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If you want to argue philosophy, let's give John Locke a try:
Ever heard of the social contract? It says that reasonable men understand that life in the state of nature (i.e., anarchy) is unpleasant and unproductive, and that by agreeing to surrender certain freedoms and work together intelligently rather than live like animals, rational men can arrive at a mutually beneficial arrangement for a more productive life. By entering into society and reaping the benefits that it offers, you implicitly agree to abide by its rules.
By claiming that you are entitled to all the benefits of organized society while being under no obligation to live by its rules, you become a leech on society. It's just like growing up in your parents' house - you live under my roof, eat my food, and accept my protection, you live by my rules. You're perfectly free to to do as you please - just pack your bags and build your own house.
Since JP morally owns his body and the labor it produces, he has a moral right to control what happens with and to the product of his labor. If you don't accept that right, then you are perfectly free to decline the benefits of his labor. Find another site that is more to your liking. But if you choose to accept what AO has to offer, you agree to live by JP's rules.
Your pseudo-intellectual ramblings sound more like a spoiled child throwing a temper tantrum than a reponsible, rational adult. The bottom line is that you need to either learn to deal with it or find a new server, because I don't see JP changing his rules any time soon.
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my 'pseudo intellectual' rant happens to be a common belief within the left wing. This idea of voiding liberties for social gain is a large problem within our democracy. It is for the purpose of the economic system that such beliefs have been implanted in your head.
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Maybe it's time to call Kant to help us:
Kant could say to you (if he was not dead obviously) dixit his "perpetual peace project" (Zum ewigen frieden in German) that the state of nature without any restriction is the cause of the War.
The better example of this is the behaviours of countries with others when there is not any superior authority to write and enforce the Law. The supreme liberty entails you're a threat for all others. It result in wars.
That's why the Right is necessary. That's why you have to renounce to a part of your liberty in order to protect yourself from others, putting them in the same right.
After, the problem is in the qualities of the right. But not in the idea of right (understand: restrictions) which is needed to the peace.
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heh
I have an ircd... If someone came on it ranting and raving and being a general nuisance I would kick him, ban him, and whatever else I wanted just because... In that I have the power of decision. Whine about freedom of speech? Ok, go out into a public place and rant all you want. But you can't do these things in other people's private property if they don't allow you. There is an order of operations, and philosophically or not, you must abide by them. You say you were speaking philosophically, yet you state it pointedly, and not in a philisophical manner. Come in to my chatroom and start ranting... I will kick you there, and you will realize you don't have a freedom of speech unless I were to grant it to you there. So it is, and there is no way around it. There are higher powers. One above you and I and one above the government.
Raven
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Quote:
Originally posted here by celforama
my 'pseudo intellectual' rant happens to be a common belief within the left wing. This idea of voiding liberties for social gain is a large problem within our democracy. It is for the purpose of the economic system that such beliefs have been implanted in your head.
You're dead wrong about your precious left wing. The left is the faction that
is most devoted to the idea of sacrificing the rights of the individual
for the sake of some utopian ideal.
You have overlooked, or are deliberately sidestepping the fundamental
difference between rights and entitlements.
A right is an immunity. I am free from persecution or harassment for what I say.
An entitlement is a claim I have on others. If I am entitled to eat, then I am
entitled to make you provide the food.
IMO, entitlements are a right wing concept, left over from the
middle ages, where the aristocracy had claims on the lower classes,
to force them to provide for their traditional priveliges.
Now you are trying to do the same thing by insisting that someone else
must provide you with a forum to express yourself.
You become the aristocrat, and the owner of this server becomes
your serf, to maintain the equipment at his expense so that
you can get something for nothing.
:cool:
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LOL I've seen cults on the news with the same "LIVE BY MY MORALS AND RULES" days later they are all shot to death or they poison themselves. In the 60s peacefull protest would turn into a police shooting range. And even now pres. BUSH has setup "FREEDOM OF SPEECH" zones where it is "OK" to say what you want without geting beaten by riot police.... I like to call them storm trooper.... like with the nazis and starwars.
Any idiot who thinks that leaders who offer trade bits of freedom for "PEACE" is a good thing peaple like that abviosly hasn't seen The indians, africans, the jews. They were all brainwashed into thinking they would be lead into a world of peace and as for this production thing..... Yeah we sure paved the way "OVER THE INDIANS WITH THE HELP OF AFICANS" It has happend in america and it could happen agian only slower and sneakier this time.
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Re: freedom
Quote:
Originally posted here by celforama
Article 19.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
- Universal declaration of human rights
Now one may say, on a private chat server, the owner has the RIGHT to govern its usage via the enforcement of preset rules. In my opinion, such action is merely an ABILITY and not a RIGHT. No human has the RIGHT to encroach on another's birth given human rights, whether they run the country or own the chat server. Should such action occur due to the ability and power being present to do so, a violation of human rights has occured thus creating an atmosphere of AUTHORITY over FREEDOM. Should I decide that I wish to use CAPSLOCK in a chat room, that is my method of sharing information and ideas through the media of my CHOICE. If the *rule* forbids CAPSLOCK then you may very well ban me but the principals regarding FREEDOM remain. This notion of "RESPECTING" fellow chatters is garbage, how does altering the mannor in which I choose to express myself due to popular opinion equate to respecting them. It equates to conceiding to consensus and that is a very dangerous notion. Respecting my fellow chatter would involve accepting what they say as their free opinion or accepting the mannor in which they choose to express it.
the end.
I remember from School (History) in a lesson we were taught of the French Revolution and i remember a phrase:"I don't agree with you, but i will support your right to express your opinion" A great person said that (i don't remember who..)...
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This quote is generally considered as the essence of the Voltaire thinking. I heard it was reprised some years after by an important American politician. I don't known who exactly.
And in spite of my previous post here, I am obliged to agree with it.
We could raise dozens of philosophical arguments. So, we should stick to the facts, nobody like to listen somebody's shouting near him.
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WTF thats the great thing about IRC... "there is no shouting" hell alot of IRC I've seen have ignore options. Maybe someone should setup a option that blocks incomeing chat from someone so if that person types fast and slopy like I do then you can just switch the ingore option and the incomeing packets will be blocked from whoever is annoyed by the convo.
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Its my freedom of expression to ban you from the chat when you use your caps lock, insult another member, or just act like an ass. Thats just me expressing my freedom.
*******.
