Carnivore/DSC1000

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Anyone can be a suspect (and I'm not talking about e-mails only). Whatever your a suspect of, if they find that you didn't do it, they can't hold it against you that they made a mistake thinking it was you. If your best friend gets murdered, probably you'll be a suspect straight away, but if you didn't do it and they find the person who did, then you did nothing wrong. You were a suspect...but no longer are.

I still strongly believe that if you don't have any bad intentions to break the law - why worry about them reading your e-mails...bugger them, let em read it.

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That's easy for you to say, if you're really from Australia. If I'm talking to a friend over email about any first-person-shooter and I say "Hey dude, I'm gonna go blow up that building with c4 and then using poison gas, I'm gonna infiltrate the White House to capture the President...", my email will be marked as suspicious and when read by some agent somewhere, I'll be then monitored even more for 'terrorist activity' when all I'm doing is talking about a video game. And this is just one example...

Privacy is something I like to think that we all have to a degree, whether online or irl. Now, with this supposed carnivore attempt, what's the point of having "encryption" to any degree when the FBI reads mail? You think it stops there? Soon, they'll be mapping invisible network drives to your machine so they can sift through your files. And what happens when someone breaks into them, with access to all these open network drives? Suddenly, people's quicken accounts, personal information, etc etc is now out of the bag.

This isn't a good idea. Not in it's simplest form is it a good idea. There are other better ways to do this. As it is, any smart terrorist would know not to use a computer after the media spreads the word on carnivore, and you know they will.

Oh yeah, one last note...if they scanned message boards for suspcious activity, this message I just did would set off alarms, and all we're doing is talking about it.

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Oh yeah, one last note...if they scanned message boards for suspcious activity, this message I just did would set off alarms, and all we're doing is talking about it.

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Yes, ok, say it did set off alarms, then what?? I'm presuming they wouldn't come straight to your house and arrest you huh? If it did set off some serious alarms, they might look into it and notice that it's just a post and discard it (or save it, or whatever)...does it matter??

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Privacy is something I like to think that we all have to a degree, whether online or irl. Now, with this supposed carnivore attempt, what's the point of having "encryption" to any degree when the FBI reads mail? You think it stops there? Soon, they'll be mapping invisible network drives to your machine so they can sift through your files. And what happens when someone breaks into them, with access to all these open network drives? Suddenly, people's quicken accounts, personal information, etc etc is now out of the bag.

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I totally agree with that, I think privacy is important. But I'm talking about reading e-mails. If they want to expand from reading e-mails to gaining access to files, I believe this is wrong. But simply scanning and occasionally reading e-mails is all they are gonna do, I don't see nothing wrong with that. You never know...it could actually prevent another act of terrorism - might be a slim chance, but it's still a chance.

Greg

I understand you're talking about reading emails but I know that the FBI wouldn't just stop there. When is the line drawn when a government is given that kind of power? Remember Sneakers? That equipment was useless unless used against it's own people/country? That's what's happening here, or will happen, where the government can condone anything it does because "it's in the best interest of the people". Where is this "best interest" voted for? Definitely not out in the open by the gross population but inside congress, the house of reps, the senate, etc...by people who probably don't ever use computers to any degree, which makes "reading emails for suspicious content" a lot more approvable. Also, these people, if they do use computers on a regular basis, wouldn't be monitored, you can guarantee that. That right there raises the age-old question of "Who watches the watchers?". Hell, there's even a comic about that.

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely". (forgot who said that)

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Lord Acton, in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton, 1887. 'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men'.

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http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/meanings/22900.html

I didn't know either, so I thought I'd look it up.

I've recently read that Carnivore/DSC1000 does not work on keywords but rather on mis-spellings..... Specific changes in words to be exact, I forgot where i read this though.
I remeber some of the examples were from elite to 31337 or l33t.... It was weird... If anyone knows what Im talking about reply with the link

hot_ice, like you i have nothing to hide, i never use encryption unless its requested. anybody that comes to my house can use my computer with no restriction, i don't care. like i said i have nothing to hide.

i respect your opinion as much as i respect freedom and if most people feel like you then, so mote it be.

i just think everone shoud have all the facts to decide for them selfs.

right now all telephone conversation are moniter for key words. they, and in this case the 'they' can be pointed to, want to put homing type devices on all cell phones. EZ-pass, although passed off as something to just speed up trafic, is actually part on a bill that clinton signed, as part of an "its" system, or intelligent transportation system designed to moniter the "internal security" of our nations hyways, if this is a good thing why isn't it publisized as such. their watching us. Major companys can have echelons database queried for their purposes.
i can go on and on but i don't want to bore you too much.

Now im not saying that this is a plot, but the devices are in place and ripe for some ambitious person or group to make a move. What would have happened if devices like this were in place in colonial america, or during the workers rebellion. we'd still be a colony and working 36 hour days.

Nobody should have this kind of power.

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Nobody should have this kind of power.

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I absolutely agree with that. Having too much power often leads to bad things. (Same thing that Vorlin said - "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"). Checking e-mail is just a small area that the FBI can monitor. They have the power to monitor much more, and that I think is going too far.

It all reminds me of the movie 'Enemy of the State' (with Will Smith and Gene Hackman) - very good movie too, one of my fav's :)

Greg

to who said "i dont care because i have nothing to hide"...i would say you are rather nieve. even if you have nothing to hide, they can still do lots of things to you. there is nothing to stop them from having you "taken care of" if they think you are a threat but cant prove it...with these recent crap laws about terrorism, all they really need is to have you declared a terrorist and you go befor the military, not the real courts. that means, no rights. they find you guilty and kill you.

situations with these social feelings and laws are what leads to "Hitlers" comming to power.

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...they find you guilty and kill you.

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I really don't think it's gonna happen. Sending one e-mail that may have some 'keywords' that the carnivore picks up isn't gonna get you killed. I really think that's just exagerating it a tad too far.

Greg

Wanna know some more about Echelon? Here´s a report to the European parliament (from the Scientific and technical options assessment department) in a .pdf from the offical EC page.
Have a look

And here´s a picture with the (but not al?)signal stations around the world.
The picture

*note* this is not just made to monitor e-mails but every kind of electronic communication. (fax, mobile phones etc.)