a reminder for france

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Originally posted here by Negative
KorpDeath: the picture indeed is very strong. The logic of the comment is flawed as I've tried to explain. You are free to give me your argumentation of why my logic is flawed (arguments, not just calling my attacking of an ignorant post pitiful). Why don't you try to convince me that France owns the US, whatever the US wants the French to do?

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How is the comment flawed. Obviously there are Americans ho beleive we could do without the French as freinds. How should I convince you differently? You obviously understand the situation with history and yet the sentiment in a picture is toatlly lost on you....

Some Americans resent the actions and the posturing of the French.... Some Americans resent the actions, or should I say, inaction of the U.N.... What should I try to convince to of, that there are some people who believe differently than you? I'd find that a little beneath you, wouldn't you? :D

Here's a "c and p" from Micheal Moore's open letter to Mr Bush on the eve of the outbreak of war. I just thought it fit in well with all the "We saved you from......You owe us...blah, blah, blah" arguments floating around the forums.

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Finally, we love France. Yes, they have pulled some royal screw-ups.
Yes, some of them can be pretty damn annoying. But have you forgotten
we wouldn't even have this country known as America if it weren't for
the French? That it was their help in the Revolutionary War that won it
for us? That it was France who gave us our Statue of Liberty, a
Frenchman who built the Chevrolet, and a pair of French brothers who invented
the movies? And now they are doing what only a good friend can do --
tell you the truth about yourself, straight, no b.s. Quit pissing on the
French and thank them for getting it right for once. You know, you
really should have traveled more (like once) before you took over. Your
ignorance of the world has not only made you look stupid, it has painted
you into a corner you can't get out of.

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BTW, I enjoyed Micheal's speech at the Oscars. :)

Michael Moore, there's an authority I'd believe. Might as well watch Fox or CNN. The epitome of bleeding heart, whiney, hollywood. Three cheers for disgruntled directors!! Hip Hip Hooray!!! Hip Hip Hooray!!!!

I realize that was only two cheers but I'm putting as much effort into my cheer as he puts into his writing. All under the disguise of being humorous.. Well, Michael, your funny. Now shut up and sit down, fat ass. Join the ranks of Andrew Dice Clay, and CarrotTop already.

Wow..., you don't trust Michael Moore's authority on the the subject when all he offers is the truth? (speaking just of that excerpt)

You yell at Negative for rhetoric when all he gives is facts and solid arguments and you just stick your middle finger up at him.

You are acting exactly like the United States government, the world asks for reasons and you just say something attacks them, but not for having a flawed argument, not for having false information, not for any valid reason what-so-ever. It has been taken to the level of children arguing with adults.
"We can't buy you a new toy today."
"But,... WHY?"
"We have to get other things at the store that we need."
"You suck, I HATE YOU."

So far the only thing that I have observed in anti-war vs pro-war arguments is one side spouting of verifiable facts, histrical data, international law, ehics, and well formed arguments, and then another side dancing around the issue throwing the world "evil," "terrorism," "security," and just generally playing off of blind fear.

Blind faith belongs to religion and dictators, educated judgements and well formed arguments are the basis of democracy. Hitler was elected, but he worked his country into a nationalistic frenzy so that he could lead them blindly. Bush is no Hitler, but the threat of overzealous patriotism turning into nationalism should send all true patriots of the US into a panic because it threatens everything that our nation has struggled to be a model for. Americans think that our government is rock-solid and impervious to upheaval. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press only do us any good if the press is actually reporting and all citizens are allowed to speak their minds without fear of being labeled anti-American. I love everything this nations stands for and the potential this nation has to lead by examle and to take the moral high-ground while setting precedents. Currently we are setting precedents that threaten international diplomacy to the point that when we are done it may be us and England against everyone else.

Something to stop and think about before slamming the French summilarily for speaking agaisnt the war. I don't know the exact numbers, but France's largest growing minority is of Arabic heritage. Do you really think that France wants to cause an internal strife comperable to if every Mexican or if every black American decided to riot? How easy is it to fight a war against a country and your own people at the same time? They cannot do it.

God save the US! Because I'm pretty sure that He is the only one that can now; we surely aren't...

Hello,


Here is one comment that is going to be felt:

Who cares about what happend during WWII beacuse those who faught have almost died out. No their memory will not die out and neither is their accomplishment but recall your fist algebra lesson where your teacher said don't confuse bananas and oranges... (the fruits are up to the teachers' will lol)

The iraqi's situation is much different because countries beg to differ. THe reason is that each countries have the right to have a mind of their own and that if one choose A well other can choose B or C or whatever.
No one will say that sadam is a saint and a bullet through his head would have been more efficient then sending the only us and british (and 65 polish!!!!) and MUCH cheaper for everyone.
The aftermath of the war is not clear for anyone because there are too many uncertainty:
is turkey going to invade the north of iraq ?
how will the kurds react?
will the us support the kurds or the turcs
is iran going to intervene ?
can saudi arabia tolerate a democracy next door ?
when will be the next terrorist attack (is the gaz bottle one ?)
can the arab leaders resist to their public opinion if not what happens ? (deos the us care ?)
... the list goes on and on and on

But here are a couple of nice facts:
1 the war is going on
2 there will not be a us birtish blessing for "new" iraq gover by the un
3 war sucks (....)

so in my opinion get it over with. the longuer the war the more problem and the more expensive! Enough of this ****.
Bush, chirac, Blair &cie have all failed because their unwillingless to compromise has killed the un and nato. As a euroepen i don' know who i'll vote for but i do know who i will NOT vote for.
The point is they are all failure because even with the "superior technological might" of the us army well there are only 60k + troups and that is not enough to conquer/pacify a whole country. besides iraq is so rich couldn't get all get along sharing the "reconstruction" contracts ? nope .
This reminds me of my two nieces fighting over a toy... how childish. Not a single one is guilty yet they both are and shame on them.
So yes Micheal Moor is right on shame on Bush but he forgot the other part: shame on all of us!

I wouldn't take Michael Moore as an authority, he is a scam journalist who really doesn't know he's an entertainer. Kind of like Rush Limbaugh, Geraldo Rivera, Phil Donahue..... the list goes on.

I wish Andy Warhol was right, give them their 15 minutes of fame and send them home.

well actually michael moore was the youngest elected school official ever ,mainly resposible for for ending discrimination in the Elks club and others , has written several books one which has been on the nytimes bestseller list for 46 weeks ,number 1 right now is one of americas most acomplished documentary directors ,has won many awards for his films including peer awarded ones and is neither a talk show host or journalist.

And his primary motivations are for all of his "justice seeking"....
making movies or documementaries, selling books and whatever.

There are thousands that fight discrimination and injustice every day. They don't get Oscars.

and your point is ?

My point is that Mr Moore will find an issue that he feels is sensational enough to sell, he will push it with his bias, find a high enough ranking person to ridicule, sell his "media", walk away without fixing the problem or leaving a reasonable solution.

Most of us can find faults with any system without an "authority" like Mr. Moore.