The only difference in using a live cd is that it will run slower than a hardrive installed distro. If you screw something up, just re-boot and you are ready to go again.

Quote:

---

As far as not being able to learn about linux, not able to use the command line while using a live cd, that is total bull sh*t.

---

Unfortunatally you didn't read what I wrote.

I said that using the command line to make system configuration changes was impossible due to how livecd's were constructed. And that is true, for 99% of them.

SLAX uses the ovlfs file system and thus it is pseudo-reconfigurable, but not. It is closer to having a true Slackware OS, but still NOT a slackware installation. So, if you've ever read documentation on the ovlfs and ext3 filesystems you would have known that SLAX is an incredibly rare livecd distrubition as it allows temporary modifications to the filesystem structure, but at the great cost of features within the kernel.

So back off with your "bull ****" and read some documentation. The majority of livecd's are ENTIRLEY different than an installed OS on multiple levels.


Edit: And in case you think I'm talking out of my ass here-

http://thetao.sourceforge.net

My livecd was modeled after the ovlfs filesystem that SLAX uses, so I fully know and undertand it's limitations on the kernel capability and file system control.

Quote:

---

Unfortunatally you didn't read what I wrote.

---

Quote:

---

They won't be learning Linux. They will be learning an interface.

---

Quote:

---

As far as not being able to learn about linux, not able to use the command line while using a live cd, that is total bull sh*t.

---

I am so sorry I mis-quoted you. I guess I didn't read is correctly.

pooh, for someone who has not tried linux, you are telling them not to use a live distro? That they cannot learn about linux without an installation? Sorry, but I have to disagree with your point on this one.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by devpon
I am so sorry I mis-quoted you. I guess I didn't read is correctly.

pooh, for someone who has not tried linux, you are telling them not to use a live distro? That they cannot learn about linux without an installation? Sorry, but I have to disagree with your point on this one.

---

READ!! The text doesn't go away, you're not understanding what he's saying.

No worries ;TT, him and I can agree to disagree :)

Now, since we've yet again smashed another topic by taking it off topic, let's just let it drop lol

Hello,

I started with Slackware and haven't regretted it at all. Slack will definately give you a learning experience. I have to agree on the stability. Its package manager does make it easier for a newbie. I actually started with ZipSlack and ran it on a second hard drive to get my feet wet. Helped out alot. Also, be sure you take several trips to the Linux Documentation Project. You'll find that a lot of problems have answers and solutions already. Its a big help when you're trying to get X device to work.

One note I'll add here, I do use X for the graphical stuff, but not KDE, too much like M$. I use WindowMaker as my desktop environment. Its simple and small, plus it have many rich features. You'll find alot of other excellent environments by searching google though.

Good Luck.

.....They converted my help post into a laid back flame. Nice.