They were too busy trying to get a good angle for their camera phones.
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They were too busy trying to get a good angle for their camera phones.
in the UK, we don't put military into civilian areas, they are explicitly stopped from operating on home soil ......... UNLESS the PrimeMinister of the day so orders it.Quote:
At the time I remember a commentator on TV saying that the SAS were working with SO19.
they merely provided training expertise, and that was in the days of PT17 [SO19 as was]
And as for the dead mans family :
they have just turned down a £500 000 offer from Scotland Yard, saying they were not prepared to be 'gagged' from speaking out ..............
UK police are not allowed to talk about it [sub-judice] but every one else gets a free shot [no pun]
any ideas that the family are in it for the 'honourable' reasons are now gone ...........
500 000 is WAY more than the UK puts on a life.
Just read about the US where a widow has received $140 MILLION for the loss of her husband due to the meds he was on giving him a stroke ..............
jeez, what a world we live in ............
Govt set it up that way (malpractice/wrongful death lawsuits) for us to take advantage of.......
even if it is unethical.
well, if i saw police enter on a train, arrest a guy and shot him several times i wouldnt take eitherQuote:
Originally posted here by Kthln01
i find it hard to believe that not one person on that train said anything after this happened.
people usually cant wait to get their 15 minutes (seconds) of fame.
Sorry for "resurrecting"(bad word) this thread, but it looks like the left are going to get their wish and have this investigated.Inquirey
But I read this article and figured I would see what the members of AO had to say about it, so searched and found this thread, very interesting reading the comments back and forth, and the different perspectives people have.
I would agree with the "Shoot to Kill" orders, too late to go back in time, if they don't and the guy does turn out to be a suicide bomber.(err on the side of caution?)(pretty ruthless,but a lot of people got to go home that day).
Having said that, I feel after following this story since it broke, that it was more or less down to adrenaline, the fact a suspect starts to run for whatever reason starts to get those pursuing, juices going and from what you read (testimonials from cops who have been involved in shootings)(or even high speed chases where there are fatalities) it is a hard thing to control.
Also the fact that it was only days before, that London experienced the other bombings, so everyone is on edge, and I cannot comprehend what it must of felt like for those cops to chase a possible bomb which at any moment could go off, what was going through their minds.( I would hazard a guess and say they were scared sh**tless).
No.......... Police Officer, I would assume takes great pleasure in the taking of a life.
I hope for those involved, that this inquirey does not do the whitewash routine and produce scapegoats (sacrifical lamb).
This all sort of ties in to the debate going on in the UK wether to arm constables or not, I believe they should all be armed, gone are the days of the noble bobby walking a beat and being friends with everyone in the neighbourhood....the criminals are outgunning the cops, the guns are getting into the country.
Kinda 20-20 but maybe if the plainsclothes cops had of had a career at carrying sidearms at all times, maybe the scenario would have been played out differently???
As for the victims family, the pot is going to get bigger.
Just to comment on the comments made by the guy from Brasil, this country is rife with criminals, wether they are wearing a uniform or not, Sh*t I would bet half if not more of the army are on the take, or even the politicians, their view of the sanctity of life is not the same as the western worlds view (US/UK/Canada/some European Countries).
Amnesty InternationalQuote:
Police killings, extrajudicial executions and ‘death squads’
Public and media concern at high levels of urban violence and crime continued to drive underfunded, poorly trained and often corrupt police forces to the further use of repressive methods. Members of the military and civil police were again responsible for thousands of deaths across the country. Many of these killings reportedly took place in situations which indicated excessive use of force or extrajudicial execution. The killings were rarely investigated as they were often registered as “resistance followed by death”, a characterization that frequently sought to blame the victim. According to the São Paulo police Ombudsman’s office, police killings in the state numbered 703 by October, matching the total for the whole of 2001. Of these killings, 652 were registered as “resistance followed by death”, 138 of which were attributed to off-duty police officers. In Rio de Janeiro 656 killings by the police had been registered by September, already outstripping the previous year’s total of 592. “Death squads” reportedly continued to act with impunity in certain states, with the participation or collusion of members of the police.
notice the words "resistance followed by death" I wander if they were shouting Stop Police at the time.
Hi dalek,
Reviving an old thread are we? :p
Like I said...it was reported that the cops ' dived ' on the suspect...like a soldier might dive on a enemy holding a grenade to prevent harm to his buddies...the ulimate act of heroism...to sacrifice yourself for your fellow man.
The mere fact they were wrong does not change that...anymore than if that grenade turned out to be a dud or just a pack of smokes that looked like a grenade.
Absolutely! ;)Quote:
I would agree with the "Shoot to Kill" orders, too late to go back in time, if they don't and the guy does turn out to be a suicide bomber.(err on the side of caution?)(pretty ruthless,but a lot of people got to go home that day).
Eg ;)
Like i said previously, isnt a "mere fact". An innocent was killed.Quote:
...The mere fact they were wrong does not change that...
If your opinion is that a cop can kill someone "by mistake" and say "oopps, sorry! I killed you" without no further consequences, wellcome to Brasil. After 10 years of this new "Policy" implemented at your country, please come back here to share your opinion. Of course if you are still alive :).
I could agree with there was such thing, but it wasnt. No "object", no "act",no "run, no "jump", nothing.Quote:
...anymore than if that grenade turned out to be a dud or just a pack of smokes that looked like a grenade.
Hi cacosapo,
That is as much cultural in Brazil as it is in other nations with similar histories...it would not translate the same way here...as we have a different cultural history...
Senerio...
your kids are on the bus on the way to school...someone reports the new bus driver is the Mad Bomber...police circle the bus and the description matches perfectly, right down to the large brown paper bag he hides the bombs in...he's targeted children before...snipers have a good shot...
do you let them take it?
Maybe it's not the guy...maybe that's just his lunch...maybe he's not responding to police because he's just scared sh!tless...do you take the shot or not?
Eg ;)
I'd take the shot....with the lives of a bus load of kids weighed in the balance...the order would be if you have a clear shot...take it!
Looks like it's spreading : Funny...he doesn't look like a Brazillian :p
on a more serious note. I cannot imagine Britain with a fully armed Police force.....
I DO see the need for more armed response teams, AND the need to let them get on with what they are trained for .................
thing is amigo, you are talking "Past Tense" (could be a lang prob???)http://spanish.about.com/library/beg..._imperfect.htmQuote:
I could agree with there was such thing, but it wasnt. No "object", no "act",no "run, no "jump", nothing
These individuals had to make a split decision at the time (split=nano sec) they don't have the luxury that armchair quarterbacks have, oh poor sod, should have done it this way, or if that had of been me, I would have done this bull.
If the guy had a hard on I might mistake it for a weapon, and depending on his intentions, blow his brains out. :p
Concealed weapons are just that"concealed" hidden from view, can't see it!!! so when the chips are down, and I have to only go on the "assumption" that the perp has a concealed weapon and that lives are at stake, then guess what, he is going down.(I certainly don't like to ass u me anything, if I can aviod it).
My hope is that if the intelligence was of such a mess, then those responsible for the dissemination of said intelligence get the stocks, and not those on the ground.
The buck stops here!!! I would hope that if ministarial approval was obtained for the shoot that day, that the person responsible for those orders, be the ones to carry the blame.
I think the blokes who did the shooting have suffered enough, they also have families, they are probably in the midst of losing a lot more then just sleep at this time, now that their will be public inquirey, their every waking moment will be to watch this scenario play out time and time again. That to me is a living hell.
Oh yeah even 10 yrs or 20yrs from now you would still not be able to compare England (UK) with that of South America, maybe when "Pigs Fly" (Do not mention Pink Floyd).
Foxy
Just saw the pic :p (brutal)