Old vs. New AO

No, before you get it in your head that this is a bitch thread it's not. It is actually quite the opposite.

JPNyc since you seem to be reading threads. I figured I would allow you to understand why there is such an outpore by members saying old ao was better, this sucks and death to the none believers.

The easiest way to explain why members are in such an uproar about the new layout is because it no longer sets AO apart. AO has become a sanctuary for people. Many a person that has been around here for years has gone through the good the bad, and everything between here. They have friends that they talk to outside of the site. People they have met.

So with changing the layout of the site, it makes the site no longer any different from the thousands of other computer security sites out there. It is just another one in the many now.

While I am sure the Jupmed corp thought long and hard about the change over, you can't compute or plan out how people are going to react.

I know it sounds kinda childish but, people had gotten attached to the layout that AO had for so many years, they knew where everything was, they had, had it for so long that it had become as much a part of the site as any contributing member.

While, I don't believe the update to be a complete waste as some others do, I do believe that the update was thrusted upon the members. While it is your site, the members make the site, and like it or not if 25% of the seniors/knowledgable people left the site, this baby would go down in flames faster than Michael Jacksons hair.

Since Im sure you haven't heard it much recently good job, and thanks. Even with the apparent bugs, you seem to be busting your @ss to get them fixed a.s.a.p. with as little problems as possible.

Thanks, and I do understand. But there was simply no choice any longer. The site was too antiquated and couldn't be updated any other way. Vb had long ago stopped supporting the version, and it was so customized that none of their patches worked on it anyway. There was nothing else that could be done.

It was a constant source of problems and breakdowns, even the simplest operation was a bear to do here. It had to be done. For the longest time we weren't even sure it COULD be done. But it was basically done by hand, piece by piece, by 2 people, mnstrgrl and myself.

Maybe I'm insane but, I like the new layout. Even if I didn't, it wouldn't make any difference. There's alot of very intelligent people here and that won't change. If I have a problem that needs answers, I won't think to myself "oh damn, I would have gone to AO but I don't like the way it looks."
Whatever it is, it is. Let's move on.

Thank you! I like it better myself, but what I like doesn't matter either.

In this kind of enviroment it's not what anyone thinks, it's a percentage of what people think.
And this is the internet...I've left two sites prior to joining here because of navigation or other problems...ok, it's great to say, the members will adjust...the members will adjust because they're members...newbies will just move on if they have problems navigating the site or get a freaky log-on...they're not going to be as patient as a member...they're not going to stick around while you work out the bugs...they'll just go someplace easier and someplace easier on the eyes.
This is not just about us...there's a bigger picture...if I was to just see this now as a newbie...I wouldn't even bother...wouldn't waste my time...there's so many sites out there now that if I had to spend more than a few minutes joining and figuring things out I'd move on to a more accomodating forum...
you can expect a certain amount of ' OK, the bugs will get worked out ' from members...' the site looks like crap but I'll live with it '...
I'm not sure you'll get the same reaction from visitors who are looking for a comfortable, easy, and nice-looking forum to join.

The simple fact is this is the internet...where everyone wants it faster and faster...easier and easier...there are just too many options for people out there for you to do such a dramatic change and not expect a lot of negative reaction.

Eg ;)

That's hard to believe though, since all our forums run the same software, with varying color schemes, and many have huge numbers of users. Couple of them regularly around 1600 online at a given time during the day. The color schemes vary but the basic format and navigation are all the same, at least where the forum itself is concerned.

I'm a member of two other forums in your network...including your bread n' butter traffic hound Webdeveloper.com...and they are nothing like this.

As superficial as it may be...instinctively...people look for what is pleasing to the eye...their eye...whether that's a home, a car, clothes, women, or a forum...then...they look for speed and functionality.

How is that nothing like this? The navigation is identical. What is different?

Can you say "hidden agenda"...

The look is very different...and it's the look, as I said previously, that is the first impression...do you buy clothes you don't like...a sterio..television...home...people are first and formost attracted to what pleases their eye.

Neg,

I have no ' hidden agenda ' that's just paranoia...I am expressing my opinion...I would think that feedback would be what you want...

unless JupMed dosen't care what members think...then that's different....and I suspect that's probably the case.

The only difference I see is the color scheme, and in fact, the main page of that forum is considerably narrower in width, with other content running down the right side. Now I don't claim this site to be an aesthetic triumph by any stretch, but what was more attractive about the look before? It was a sea of gray with 2 yellow strips, top and bottom, and purple buttons that didn't match another thing on the entire site. It's not like it was in the running for "best eye-candy site" or anything. And the only reason those colors remain now, is because they existed here before.

Sometimes JPnyc it's the subtle things...sometimes the little things make all the difference in the world...
I believe you'd see a huge jump in acceptance if you gave it depth...like I suggested before...it's too flat and bland...regardless of Neg's paranoia I'm actually trying to help.

And it's not for JupMed who I consider morally corrupt for not anting up a measly $25000 to help one of their own when they recorded record profits of 33 milllion in their first quarter...but..

For my own reasons.

Eg ;)

And I appreciate it and want to better understand what exactly is missing from the aesthetics that webdeveloper has, or that this site had before. There can't be more depth on webdev because it's the same interface with different colors. No other special tweaks were made there, other than coloring the buttons to match the site. But here there is a precedent for having blue, in that it exists in the script header logo. I will trim them to make them more cosmetically appealing, the moment I have the time.

I thought you didn't sweat the small things, yet here you have been for 4 days straight whining about "depth". You're good at trying to make it look like you're speaking for the majority, while I seriously doubt that the majority of those who are really interested in what AO has to offer care about aestethical "depth".

Neg...do you really think I care what you think...so, I'm a whiner in your eyes...I'm sure I'll lose sleep over it.

If you don't want my opinions..or if JPnyc doesn't want my opinions on this matter...then I'll be happy keeping them to myself.

Good luck!

I do wanna hear em! (er, read 'em). I do, that's why I'm asking. I usually try to listen and react to feedback from users.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Negative

aestethical

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Cool..Neg I see you are using Firefox as well eh, my spellchecker don't work either...:D

Hi JPnyc,

I would add some basic shadows...under the bars...nothing overwhelming...a blueish shadow ( not a black or grey one ) it'll help bring the blue down into the forum and make the buttons look more in place making the blue a constant rather than an afterthought ; clean up those buttons like you said; and a bar under the last post which presently there isn't one, it looks like it's unfinished.

If you do those simple things I think it'll look a lot nicer...and you'll see a much better overall reaction.

Eg ;)

You mean under the yellow bars on this posting level, or the main forum and thread level? Or all of the above? Thanks

All of the above...it doesn't need to be very prominent...just a subtle shadow to bring it out.

Eg ;)

Ok, I'll kick that around too. The buttons look that way because they're really not designed to be on on such a dark grey background. That's why I've never noticed that issue before. But that can also be cleaned up in any graphics program. thanks - JP

No problem...I think once you test and see it yourself you'll see the difference. ;)

Just too bad the RSS is still broken ..

I want my feed back ;)

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Originally Posted by the_JinX

I want my feed back ;)

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You don't post enough and aren't here often. How's that for feed back ;)

I was a bit shocked by the upgrade at first and I haven't been around enough to see ALL the changes. However, I am getting around just fine. I like the layout and I really like how fast the site seems now. The posts and edits are almost instant where as before they took "forever".

It'll just take me some adjusting. Well, that and me posting questions in the "about antionline" forum with "How the fsck do I do X or Y?".

The one feature that I really liked at first was "cool! no more ads". Then I opened the site in IE and there they were! Doh!

Oh, I really like the posting/editing interface now.
Its much easier to format posts.

Oh, did they bring over a spell check?

Is there a "changelog" or "todo log" of sorts? So I can refer to what actually has chagned or what is to come instead of asking tons of questions?

Sorry for so many questions... and THANKS for bringing back the "delete" function.

You can ask any and all questions that pop into your head (about the FORUM, for all the wiseguys here lol), I will be glad to answer any I can. Yes, there is a spell check in this version. If you enable full editing controls in your userCP, options page, you will see a little check mark with abc above it. That's the spell check.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JPnyc

You can ask any and all questions that pop into your head (about the FORUM, for all the wiseguys here lol)

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You so just dodged a bullet ;)

Momma didn't raise no dummies ;)

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Originally Posted by JPnyc

Momma didn't raise no dummies ;)

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Complacency is the enemy ;)

I thought it was the IRS, but ok! :D

Wow. Finally upgraded.

The work involved must be a total pain in the ass.

One question. Why didn't you opt for 3.6.x? It's just as much work...

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Originally Posted by Negative

Can you say "hidden agenda"...

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Noooooo. Never. =)

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Originally Posted by Egaladeist

clean up those buttons

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eg,

the vbulletin site running 3.6.2 is also having the same buttons. i copied the button to my pc and it ended up with that white border. Its the grey post background which is the culprit. vbulletin uses a different background so it doesnt show up there.

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/

JP,

Just curious. Why are we on 3.5.4 when there are refinements as far as 3.6.2 available?

JP. These guys do vbstyles. http://www.vbstyles.com/ This is one of the forums designed by them http://forums.tybcom.com/

Another solution is to grab the 2.x skin from vb.org, grab the SDK (to change the buttons and stuff) and woo hoo... looks just like the old one but with the new features.

*crawls outof the shadows*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Negative

I thought you didn't sweat the small things, yet here you have been for 4 days straight whining about "depth". You're good at trying to make it look like you're speaking for the majority, while I seriously doubt that the majority of those who are really interested in what AO has to offer care about aestethical "depth".

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ill have to second his opinion.

3.6.2 wasn't out yet when we did the 1st attempt in dev. Since that's what we tested, that's what we could predict, so we went with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JPnyc

3.6.2 wasn't out yet when we did the 1st attempt in dev. Since that's what we tested, that's what we could predict, so we went with it.

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Ah okay, that makes sense then.

Good luck with the upgrade. I bet ImpEx took forever to run...

Holy moly, a SarinMage sighting. How are things going?

We couldn't use any of their import scripts. This site was so customized it was no longer a vbulletin forum. We had to do most field imports one at a time, with custom import scripts. Even the database was changed from the original.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JPnyc

We couldn't use any of their import scripts. This site was so customized it was no longer a vbulletin forum. We had to do most field imports one at a time, with custom import scripts. Even the database was changed from the original.

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Yikes. I feel pretty bad for you. That must of taken forever and day manually. My hat goes off to you for pulling something off this complex and cuss-word evoking.

Looks like there is tons of work left to be done... I can see some all nighters with lots of coffee and cold pizza...

Wow...

mnstrgrl worked on the database dump for 48 hrs straight. I did the skin in dev, and added the plugins that we did use, then created the modules for the main page. Then before it went live, corrected most of the forum permissions, which didn't transfer over. Beyond the customization issues, vb stopped supporting 2.x a while back so the script wasn't even designed to work with that version to begin with.