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Agreed, gg. They could never take or hold this country, and I doubt we could never take or hold theirs. I've got enough rifles and handguns, with ammo, to oufit two squads. It probably wouldn't be necessary. Every home in this little village has at least one firearm.
I still like that old movie, Red Dawn, that brings home the point very well. It's out of date and a bit hokey now, but the inherent point is still valid.
Let us hope that we never have to find out what a war with China is like... Other than the Korean war We were able to fight them to at least a stand still though it took a couple of years and quite a few Allied deaths to do it... Mao once said that he welcomed a nuclear war with the US because it would make it easier to feed his people... With a billion plus folks in China now we could be fighting for decades and still not put a dent in their man power... I have to agree with Hornet anyone who actually invaded the US would be hard put to find victory here... I think even the most liberal minded folk in the US would quit begging for gun control and fight... :D
I remember some comment made during the Los Angeles riots of years ago. Anti gunners from the liberal left movie crowd were begging and buying guns right and left. After the riots and things calmed down, they were back on the bandwagon again. Hypocrites is, I believe, the word.
As for China, if I remember correctly, they have the potential of an Army of over 200 million. Considering their population, they could lose millions per year, and after a decade of fighting still be able to field 200 million men. Scary.
I think the only reason that Iraq failed to use chemical or biological weapons in the gulf war was because the Iraqi generals were very unsure what the response would be - so they overruled Saddam (probably not good for your long term life expectancy :) ). At the time it was reported in the British press that the PM (John Major) had given authorisation for UK forces to use tactical nuclear weapons if they were attacked with chemical or biological weapons. Don't know if this was true, but it does have a ring of truth about it.
Mr. Blair has a couple of tough days ahead of him, as his cabinet & party are split down the middle as to whether or not to support the US position on Iraq, with a narrow majority opposed to the US. Blair could be very embarrassed by a vote on Iraq in the House of Commons on Tuesday, as both opposition parties are abstaining, so the true position of the Labour party may well come into the open.
Hmm, darkes. I would swear I read or heard someplace that the Iraqis did use chemical weapons during the Gulf War. Maybe I'm getting it mixed up with their massacre of the Kurds, though. I know they used them during their adventure into Iran.
Chem detectors went off after a couple of SCUD's were blown up by Patriot's... The Pentagon released a report last year (I think) that said there was "credible evidence" that they probably used chemicals but that the Patriot missles that destroyed the SCUD's didn't allow the chemicals to be dispersed in a manor that would allow for their full leathality... I will see if I can find a link to the report...
Ah Imperialist America and its lapdog Empire buddies, oh the memories of poor Britains Empire.
Such feebleness now.
Now I assure you I will be banned for this post.
a. American patriots cant take criticism and never listen to the rest of the world not even Blair.
b. Some peopl are afriad of the truth.
If you have balls you wont neg me.
Gulf War - 250,000 Iraqi civilians die.
1 million Iraqis die due to UN Sanctions.
They are waging this war to protect oil interests. Presige.
The geniune outpouring for Sept 11 is being manipulated by Blair and Bush to whip up support. If I was American this would sicken me to the core.
He wants revenge.
For what his father failed at.
America is not fighting for us. Me or you. The free world. What is free about capitalism.
Face it the War For Oil is on and the US Imperialists will go ahead anyway.
Saddam Hussein is an evil man but the PEOPLE OF IRAQ WHO WILL SUFFER ARE NOT.
By supporting the war you are an aid to murder, mass murder.
WAR IS WRONG.
OPPOSE THIS IF YOU HAVE ANY HUMANITY.
Fare thy well AntiOnline for the fools will ban me, the blind, alas like Creon they mock Antigone, like Oedipus blind to his own fate, like Polonius blind to Hamlets true madness, and alas like peasents, blind to their hypocritical regime.
Fight the power or become a slave to it.
the number for the civilian dead in the gulf war are closer to 12,000 and that is being generous... (check the UN report on Gulf War casualities at their site) The dead after the gulf war are not due to the sanctions... Food and Medicine were allowed into the country but Saddam decided not to give them to the people but kept them for himself and his army... While I will conceed that oil is A reason for the war ir is not "THE" reason... By supporting the war I do not think that we are supporting murder, mass or other wise... We are however supporting the men and women who have to fight the war.... Those men and women who are doing what you (and yes I am singleing you out cmnoop) either will not or can not do... Those men and women ask for little yet they give so much... They are the ones who make it possible for you to post to boards like this one.... They are the ones who make it possible for you to voice your oppinon to others without fear of being killed for that oppinion (can't say the same about Iraq, China, etc can you?) I am almost done with my rant... I will leave you with this poem...
I was that which others did not want to be.
I went where others feared to go, and did what others feared to do.
I have seen the face of terror; felt the stinging cold of fear; and enjoyed the sweet taste of a moments love.
I have cried, pained, and hoped... But most of all, I have lived times others would say were best forgotten.
At least someday I will be able to say that I was proud of what I was... A soldier.
Done ranting :D
Wow - this post has really polarized opioion. Not altogether unsurprising however because of the emotive subject matter. Just so you know - any APs given in this thread (of any colour) were not given by me - neither was I expecting any, as Cosmos is (according to the FAQ) supposed to be a AP free zone.
For the benefit of those people without access to Google I include in this post a graph of total Iraq oil production, the proportion used by the US and total US consumption. The suggestion that this operation is solely to do with imperialist oil control is facile in the extreme. If the US was in the business of looking to topple an oil producer to steal it's oil (as if that were possible in the modern world) the attached graph shows that it could pick a far better target.
No-one wants to take Iraqs oil from it. In a post Saddam-Hussesin Iraq I for one certainly hope that Iraqs oil production will enable it quickly to rebuid and rejoin the community of nations. Did the coalition oust the Kuwait government and steal it's oil after desert storm? Or did we dust them down, give them a **** load of aid, and let them get back to business as usual? I think you'll find it was the latter.
CMNOOP - Yes, war, of any sort, is terrible. But your argument that we should stand idly by rather than risk drawing Iraqi civilians that do not share Saddams crimes into the conflict simply does not hold water. Many Berlinners in 1945 were not card carrying members of the National Socialist Party. What would your suggestion have been in that case? Send the Furher stern letters? Had we done so the gas chambers would still have been running today and in 1946, or early '47 at the latest Hitler would have nuked New York. Fact.
Unfortunately the cold realities of this world mean that there will be a war, regardless of if I like it or if you like it. Air defence suppression under the guise of patroling the no fly zone has already begun. But if we are not in favour of state sponsored terrorism, and I'm guessing your not, then some policy must be drafted against it. My point is that if we are embarked upon a war upon terrorism, where re-active measure are no longer sufficient, there can be no better starting point that Iraq who are a proven state sponsor of terrorism.
I would also reccomend a quick look at the historical texts on my website before labelling anyone an imperialist. Even in this text (which I would have to question if you actually read) I actually point out several times that many of the problems we face now in the region are largely of the wests making. The US armed Saddam and we (the UK) trained him, the UK created Isreal from land taken from the Ottoman Turk in WWI, the US armed Afgshistan to fight Russia. Concentration camps? British idea during the Boer war. Barbed wire? Guess who? Yes - us yet again. I have little pride in Britains 'Imperial Acheivements'. Jingoism died with Dr. Livingstone.
But the actions of the 9/11 terrorists have brought us to a point where the next steps inevitable. My comments merely accept that inevitablity and express a desire to see a peaceful and long lasting settlement in its conclusion. For only such a settelment can help ensure security both in the West and in Iraq.
Hi,
War is a tradgedy and a failure of the worst sort. There is a theory called the "Just War Theory." I'm no expert on it, but I think the basic premise is that under certain circumstances, war is justifiable. I recognize the intent behind it, but can any war really be "just"? Is it "just" that a mother and father who have raised and loved a son or daughter should have to send them off to be killed? Is sending them a Serviceman's Group Life Insurance payment of $100, 000 or whatever it is now, "just" compensation for their loss? I don't think so. Is it just that we use money and resources that could go to helping the poor for bullets and bombs? I don't think so. War is a symptom of our failure to live as God created us to live. It is a symptom of the sin that lives in our hearts. I don't think God ever intended we fight one another.
But on the other hand, is not war "necessary" at times? I really don't want one American, British, or Iraqi man, woman, or child to die over oil. But the possible use of weapons of mass destruction by Sadaam Hussein is another matter. The Bible teaches that God instituted human government to keep order and peace. Government has the authority "to wield the sword" (and take life) in order to do this. Sometimes evil has to be confronted and stopped. We must pray, search our consciences, and seek God before we take such steps, but sometimes the use of force cannot be avoided. People like Adolph Hitler and Sadaam Hussein make it necessary.