Updates have exploits too, every password can be cracked, only takes time and porcessing power !Quote:
all updated ,and a strong password? Surely thats 100% secure.
And windows isn't a multiuser OS ? I better delete those other accounts then...tx
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Updates have exploits too, every password can be cracked, only takes time and porcessing power !Quote:
all updated ,and a strong password? Surely thats 100% secure.
And windows isn't a multiuser OS ? I better delete those other accounts then...tx
My answer would be Gentoo, Stage 1. Yeah it's a whole week [if you say yours is really old and low on memory] but I think it could help you get the most out of your box. It's not as intimidating as you might've heard, the install helpfile does wonders [plus the IRC support during install].Quote:
Originally posted here by AngelicKnight
Oh...I was one of those poor souls who had RedHat 7.x. :) I upgraded to 9.0, but then I couldn't get the dang updates to finish. I left it sitting a whole day and it never would complete, and that's on DSL...I'm not sure what the deal was, may have been a "User error. Replace user." kinda error.
Anyway, which incarnation of Linux would you guys recommend for an old box with really. really low memory? I have Redhat 9.0 on it now (not the same installation from the prior paragraph), but it's so pathetically low on memory that I could only install text-based Linux, so no GUI for me.
Now for my few cents worth... I don't like MicroSoft. Their business practices, their bullshit, the corporate thing. But I still try to be objective when it comes to comparing Linux and Windows, because personal opinions are only important when it comes to choosing what OS you want to use at home.
With the increasing spread of Windows on home and business computers the importance of security hit the unexperienced computer user as a hammer over the hand. From the ocassional grandmother using the computer to send e-mails to the hardrock-listening boy next door, more and more become aware of how easily it is to break into a computer. A computer. So more and more applications that almost anybody can use [no matter how computer-illiterate they are] are developed, many free, to help secure the OS. Except for virii and worms, most intrusions on home-users' Windows machines are made by script kiddies using age-old tools.
Now the fact that the user has no clue on what some of these tools do means the machines might be clobbered and hard to use, which stimulates chipmakers to come out with something new. More money spent in computing power. But that's not necessarily the OS's fault, both Windows and Linux allow the user to secure it if the user is so inclined on doing it.
I agree with gore about the [general] bullshit in those articles, however that's standard marketing procedure, and except for some home users most people know better then to simply trust a marketing survey. Some sys-admins would not want to switch to a Linux environment because they only have their MCSE's and whatnot. They wouldn't feel confortable with a whole lot of new things to learn, when [as far as their job is concerned] Windows is good enough. For others the process of switching would mean losing money, but as already pointed out, the same would happen when switching from Linux to Windows in a server environment.
As for updates I think most large distros take care of updates in a nice manner. I'm biased towards the Gentoo emerge/portage system [:)], but the RedHat one used to do the job well most of the time. However it seems that's not enough, I had somebody ask me what updates are [o.O] and what would you need to do to get them. This was on a sweet Toshiba Satellite laptop with Win XP and a wide-screen... some people shouldn't be allowed computers :S
Quote:
Originally posted here by Wav
Updates have exploits too, every password can be cracked, only takes time and porcessing power !
And windows isn't a multiuser OS ? I better delete those other accounts then...tx
Unless you have XP, 2000, NT, or Windows Server 2003, then no, it is in fact not multi user. Every password can be cracked? hmm, silly me, and here I thought Quantum Encryption was going to be the one.
What the hell is porcessing? I'll say Processing, and assume that was what you meant, even though I don't like making just assumptions. Anyway, I doubt anyone here has a machine in their homes that would be able to crack a password with more than 256 Bit or 512 bit Encryption. By the time it finished the processor would have burned through the board.
Updates... Heh.
He has a point about running no services. I can take a Trustix box, which doesn't have X at all, run NO server applications, pop up a firewall after updating all software, and I doubt anyone would break in. The only reason I picked Trustix over a Windows OS is because in an OS based on Windows you need some services for the machine to run.
All software created by human beings has a possibility for exploitation. Humans make mistakes, and all it takes is a will to want, and someone will exploit it. My Trustix example, I use that because it's made with security i mind, and no one short of the very best Hackers on the internet would get far.
You just can not break into a computer through services it isn't running.
windows NT has a C2 rating with no Network cable.... How the hell that was a big deal I'm not sure as it's a NOS, and no Network cable would sort of kill the point.
I've said before that the most secure program in the world was:
int main()
{
return 0 ;
}
Doesn't do a damned thing but it should compile.
Of course that being the most secure program is a joke, but I've yet to see anyone exploit it.
A little off topic:
I just installed PC - DOS 6.3 on an Intel 2.40 GHz Processor machine with 512 MB RAM and an 80 GB HD. Of course it only looks at 2 Gigs of it, but the damn thing booted!
I had a laugh about it with Horse13 earlier.
Anyway, every peice of code in RAM can be a downfall. I guess in theory you could help secure a machine by shutting down what you don't use. ;)
I love you gore, you're so smart and caught my spelling mistake ! Thank you !
I don't know about the CPU, but I sure as hell would be dead by the time that password is cracked.Quote:
Originally posted here by gore
Anyway, I doubt anyone here has a machine in their homes that would be able to crack a password with more than 256 Bit or 512 bit Encryption. By the time it finished the processor would have burned through the board.
And what if I make a typo when writing the brute-forcing code? :S
I posted the below quote in this thread earlier today. I have read every post in this thread. (a very good and well mannered thread too) I think I should have read this thread first as my post in that thread may be better discussed in this one. :D
/me dons his asbestos underoos in anticipation of a warm response...
Quote:
posted Today 01:13 PM
(post #21)
Ponder this for a moment or two folks. What would we be using right now if Bill Gates/Microsoft had never existed? UNIX existed before windows, and still exists now. In fact MSDOS was based on UNIX, and it eventually evolved into Windows. I honestly believe that we would be using something very similar to windows. We all know that there has to be something that the elderly, or other "digitally challenged" individuals could use to surf the net, and get e-mail on. I have a linux (Slackware) box and a Win2K box. I use the Slackware box for surfing the net , thats it. My windows box is my main computer that I use every day for everything. I am not really sure why I continue to use my linux box (probably just so I can say I have one ) I have not ever been to Best Buy, or Circuit City, or any other software supplier that has any applications, games or otherwise, exclusively for linux. For that matter, I have never played any game that was actually worth a sh*t, except for Unreal Tournament, that will even install on a linux box. I really do wish that all of the *NIX programmers and experts that continue to boast here in these forums and around the world, would actually develop some new and exciting applications and games to back up their views. If these things were available to the world market, like windows, and the games and applications that are now available, I would be the first one in line to purchase them.
aeallison, when it comes to general use applications Linux has a pretty good set of tools. You don't think that if I use Linux I don't write .doc files or am unable to view .avi movies. While maybe some of these apps might not posses the eye-candy or ease in installation as their Windows counter-parts, they get the job done in a very similar manner.
As for games you'd have to talk to the programmers working for those companies. It's not likely that a team of freelance coders would just set out on porting Need For Speed Underground out of the blue, infringing copyrights and licences and whatnot. And most of the time those companies don't consider the Linux market as a suitable place for games [with all the costs that go into marketing, porting the game, having different versions etc]. I for one couldn't tell you much about it, I have almost completely stopped playing games so I don't miss them :)
As for your first point I agree there must always be somebody stupid and somebody smart in the world, whatever domain you apply it too. Because it's a comparative scale it's normal to be differences. So it's likely that SCO would've been the top-dog if Gates didn't buy the code from his friend, and Linux the underdog. [:)] Either way, we don't need to speculate because it's of no use. Just like the 'what ifs' in history aren't of any learning value, this too is theoretical. I do understand your point in the sense that it is rather pointless to attack the topdog, but then again things work this way...
hypronix,
I am not bashing or defending either OS. I am fully aware that Linux has these "general use apps" that are quite capable of doing everything that windows can do. I am not into the "eye candy" either, I could care less how pretty the app is as long as it does what I want it to do.Quote:
when it comes to general use applications Linux has a pretty good set of tools. You don't think that if I use Linux I don't write .doc files or am unable to view .avi movies. While maybe some of these apps might not posses the eye-candy or ease in installation as their Windows counter-parts, they get the job done in a very similar manner.
I am an avid gamer, Need for Speed Underground is one of my favorites. As I stated in my post I would buy it if it were available as would many other people I know. I did not intend to sound like I was trying to organize some group of programmers to crack the code of existing windows software to work with Linux. I do, however, wish to someday in the near future see software that will work with the various Linux flavors. IMHO If the Linux developers would finish what they started so long ago, then the software developers wouldn't have any excuses to not make their games and apps compatable with Linux.Quote:
As for games you'd have to talk to the programmers working for those companies. It's not likely that a team of freelance coders would just set out on porting Need For Speed Underground out of the blue, infringing copyrights and licences and whatnot. And most of the time those companies don't consider the Linux market as a suitable place for games [with all the costs that go into marketing, porting the game, having different versions etc]. I for one couldn't tell you much about it, I have almost completely stopped playing games so I don't miss them
To clarify my opinion on finishing what they started. I have seen countless flavors of Linux on countless different machines, and countless opinions of which one is better by the people who built those machines. I have yet to see a single one that could be used by my 80 year old mother. She has no problems at all with windows and the way it operates. I had to teach her the basics, of course, but I don't think she could get past the login on a linux box reguardless of how many times I try to explain it to her. Is it not possible to build a linux system for the "digitally challenged"? I think it is. I also think it is way past the time to get it done.
Yeah a Linux system for the digitally challenged is easy to build, but it would be no better then a standard out-of-the-box Windows installation in the hands of the same of the same digitally challenged person. That is so because both OSes need to be secured by the user [in the case of home computers] and if there's nobody to at least help out on a kick-start the end result is the same.
No I wasn't thinking you're bashing any OS :) And, NFSU is one of the kickest-sickest-ass games I played too :) yes, on a Win machine, and it's probably the last game I played [though if NFSU2 for PC shows up...].
I can see where you're coming from on the part of the Linux devs, but it has to be understood that on a lot of items they don't get the same support thatWwindows does. Many drivers [e.g. graphics cards] need to be hacked. More and more 3rd party companies seem to be moving out of that sphere of Win-only, as demand increases. But for now we still have to deal with [some] hacked drivers which, although generally work fine, still lack the proper optimization that a driver with the full info sheet gets.
However, when it comes to games, as UT and CS have been ported, I guess more and more games will switch to the OS too. It is, however, an issue since many programmers can't cross-program? Some do, some don't, and habits die hard.
I've been without power.. so I'm slow in responding.. but anyways.. You are now changing the subject. We went from discussing the security merits of an OS to discussing what is secure out of the box.. When did that change occur? I would be stupid to argue with you about putting a stock install of say windows2000 with no service pack vs. putting up a stock install of open BSD.. so I'm not even going to do it, because you are right, I've seen it happen myself... but that doesn't speak at all about the potential security of the product, which is what I thought we were discussing..Quote:
You are right. AV has nothing to do directly with the operating system. yet if the operating system wasn't riddled with issues then agobot wouldn't be at version BAJ.(gaobot.BAJ). Yes this is a user issue because these systems are not patched. However if the operating system didn't use such a backhanded RPC communication system, this wouldn't be a problem. And you don't have to open untrusted content to get infected by worms. They spread by themselves. Considering that AV is required these days as a precaution, I'd have to say it matters a hell of a lot in a windows environment. If windows wasn't a virus breeding ground then viruses wouldn't be an issue. Yes linux has had worms viruses and it has more than it's fair share of rootkits, but I can stick an openbsd box on the net, totally unprotected, and it won't get hacked. if I throw a windows box up without AV and a firewall, and keep netbios enabled, that box will be compromised in 30 seconds to 2 minutes. yes, I have done that testing. As I will continue to point out, SP2 is a vast improvement, and it has already changed my opinion about the security in windows. It's only taken microsoft 20 years.
If your machine is current and patched you do. There has yet to be a current worm hit windows2k or XP that wasn't based off of an exploit disclosed by a security notice from MS themselves. When you have a really huge installed user base, and you come out and tell the world about a remotely exploitable bug of course a worm is going to come out that exploits it.. The same thing happens with *nix, no scratch that, ALL operating systems.Quote:
And you don't have to open untrusted content to get infected by worms.
edit- I will concede that IE needs to be ripped out of the OS as it is now.. Hopefully MS will start to improve IE as it is a big piece of poo..