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India has a lot of computer professionals. The computer industry there is worth over a billion there which is why it is so big. In a poor country, that 1 billion+ dollards means a good future for a lot of people. And it means they can become educated and have good salaries and all that other good job related stuff. And rich countries, especially the u.s give out a lot of visas to computer professionals from other poorer countries.
The MOUS (Mirosoft Office User Specialist..avden) may be insanely simple, but how many 7 year olds do you know that have the patience to sit through a 2 hour test?
I still think it is quite impressive.
jethro> yeah, he is from India...whats your point? Anyone who creats a "Hackers Certification" which you can take online, just send him the money..... lost all my respect.... I wonder how much of the stuff in his book he wrote, and how much is source code he pulled off the internet???
I am going for my microsoft cert's, and i dont think that the cert is anything special. Yea it was obtained from a 7 year old and i give him credit for it, but we dont have to go overboard with it. Just my 2 cents.
Actually we do. When you were seven did you know what a macro was? Did you know about all the toolbars? I think :) that you guys are soo old that you forgot what it was to be seven!!
More to the point... the MS certs tend to be simplistic enough that even a monkey has a reasonable chance to pass it (as is proven by all the paper MCSEs out there today). To date, I think I've met two, maybe three MCSEs that were at all reasonable... and most of the worthwhile ones held other concurrent PC-centric certifications, such as Compaq's... and most of the paper ones, well, tend to not be able to troubleshoot their ways out of a wet paper bag. Just my observations...
(and, because of the preponderance of these "paper MCSEs," I probably tend to be /much/ more critical of any applicant I interview who lists the MCSE on their resume... not unfairly mind you, but my interview will tend to be much more technical in-nature and, I'd imagine, much tougher)
Then, draziw, is your interview and standards still based in reality? "Reality" being a global scale of knowledge and proficiency in technical skills, or is it a autarchal, fabricated quiz based on what YOU know and can do?
I can understand your desire for people that can improvise, self-educate, and succeed...but being more 'critical' of those who have worked, and worked hard, in most cases, to get their MCSE (or other 'monkey' related certs) seems a bit unfair, no matter how much you say that it's not.
It seems unfortunate that one's career must start with a piece of paper (that even a 'monkey' can get, supposedly), but that's the way that it is. I am critical of anyone that seems to be placing judgement on anyone before they even have a personal discussion with them. Who knows...maybe this 7 year old will have a larger cache of technical knowledge than any of this by the time that he is 12. And maybe he won't go to college for it, but rather do it as a hobby. Then maybe he will attempt to get an IT job somewhere...and the prospective employer will say..."Do you have your MCSE cert?"...
Just a thought.
Ouroboros
that is very rare...how did this knowledge get though to him
Good point - and you're right. Furthermore, my phrasing was probably poor, at best -- thanks for calling me on it.Quote:
Originally posted here by Ouroboros
Then, draziw, is your interview and standards still based in reality? "Reality" being a global scale of knowledge and proficiency in technical skills, or is it a autarchal, fabricated quiz based on what YOU know and can do?
I can understand your desire for people that can improvise, self-educate, and succeed...but being more 'critical' of those who have worked, and worked hard, in most cases, to get their MCSE (or other 'monkey' related certs) seems a bit unfair, no matter how much you say that it's not.
Put simply, (in some weird way trying to explain my perspective) I tend to "question" the M$ certs - not unlike I would question anyone that would walk off the street without much else on their resume as far as industry knowledge goes. I tend to mostly be concerned with troubleshooting abilities. Though, for an MSCE, perhaps it's better to say that I have to be a little bit better "crafted" at questions I would pose someone versus ones I might first pose had I no knowledge of such a certificate in their background. Does that make better sense?
Good thoughts! Thanks much for the response. (feh - can't give you any greenies yet... *sigh*)Quote:
It seems unfortunate that one's career must start with a piece of paper (that even a 'monkey' can get, supposedly), but that's the way that it is. I am critical of anyone that seems to be placing judgement on anyone before they even have a personal discussion with them. Who knows...maybe this 7 year old will have a larger cache of technical knowledge than any of this by the time that he is 12. And maybe he won't go to college for it, but rather do it as a hobby. Then maybe he will attempt to get an IT job somewhere...and the prospective employer will say..."Do you have your MCSE cert?"...
Just a thought.
Ouroboros
<edit>And yes, for me to say "even a monkey could get" is, perhaps, a bit unfair. Though we have many "tech-monkeys" around these parts (that being "monkey" in a good sense... like "grease monkey" or "wire monkey")</edit>
This is true to some extent. My daughtewr is almost 10 and she could padd her MCSE by a slim margin. Kids in school toady are getting the training and are a lot smarter than we give them credit for.....
Friggin foreigners