Reflections on AO

It has been some time since I've been an active member here, mainy because I've been trying to keep a large EPoS design, development and implementation on track and I haven't really had the time to do anything else.

However, by mid july most of the work was over and I began reading AO again.

Something has changed and I just can't get the enthusiasm to post these days.

Reflecting on AO..

Things have changed:
* We seem to have more Mods than I remeber, but I see little evidence of timely and effective moderation of AO.
* Custom titles have been added as a site benefit, yet I fail to see the benefit these titles deliver when viewed by new members of the site.
* It seems that juvenile actions are the norm for certain members, with repeated bans having little or no effect.
* There seem to be less posts discussing the finer points of security or helping users get to the bottom of their problems.
* Many more new users post once and then never return.
* As a place where real advances could be made in the field of security, with much in the way of useful expertise, I see little evidence that AO is a force to be reckoned with in the fight against much that is bad in the world of computers.

Things have stayed the same:
* Some Senior members are still quick to light/fan the flames.
* A fresh female member can wreak havoc.
* Addicts access is still a topic for discussion.
* Post count is stil a valid goal in itself for some users.
* The AO site theme feels a little tired

I have changed:
* I wonder if my interest in AO wained after there seemed to be little else to acheive here (no more dots to get).
* I have had little security wise to worry about at work or home for some time now.
* I have less tolerance for brash and abraisive behaviour/language.

I have stayed the same:
* I still need to feel useful and to help people.
* I am often fickle and get bored easily.

Please note, these are simply my reflection and experiences, and are not by any factual analysis.

I'm not planning on leaving AO as protest.

I'm just hoping thread wil invite some reasoned discussion, perhaps allow others some time to reflect and as A result I really hope my interest in posting returns.

Thanks for listening.

Steve

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A fresh female member can wreak havoc.

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http://www.antionline.com/showthread...hreadid=144696

You should have been here in '01, and 02, and 03.....
Lots of girls have been gang raped on AO.

It's no worse now. Try digging up some really old threads
if they're still archived.

Heh, yeah.. and the GCC has gone to hell (along with some other forums) due to the bumping and whatnot. Bleh, oh well.. things like this always happen?

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ExCUUUUUUUUUse me!

I'm bored of this thread now. Nobody is making it interesting enough for me.

BTW, whoever said that **** about the guy that works down the road from me, see if I give a ****. I'm a normal person in real life. I think the word is 'stable'.

If some psycho is going to hunt me down and piss in my shoe, who's the one with issues, eh?

Quad... get off it. You pretend to hate me but I know you like me. I can see your tail wagging.

As for the moron that PM'd me telling me that I needed a good root, let me tell you I **** often enough not to feel a need to tell someone else in writing that what they need is my muff on their face. Get a grip. Your **** is probably so fearfully small that you'd have problems ****ing a mouse.

"peace out".

*rolls eyes*

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Read it here

If anything, I'd say the site has improved.
:cool:

The more things change : The more things stay the same .........

Just wondering...

How do the mods get chosen here?

Was there a request for mods, or was it invite only?

Did people volunteer?

Some comments I've read recently give me cause for concern.

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Originally posted here by rcgreen
You should have been here in '01, and 02, and 03.....
Lots of girls have been gang raped on AO.

It's no worse now.

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My point exactly... Just cause it's no worse doesn't make it OK

Steve

I'd assume volunteers ................

it IS unpaid work after all. and there appears to be no thanks in it ..........

It's like a cycle every 16 months or so..

Pressure building up -> mahem -> getting back to normal -> normality -> pressure building etc..

I don't mind it much .. .. and try to keep out of stuff..

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Originally posted here by foxyloxley
I'd assume volunteers ................

it IS unpaid work after all. and there appears to be no thanks in it ..........

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Not getting paid nor receiving thanks for a task is no excuse for not giving it your best.

Some time ago I was a St.John Brigade member, volunteer work.

I still had to qualified & competent, and I still had a duty to help people, with or without thanks.

I have had racist abuse directed towards me from someone while trying to patch up their mate. I still did the right thing.

Perhaps I just expect too much of people!

Steve

I find anytime I have a question I get a string of quick and informed responses, so AO continues to be satisfactory for me.

Every since I joined, there's been good stuff and bad stuff. You ignore the bad and run with the good. That's about all you can do, really.

AO isnt perfect but neither is any other forum i have been too so im agreeing with Knight here things are good and bad and just gotta go with the flow. but overall AO still is a good forum i think with smart people ( for the most part lol) trying to help other people out.

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it IS unpaid work after all. and there appears to be no thanks in it ..........

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I believe MsM and Neg do, not a big amount but still they do. And they deserve it too, since i think they do the most work here from the mods.

Hi CopyRight,

I think they can afford to pay two forum-wide mods a decent salary...if they're not getting a decent salary the word ' cheap ' would spring to mind...

in fact as far as I'm concerned every mod should get some compensation...I'm sure they ( JupiterMedia ) don't work for free...why should they expect to get free labor? They probably pee themselves laughing all the way to the bank every time they get somebody to work for nothing.

I can see some obsure struggling website depending upon the generousity and good graces of it's members...but JupiterMedia is not obsure nor struggling.

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The firm expects Jupitermedia shares to outperform the market "by at least 25% over the next 12 months."

SG Cowen cut Jupitermedia's 2005 estimate to earnings of 50 cents per share on revenue of $129.2 million, down from earnings of 81 cents per share on revenue of $140.9 million. The firm cut the 2006 estimate to earnings of 67 cents per share on revenue of $163.3 million, down from earnings of 96 cents per share on revenue of $175.1 million.

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http://www.forbes.com/markets/2005/0...markets12.html
Jupitermedia Shares Could Outperform Market By 25% - Forbes.com

as a further illustration...

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JUPITERMEDIA CORPORATION REPORTS RECORD RESULTS FOR ITS SECOND QUARTER ENDED JUNE 30, 2005
(New York, NY - August 1, 2005) - Jupitermedia Corporation (Nasdaq: JUPM) today reported results for the quarter ended June 30, 2005. Revenues for the second quarter of 2005 were $33.8 million compared to revenues of $17.8 million for the same period last year, an increase of 89%. Net income for the second quarter was $7.0 million, or $0.19 per diluted share, compared to net income of $3.5 million, or $0.11 per diluted share, for the same period last year.

"We are pleased with our financial results for the second quarter, with record revenues and net income," stated Jupitermedia's Chairman and CEO Alan M. Meckler. "We have been emphasizing the development of our JupiterImages division and the second quarter illustrates continued organic and overall growth in the sales and distribution of commercial images. The acquisition of PictureArts in July marks our seventh major images acquisition since June 2003 (ArtToday, Comstock, Thinkstock, Hemera, Dynamic Graphics, Goodshoot and PictureArts). We plan to continue our acquisitions program in the coming months. Our employees are working hard to shape and integrate these acquisitions so that Jupitermedia becomes a powerful creator and distributor of a wide range of commercial images. The full impact of this integration will be more apparent in future quarters. In the meantime we continue to evolve as a company making positive financial progress not only with JupiterImages, but with our JupiterWeb, JupiterResearch and JupiterEvents divisions," added Meckler.

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http://www.jupitermedia.com/corporat...ndQuarter.html
JUPITERMEDIA CORPORATION REPORTS RECORD RESULTS FOR ITS SECOND QUARTER ENDED JUNE 30, 2005

Egaladeist -- Damn near every moderator here is a fool then.. only Negative and MsMittens are official "JUPM Employee's".. sucks, eh?

Hi Spyder,

They make enough to pay their mods...they don't because they don't have to...in my opinion that still doesn't make it right.

They should pay ' everyone ' who works for them...and not depend upon free labor.

If they were destitute or struggling that would be different.

I'm a charity co-ordinator...we need and depend on volunteers...JupiterMedia is a business...they don't need volunteers.

Pay your friggin' people...on revenue of 163 million dollars you can't afford to pay your mods...give me a friggin' break.

Eg ;)

Well, as much as I wish they had your thinking.. I don't think I consider what I do as "labor". My opinion though.. it does take time and all that but yeah, I don't expect JUPM to compensate me. They can if they like though! :D

Hi Spyder,

But that's not the point...if you were hired as a graveyard shift supervisor to just oversee the workers...walk around and make sure they were all working and not goofing off in the lunchroom...would you expect to be paid for that...or would you offer your services for free?

A job does not have to be labor intensive to be a job...I know alot of people that get paid to just oversee others...and basically that's what a mod does.

To me it's like Bill Gates saying to a guy ' Hey buddy! Can you watch my store for me while I run a few errands...just a few hours a day...just keep an eye on it for me will ya?! ' and then the cheap ( insert word ) doesn't even so much as offer to pay him.

Eg ;)

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A fresh female member can wreak havoc

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Hey.. where is ms Mittens.. She has had an overwhelming impact on this forum... She is not around lately.. Does anyone know where she is...

Hey Steve,

AO has changed... some for the worse, some for the better... lately... I'm one of those for the worse things (but seemingly only for American members.. hehe ;) and no I'm not trying to start anything)... Technology and Security seem to be at a low lately, even the mailing lists I subscribe to are down in that aspect... which on a forum leads to bored.. .and boredom on these things always causes trouble.. which is what we have... We also have a highly stressed political situtation in the world which is frequently broached here and we unlike a good ol' fashioned debate, we make it personal or take it personally... We read the literal when we should read the general or the general when we should read the literal... We also have a lot of immaturity... (my political beliefs would have me classed in that by those that I label as immature but there are others as well)... It's as it will always be a revolving soap opera..

As far as your question of mods... How it happens kinda varies...

ZenCoder was announced and that was the first i'd heard of it... and for the most part it was a good choice (I'm still of the belief that a mod should be 100% impartial in the forums they moderate... but no one else agrees)....
I suggested a forum and someone mentioned spreading mods too thin, so I volunteered to do it if they wanted... got a PM saying I was doing it.. I'm just trying to stay out.. make important things sticky and delete requested threads.. unless it get's outta hand.. but it's Phishing and CyberScams.. that seems unlikely.
HogFly suggested the Forensics forum (I believe) and is quite obviously the best person to be the mod.
As far as I've heard Spyder sent in a message begging to be made a Mod.... and they finally relented and allowed a non-technical post whore to becom a moderator... He's become more technical and less of a post whore thankfully... but unfortunately still allows himself to be easily angered and let's his feelings cloud his judgement.

That's about it...

Peace,
HT

This from a guy who fallows up a comment on his weight by getting red-faced, foams at the mouth, yells at his screen, then responds with a rambling speech or two which doesn't even make a whole hell of alot of sense.

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I prolly do, but at least I go out and have a good time... and I spend time with my gf who I **** regularly.. have you ever been with a woman? you're like some 12 year old who's got no life.. you're only insult is ever you're fat... get a life.

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HT also once said in addicts awhile back that every member should be banned except for a select few of senior members and that everyone should pay money to post here. Oh and then he yelled alot when no one agreed.

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Originally posted here by AngelicKnight
I find anytime I have a question I get a string of quick and informed responses, so AO continues to be satisfactory for me.

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I'm glad you get what you want. But as an established member you 'know the ropes'. It's the newbies that don't seem to hang around too much to learn. I wonder if that is a reflection on the style of AO or a reflection of the newbies

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Originally posted
here by gauravjulka


Hey.. where is ms Mittens.. She has had an overwhelming impact on this forum... She is not around lately.. Does anyone know where she is...

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I would hardly suggest that she wreaks havoc though!

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Originally posted here by HTRegz
[...]
Technology and Security seem to be at a low lately, even the mailing lists I subscribe to are down in that aspect... which on a forum leads to bored.. .and boredom on these things always causes trouble.. which is what we have... We also have a highly stressed political situtation in the world which is frequently broached here and we unlike a good ol' fashioned debate, we make it personal or take it personally... We read the literal when we should read the general or the general when we should read the literal... We also have a lot of immaturity... (my political beliefs would have me classed in that by those that I label as immature but there are others as well)... It's as it will always be a revolving soap opera..
HT

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Maybe it's the Tec/Sec activity that's low I'm noticing... The more I think about this the more the above makes sense.

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As far as your question of mods... How it happens kinda varies...
[...]
That's about it...

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Shame I missed it. I volunteered some time ago to be a mod.

Steve

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Originally posted here by steve.milner
I'm glad you get what you want. But as an established member you 'know the ropes'. It's the newbies that don't seem to hang around too much to learn. I wonder if that is a reflection on the style of AO or a reflection of the newbies

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I do realise that some newbies might be scared off pretty easily by the AP system, especially if they get negged almost immediately for some dumb remarks. I can imagine that a newbie who gets negged just because of a post (s)he made might be a bit insulted because (s)he thinks it was a valid answer.
Of course, since AO gets visited by plenty of trolls the AP system does help to get rid of those. But when a newbie isn't trolling but just a bit dumb, negging them will tend to scare them off too. A bit more tolerance would be appreciated.
Trolls can easily be dealt with by reporting their posts. A moderator can then decide to kill a troll even faster than the AP system can.

Suggestion: since new members must provide their email address, it might be useful to send them some useful information from the FAQs by email after they've succesfully logged in to the system for the first time.

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Originally posted here by Katja
I do realise that some newbies might be scared off pretty easily by the AP system, especially if they get negged almost immediately for some dumb remarks. I can imagine that a newbie who gets negged just because of a post (s)he made might be a bit insulted because (s)he thinks it was a valid answer.

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It's not so much the AP system I think that causes the problem, but some of the acidity of the comments that fly around that would put off the newbies.

And also there's the who issue of who's reliable.

One time Senior Memebers had that as a title, now the plethora of custom titles is likely to cause confusion for the newbies - Who to trust becomes an issue.

Steve

I've visited lots of forums ( as I'm sure you all have )...and...every forum that has a community lounge has the same problems or worse...and I've seen plenty worse...that's the trade-off you have to expect when you build a community...people from places all over the world, with varying ages, personalities, and cultures are going to clash once in awhile...

the only forums I've seen that have avoided this are the ones that do not allow personal interaction between members...forums that do not have a lounge or any place where the members can chat with each other...the trade-off for them is that their membership doesn't seem to be a community...the members are more like formal participants...

personally, I like and prefer the community forums better...and I think most people agree with me...because those formal forums don't seem to be very active...even with a large membership base they rarely have more than 10 people online at any given time...and often, none at all.

Eg ;)

I like the drama, it breaks the routine and its not in the least comming anywhere near me personally nor am I annoyed by it. Like someone (the-jinx I think) already pointed out, it's a reacuring event and everytime I'm having great fun bitching about how bad antionline has become. I don't have me account removed because I think that's silly, so I just don't look at the site. Then after a while when I'm surfing arround I stumble upon antionline again and start pissing of some americans or whatever. I did give me opinion on alot of computer issues in the past, but I rarely do that now. It's a waste of time for me since most topics are already discussed, already answered or helplessly lost in conflicting views. Adding new perspectives to several topics is more valuable to me and I secretly hope some people actually listen to what I say sometimes. With me non-conformistic patriotic political view I think that adds some value to AO, yet it also causes the nescesarry flame at times. The moderators get payed to handle that though, so no problem whatsoever if you ask me.

As for antionline degrading... To be honest, since it turned into a forum it hasn't been much better or much worse... There's just different people now, so antionline is different.

On a second thought, antionline has become way less tollerant towards pretty much everything. Also, the active usercount is sorta shrinking, for the reason that there's no new reasons to come here, yet there's plenty of new reasons to leave or go somewhere else instead.

Well, in all the time I've been here, I've seen a bunch of people take this site way too ****ing seriously. I've seen good discussions, stupid discussions, and Seniors go off and do stupid **** just so they can get banned. (I know, I'm guilty of that a few times myself.) But it's been mostly good.

And, many of the things that AO has spawned either directly or indirectly, YICS and Unerror for example, as well as many of the friendships I've made with people here, have more tha made up for any bullshit that has come up.

Yes, I do believe that AO is at somewhat of a low point, but it'll bounce back. Always does.

So it seems like the 'action' here is popular.

In that case you're all a bunch of b....

Nah, I haven't got the eneergy.

Steve

bring it on b...., you already replied

w00t

Flame war!!!!!!!!


If people didn't get oversensitive about this stuff, there wouldn't be a problem. Flame wars are fun. They're entertainment.

You're all bitches. :p

Ya know though, we haven't had a REALLY good flame war in a long time. I remember when we had some real knockdown, dragout threads going on. APs flying all over the place, all sorts of crazy stuff. Now we just have the occasional gore knocking some kid down a few notches, and that's about it. :D

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Originally posted here by AngelicKnight
Ya know though, we haven't had a REALLY good flame war in a long time. I remember when we had some real knockdown, dragout threads going on. APs flying all over the place, all sorts of crazy stuff. Now we just have the occasional gore knocking some kid down a few notches, and that's about it. :D

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yeap. Even flame wars lost its magic here :D

You can always tell the younger ones LOL :D a year or two becomes ' yah, remember when...' and...

to us older folk...' errrrr...wasn't that just yesterday ' :D

Damn youngins.

Well for the record I became a mod when JP was here just doing this forum and the Newbie forum out of the fact that I really liked the place and was a round a lot back then.

I lurk here nowadays. What brought me back was regaining the connection to several members that I lost when I had my account deleted. I visit about once a week and post on occasion, usually in the web development forum as I used to. If I see a post I can help on, I'll reply, if not...I really don't see the need.

My general interest here has dwindled, but I've been around AO too long to walk away as easily as I thought I could - just too many people I have grown to know over the years - regardless of how things have changed in that time.

Christina... Will you marry me?

I've nothing against a flame war in the appropriate place - I just don't think it does AO any good to have the flames quite so high in the tec/sec formus.

Come on, roast me you geeks.

Steve

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Originally posted here by d0pp
Christina... Will you marry me?

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You are Mark Boyle and I calim my 5 free sets of salt stained car keys!

Steve

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I've nothing against a flame war in the appropriate place - I just don't think it does AO any good to have the flames quite so high in the tec/sec formus.

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Ah but Steve, my British friend, the tech/sec forums are where the geeks become most proprietary, trying to show off their intellectual prowess, much like Rednecks attempt to show off physically at bars on Saturday nights when females are present, or a male Gorilla does when he feels the need...

Hmmmmmm... Note to self - make new documentary short 'Mating habits of the North American Geek.'