End of the Universe Part Two

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Neg I know you're not stupid but a little belief doesn't hurt

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Actually, I believe it does hurt. I believe religion hurts science (if the evidence doesn't match up with your beliefs, you throw out the evidence rather than your beliefs), I believe it hurts morality (the bible is pathetic as a moral compass), and I believe it hurts humanity as a whole (every single conflict in the world, without exception, has its roots in religious discord). When's the last time you heard about an atheist killing someone for his or her beliefs?

Have you ever considered that the only reason you're a christian is that you were born in the US and not in, say, Pakistan? If you would have been born in Pakistan, you would declare that islam is the only true belief, and that those who do not share your beliefs will eternally burn in hell. You could say: "What if you're wrong, Neg?" - I believe the real question is "What if you're wrong?"

Actually I'm not that way because of where I was born. Believe me, when I was in high school I got called evil almost dailey saying I was going to burn for what I listened to, what I watched on TV and in movies, and because I swear a lot, and just like, everything people would assume I was like bad.

So I used to sit and think, what do I REALLY BELIEVE? And I Believe exactly what I say I Believe.I didn't agree with what people say on TV, I mean obviously, because I've seen TV Pastors saying that drugs are evil, where I Believe what it says in Genisis, which is that all seed bearing plants can be used for food, and Who made those plants.

So really it's not where I was born.

Are you really saying that if you would have been born in Pakistan, you would be a christian? Are you really saying that if you would have no access to a bible and that if your mommy and daddy would tell you from day 1 that islam is the only way to go and that all other religions are evil, you would somehow become a christian? How does that work? Divine intervention?

The "seed bearing plants" example is typical: you use what you like, you dismiss what you dislike. The bible is an excellent book for doing so, as it could be interpreted in any way you want to.

PS: I know that Pakistan has a christian minority. Fact is that it just magically happens to be so that most western countries are overwhelmingly christian (in theory, that is... the US is the only western country where religion is still going strong - all others are mainly secular), and most eastern countries muslim? That most southern countries are catholic? That the more north you go, and the more west (again with the exception of the US), the more secular? That is all coincidence to you, and not because of geography?

As the old saying goes, "It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it". Religion has long been a source of evil in the world (they seem to take turns), but it can also be a fine moral blueprint, in the right hands. I've seen examples of both.

From my perspective it makes only a slight difference which religion you subscribe to.

Well to me since I wasn't in Pakistan (Which if I was, yea I would still be, I'd just have my own little crops ;) ) but anyway, back to what I was saying, I think who you are isn't much on up-bringing as it is personality.

Aardosymon to have adapted in the first place it must have been near enough right. We could never have been born on something totally inhospitable.

And I don't think "just ok" sums up earth either. It's clear we've been given the ability to appreciate the beauty of the earth, which is not a trait needed for survival and plays no part in evolution. When I view the awesome wonders of nature, that alone makes me believe in God. We have more than simply adapted to environmental conditions on the planet.

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I think who you are isn't much on up-bringing as it is personality.

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That's not at all what you were saying, and it's irrelevant :p

Do you believe that you would be the same person you are now, with the same beliefs, if you would have been born in a fundamentalist muslim family in Pakistan? If your answer is "yes", then you'd be a unique case. If your answer is "no" (and I really hope it is before I start doubting your sense of reality), then there is a tiny problem, no?

Neg, I really don't ever think about it. You weren't born in a Muslim family as far as I know, but you aren't one of those or as it appears anything else when it comes to all of this.

I don't think you've ever said your family has no real beliefs either, but what I mean is, I really don't think what your family taught you has much to do with who you are.

It weighs in on it sure, but I don't think it's everything. I have family without belief in anything, and they talk about it often, but I believe what makes sense to me inside, not what someone told me I should.

If I was born there it's hard to say what decisions I'd have made, I really don't know, or care. It could have been me being born in Michigan and everything that ever happened to me that made me touch a keyboard for the first time, or pick up a bass or grow my hair out.

Isn't that sort of like chaos theory? One thing can change everything?

"The thing that's really going to cook your noodle....."

The scene in the Matrix where Neo meets the Oracle for the first time.

Imagine knowing the outcome of a minor change, would you do it or would you 'time out" worrying about all of the repercussions?

What if God was an Atheist...chicken and the egg who came first, who created God?...