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why would anyone want to clone a human? don't we have enough people on this planet we can't take care of now?
Cloning organs from cells or growing skin is fantastic, but an entire human. what for?
Somebody can't have children, so why force them to give an orphan a home when we can whip one up in the lab. screw the homeless.
Take that research money and feed the starving.
That's a very good point. I had never really given the social implications of human cloning a thought. But as pointed out previously, we are still a long way off cloning an entire human. Probably wont happen in our lifetime, although I'm kinda hoping I'm around to see the results. It's more "human organs" at this point in time. Just imagine, a cure for cancer or other such marvellous medical breakthoughs....:)Quote:
Originally posted by Tedob1
why would anyone want to clone a human? don't we have enough people on this planet we can't take care of now?
hmmm so very true, but then again there are ways of fixing the worlds population control problem without being what us americans call "inhumane"Quote:
don't we have enough people on this planet we can't take care of now?
More often than not, in most small overpopulated countries it is simply due to no birth control. This is because the Catholic church has always been against it. I'm not against catholics (half my family is hardcore catholic) but a lot of their ideas need work. as do most religions.
back to the subject here... in many cases where a full test subject is needed, a simple cloned cell or even many cloned cells is not enough for proper diagnosis. Sure they can test on a human, but that would also be considered inhumane as well. This is the controversy. If I were chosen as a test subject for some new cancer cure, I would carefully revue everything before answering... the sad thing is, I would automatically assume that theyre not telling me something. This is the image that medical science has created themselves. I would most likely say "No" because of this fact. A lot of people would.
It gets hard to find willing test subjects. Cloning sounds easier, but I dont think the tradeoffs are worth it at all. The medical industry needs to build a more "honerable" reputation, and place care ahead of $$ to sway the negative views and perhaps more people will be willing to be test subjects themselves.
just a thought
~THEJRC~
I hate to start a post this way, but...
I fail to see the distinction. That's one thing that bothers me about human beings...since we can think and reason like no other species on the planet, that automatically makes us superior to everything?Quote:
Originally posted by Remote_Access_
This is where the proverbial "line" needs to be drawn. It's one thing to do research and experiments with animals but when you start useing unborn human cells for a mad lab experiment you need to realize that this is where the line need to be drawn.
Anyways...human cloning, eh? I say go for it. Since I, amongst others, am not the religious sort, I see no moral injustice or ethical fault involved in it. I would assume if a divine being truly stuck us on this rock, s/he would want us to learn as much as we could to be closer to her/him, since s/he would be the possessor of all knowledge. Don't ya think so?
Waddaya mean the world is ROUND?!?
Ouroboros
IMHO progress is inevitable wether we want it or not, but we are able to shape the way it goes to a large extent.
So far in history most radical new ideas which are commonplace today were once thought of as being rediculous and the people coming up with them ither insane or immoral.
One of the major things blown out of proportion by the general media with cloning is the idea of cloning a complete human. Theoretically possible, but by 99.9% of scientists not very practical. The idea is to clone the needed parts with identical DNA (or very similar)(ie from the embryo) so as to make replacement as smooth as possible. Admittedly there are those that would like to clone entire humans, but again IMHO they will either succeed and be praised, or flamed off the face of the planet.
<Attaches asbestos vest>
Another questions to consider,
"It is ok to clone animals but not humans, cloning humans is the point where the proverbial line should be drawn"
My question is........ What makes an animal life less valuable than a human life, or a human life any more important? Im neither religious or a greenie but *shrugs* if i cloned your pet dog you'd be pissed right? (heh, unless you were one of those people that didnt give a **** about the topic)
For the record... on the issue of cloning, go for it I say.
I kinda know what kind of things have been blown out of proportion here as i have done some work in the DNA research labs that are very closely intertwined with the cloning issue
Wamphyr
In MHO, I think human cloning is a totally fine and morally correct. I don't find anything wrong with it at all. You say there should be a boundaray or 'line'. Why? ...How so? I beleive that there cannot be any boundary or 'line' (as many like to call it) in the field of science. I was just watching TV five minutes ago and it was showing how our age can be increased so we can live up to 200 or 300 years old (this obviously will only be available to only the 'upperclass' or 'the wealthiest' of people; and this is predicted to happen in the next 10-15 years). We can already decrease 10 years of age on us...simply by applying a cream to our skin. Now, if there was a boundary, in this particular field of medicine/science...we might not have been able to achieve such an outstanding feat. Any boundaries or 'lines' stopping scientists from working for the "exiler of life" would just move to the next country if you ask me. I actually am working to become a biogenetcial engineer. So I'm right in with the news. Human cloning is, I beleive, totally moral. I mean, they've already cloned animals. And with perfectly normal signs,...no mutations (although there will be some obviously in the future), nothing that would harm the animals in any way, besides one facter of their life cutting a bit short. Nothing to worry about if scientists have no boundaries or restraints whatsoever.Quote:
Originally posted by Remote_Access_
In MHO, I think human cloning is wrong and moraly incorrect. I was wondering what your views on the subject is and why? I was reading about human cloning and stem cell research and I came to the conclusion that science has went too far this time. This is where the proverbial "line" needs to be drawn. It's one thing to do research and experiments with animals but when you start useing unborn human cells for a mad lab experiment you need to realize that this is where the line need to be drawn. As the saying goes,
"The buck stops here."
I can see as to why they would want to create a cure for all of those illnesses but tradeing one life for another hardly seems fair, especialy one that hasn't even been born. Researchers already have a set number of embryos and cells that they can experiment with in labs but it's not enough for them. They want more cells, more money, and a law to make human cloning acceptable.. Any way, what's your opinion on the subject?
Remote_Access_
Yet people say to me: What if the next Hitler or Stalin comes up because of your stupid human cloning. I stress that this cannot happen. And if it could, under the most dire of sercumstances. Just because the same genes of the person are in a certain body, does not mean he will react the same. Now imagine if Hitler, saw his father and mother being killed by some Jews as a child. This might have led him to grow up and start such a mess that he did (this didn't happen, but lets just say). Now, in order for the next Hitler, similar, if not same, activities must occur to the 'second' Hitler in order for him to screw over the world again.
Yet others say, we have to many people on our planet. It's stupid to make more. Well they are partially correct. Mass human cloning isn't going to happen any time soon so we can put that aside. Which leaves what? Just a few, controlled, people will will be born each year. Thats not going to further overpopulate the world over night. Mass human cloning will probably only happen if some mad, socially-deprived pious leader comes into power and orders an army to be created whom are totally homogenous (in-bred I beleive is the lamen's turm).
All I can infer, is that if the project remains CONTROLED, I think it is fine. I would love to do something like this as a profession actually...this stuff fascinates me. Imagine, though, for a minute...living to be 300 years old. This probably would not be benificial if EVERYBODY used this. But imagine spaceflights. This is one less detail to worry about while traveling to distant places, distant lands, distant information,...possibly; distant life.
Before some of you even read this, yes I know how to use the quote feature. It would take up too much space in this post so I just use the quotation marks. ;)
"I think human cloning is a totally fine and morally correct. "
- Erm.. I still have to disagree but thanks for repling. :)
"I don't find anything wrong with it at all. "
- I do, i find it disturbing when scientist try to play God.
"You say there should be a boundaray or 'line'. Why? ...How so?"
- Because there should be certain limitations on what can be allowed in the name of science.
"I beleive that there cannot be any boundary or 'line' (as many like to call it) in the field of science."
- I agree that there cannot be a boundary or 'line' either but I still think that there SHOULD be.
Despite what I and many other individuals think, we cannot stop the research and practice of studying stem cells and human cloning. It's just a matter of time and a very short time at that.
"I was just watching TV five minutes ago and it was showing how our age can be increased so we can live up to 200 or 300 years old (this obviously will only be available to only the 'upperclass' or 'the wealthiest' of people; and this is predicted to happen in the next 10-15 years). "
- I see your point. Even if a cure is developed for all of these diseases described on the news and all over the internet, it's not going to be for the vast majority of people. It will mainly be for the 'uperclass'.
"We can already decrease 10 years of age on us...simply by applying a cream to our skin. "
- See, science in progress. I don't want to extend my time here artificaly. When it's time to go, it's time to go and I'm not going to argue about it.
"Now, if there was a boundary, in this particular field of medicine/science...we might not have been able to achieve such an outstanding feat. Any boundaries or 'lines' stopping scientists from working for the "exiler of life" would just move to the next country if you ask me."
- Now the cream isn't that bad but useing what could be future human life is just unreasonable if you ask me.
I actually am working to become a biogenetcial engineer. So I'm right in with the news.
- Grats and good luck with your studies. :)
Human cloning is, I beleive, totally moral. I mean, they've already cloned animals.
- I still have to disagree. There's a big difference between animals and humans.
"And with perfectly normal signs,...no mutations (although there will be some obviously in the future), nothing that would harm the animals in any way, besides one facter of their life cutting a bit short. Nothing to worry about if scientists have no boundaries or restraints whatsoever. "
- I read some where that doll the sheep has some sort of disease, not sure what it is but points to who ever finds out.
Yet people say to me: What if the next Hitler or Stalin comes up because of your stupid human cloning.
- Just immagine the terror... WW III
"I stress that this cannot happen. And if it could, under the most dire of sercumstances. Just because the same genes of the person are in a certain body, does not mean he will react the same"
- I don't even want to think about another Hitler or Stalin. I disagree though. It could happen but that dosen't mean it will..
"...Mass human cloning isn't going to happen any time soon so we can put that aside. "
- Hopefuly mass human cloning isn't going to happen at all. ;)
"...Imagine, though, for a minute...living to be 300 years old."
- Once again, when it's time for me to go, it's time for me to go. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
"This probably would not be benificial if EVERYBODY used this. But imagine spaceflights. This is one less detail to worry about while traveling to distant places, distant lands, distant information,...possibly; distant life."
- Hrmm... I love Earth. I don't want to go to a different planet but if anyone dose leave the 'Home Planet' send me a post card. :D
BTW, A human life is far more significant than an animal life.
Thanks for all of your replies,
Remote_Access_
Would you mind, then, if i put your kitty in a clamp and kept on tightening the screw?...Quote:
Originally posted by Remote_Access_
BTW, A human life is far more significant than an animal life.
[/B]
Ouroboros
And in reply to that statement:Quote:
Originally posted by Remote_Access
It is ok to clone animals but not humans, cloning humans is the point where the proverbial line should be drawn"
andQuote:
Originally posted by wamphyr
My question is........ What makes an animal life less valuable than a human life, or a human life any more important? Im neither religious or a greenie but *shrugs* if i cloned your pet dog you'd be pissed right? (heh, unless you were one of those people that didnt give a **** about the topic)
Those are interesting questions, but not to the point IMO...Quote:
Originally posted by Ouroboros
Would you mind, then, if i put your kitty in a clamp and kept on tightening the screw?...
Playing on human feelings is not an argument for your point of view. How about I reverse the question: If you have to choose between your dog and your significant other, who would you choose? Dirty question, and not to the point ;) It's even a problem that only humans face.
AFAIK, most animals don't have morals, and I'm pretty sure your pet dog would choose for himself if asked the same question. Survival of the fittest, anyone? Maybe your dog will mourn if he sees you in a clamp, but only because he depends on you for his own survival...
I DO believe a human life is worth more than that of an animal, just like I believe a horse's life is worth more than that of a fly.
And Ouroboros: I'm pretty sure Remote WOULD mind... Why? Because he's human ;)
And that 'feeling of sympathy' is, amongst others, what distinguishes human beings from animals...
I'll keep it short and sweet - I believe cloning is ok if you do some small research or whatever in trying to find a cure. However, cloning a human is something that I just simply do not want to see...anyone ever seen Blade Runner??
Greg