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I'm not Jewish, nor do I know their rules; it was merely an example. Don't take it to personally ... especially if you know you've stole something.Quote:
Cutting off a hand for that? Sounds like Islam's law, I don't know that Judaism had that tenet, did it? Far too extreme for me. Make the punishment fit the crime.
I'm not Jewish, nor do I know their rules; it was merely an example. Don't take it to personally ... especially if you know you've stole something.Quote:
Cutting off a hand for that? Sounds like Islam's law, I don't know that Judaism had that tenet, did it? Far too extreme for me. Make the punishment fit the crime.
I would like to point out the fact that evil is all perceptive. It is defined by society, or in many cases, religion. Take the WTC bombing for example. We consider this to be an act of pure evil and hatred. Members of the Al Qaeda (and contrary to popular belief, many of the Afghan people) believe that this was payback, and even necessary. You must remember that we have done things to them in the past that they consider evil and we don't. Back when Russia was at war with Afghanistan, we gave aid to the groups that were fighting back. After the Russians retreated, those groups split into two major groups; the Al Qaeda (Taliban), and the Northern Alliance. These groups took over government of the country, with the Taliban controlling about 90% of the country. They blame this fighting on the fact that we did not help them rebuild after they were done doing the dirty work for us. Let us also not forget the times that we have desecrated their holy lands. They consider all that to be evil, while we don't. The only things you perceive as evil are those that you are told so to do, whether by society, family, or religion. Christianity has defined most of those things you consider to be evil. So for just a second, let's assume that Christianity is wrong. All those definitions of good and evil are pretty worthless, then, aren't they? Just for a second, assume there is no god. At this point, nothing really matters in the big picture. It doesn't matter whether or not you kill or rape or torture, because in the BIG picture, none of it makes any difference. We have no grasp on events. We're helpless, and our very existence is pointless.Quote:
Originally posted by preacherman481
Knowledge is fine. That's one reason I come to this site-- to gain more knowledge about computers. But knowledge can only take us so far. Science has multiplied our knowledge in manifold ways, but it hasn't made us any better morally. It hasn't taken the evil out of human hearts. It's only given us bigger and better machines to kill each other with.
I hope I'm making sense to everybody. :dunce:
I assume that must of the laws and morals we have come from God. God has built into us the capacity for conscience, and as our conscience is educated by the standards of God's word, we have the capacity to act morally. Yes, apart from God's revealed standards, right and wrong basically is one person's opinion against another's. Right is whoever wins the war and writes the history books says it is. But, as you already know, I believe there is a God. And whatever God says is right is right, and what God says is wrong-- is wrong. My own opinion matters very little. What matters is God's perception. If there is no God, maybe our existence is pointless. But if there is a God, and I believe there is, our existence has purpose. We were made to glorify him. That is the real purpose of our existence.
Yes, that's true, but if we knew for sure that Christianity was right, there would be no point in debating this. It would all be laid out for us neat and pretty like. Although I have serious doubts about Christianity, I try to follow the majority of its values on conduct. I feel that the majority of these are very good ideals to follow, as long as you don't get obsessed with them. I try to follow these ideals, but I don't let them interfere with my life too much. However, other people perceive laws of morlaity differently, and conduct themselves accordingly. That is the point I was trying to make.
*sigh*
School's getting crazy. Life's getting crazy. And I've decided to spend less time on this thread than I have been. If you are genuinely interested in Christianity, please send me a message or email and I'll be happy to answer any questions you have. Otherwise, this is it for me on this thread. It's been great. It's just that I find it to be a complete waste of time to argue something that everyone has a predisposition against. Since everyone (or most everyone) already "knows" Christianity to be a lie, they can't truthfully examine it and give it another chance.
I'm out.
God bless,
--PhirePhreak
That's exactly what this thread is about mate... to truthfully examine and give it another chance if we choose to do so. This thread wasn't to make converts, or to screw over religion in any way - and besides, this is the Cosmos Forum... :)Quote:
Since everyone (or most everyone) already "knows" Christianity to be a lie, they can't truthfully examine it and give it another chance.
Peace
-[WebCarnage]
Sad to see you go, PhirePhreak...
A few last considerations... (speaking just for myself here, not for anyone else):
* I don't have predispositions against christianity. The values christianity stands for, are common sense (and I ain't talking about a Greater Common Sense here).
The question is not whether christianity is a lie or not, the question is what God has to do with it... It's a good thing that you don't need 'proof' for that aspect of your belief, but some of us do...
* I find argueing about something that everyone has a predisposition against a learning experience...
The kinds of discussions we're having here, are not about winning or loosing, they are about questioning your own views, testing them against other people's views, making your OWN MIND up about what you want to believe and what you don't want to believe. It's not about trying to change other people's points of views.
If you consider your point of view to be beyond questioning, or if you don't want to discuss your points of view, you'll never find your own truth...
Just thought I would add my 2ยข to this discussion, which I must say has gone remarkable well! Congrats to all!
My Thoughts -
I am a Unitarian Universalist (www.uua.org), and I believe that communal spirtuality has a value to the individual.
However I am not a Christian (or a member of the other "Revealed Word" religions [Islam/Jewdism] is that I cannot believe in a God who would create Evil, and then punish those who choose other than he/she/it wishes. If God needs my worship, why does he allow doubt? I also can't believe in a god who allows so much evil, for it seems to me that such a god would be evil him/her self.
I also don't believe in the bible, as it was created by human hands. Writen by "Moses" and the the "Matthew", "Mark", "Luke", and "John" and then ratified in its current form by the council of Nicea in 379. The Bible is to far from the word of god to base a life on.
Anywho, just my humnble opinion.
After reading jcmcb's post, I was reminded of a thought that I once had that I tried to explain to a devout Christian.
God is good, correct? Lucifer(the Fallen Angel, Morning Star, Satan, whichever) is bad, correct?
Here's my thoughts...I am inclined to believe in a duality in all existence. Hence, I believe that 'good' and 'evil' resides in all things. In the beginning...God was all that there was, then he created Earth and the Angels...Lucifer rebelled, and was cast down. With me so far? Where did the 'evil' that was born into Lucifer come from? Must have been God, since he created all things, right? God had 'evil' in him at one point, which was borne by Lucifer, who was cast down. BUT, from my understanding, the Angels were not given free will. How is this possible? Was Lucifer created specifically in order to bear 'evil'?
Sorry if I am delving too deeply into the story, but nobody else that I know has thus far has had the capacity to answer that question honestly(partly because they don't know what I'm talking about...Christians, indeed;)), and I hope I can tap a mind or two here to shed some light and voice a few thoughts...:) The whole of the Christian culture holds many interesting paradoxes and truths that many ignore(or just haven't realized), and I, for one, enjoy pondering them instead of outright dismissing them.
Ouroboros