can government force you to reveal the crypto key

I have family in the government related to the computer area. (They are probably seeing this right now) anyway, I know for a fact that the government is persistent and they have enough resources at their finger tips (i.e. billions of dollars) to do what they please. Has anyone seen anti-trust I could see something like that going on. However, I believe that the government is not out to get us, they just don't know how to go about pinpointing terrorism so they are trying something that will get everything. What they don't know is that if a terrorist is trying to hide something, it is possible. I am sadly reminded of 9/11 and I feel that we do need to pull together to stop this craziness but this may not be the answer. So, we need to figure out a good answer. I am not sure yet, but one I get enough time to do a nice long post with a good idea I will be back!!!

I would almost say its a safe bet that the NSA has enough computing power in their basement to break any commercial encryption, and probably quite a few non-commercial governement crypto schemes. Or better yet, think of a system like the Earth Simulator, and then imagine it put to the task of cracking. I doubt most methods of encryption could hold out long against something like that.

If the NSA want's your PGP Phara phrase, the'll get it. Ol' boy sheriffs department would have a harder time unless the LEAF key really does exist.

Syini666 - dunno if you have heard about them yet but quantum computers will put something like the Earth Simulator to shame.

I was reading an article about the 7-qubit one they have working right now and according to theory (they didn't say if they had actually tested it or not) they will be able to break triple DES in a matter of minutes with it.

Those computers work in a completely different fashion than what we have now.



***EDIT***

I'm trying to find the article where they were talking about the two working quantum computers that are out there. One is a 3-qubit that I think I remember them saying IBM had and the other was a 7-qubit that was attributed to MIT or Berkeley but I can't rightfully remember as it's been a while since I read the article.


***EDIT PRT 2***

I found a quick link on IBM about their quantum computer, it's not the same article I read a while back, but it does talk about their working 7-qubit quantum computer. They don't really talk about it's calcution capability other than to say:

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This result reinforces the growing realization that quantum computers may someday be able to solve problems that are so complex that even the most powerful supercomputers working for millions of years can't calculate the answers," said Nabil Amer, manager and strategist of IBM Research's physics of information group.

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Originally posted here by etruscan
can they???

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Depends which country, and what you mean.

If you mean "Can they legally force you to reveal your key and then legally use any data they decrypt against you in court", then the answer is yes in the UK under the RIP act 2000.

There has not been a case where they've used this power yet, however to my knowledge.

If you mean "Can they illegally force you by some illegal (under Geneva convention) duress?", then then answer is "Yes" in any country, however any evidence they did gather in this way would probably be inadmissable in court if you live in a country with a vaguely sane legal system (or even the UK).

Slarty

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They'll crack it.

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RSA 2048 bit key. If they break it, they deserve to have your information.

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Originally posted here by PM8228
RSA 2048 bit key. If they break it, they deserve to have your information.

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While I agree the concept of cracking that key to be quite impressive, Nobody deserves to snoop onto my private communications, and second, I'm sure they have systems that can break it, as I stated earlier. Think about it like this, they get the new technology, we get their old stuff when they are done with it. So if thats new to us, its old hat to them and has already become outdated to the government.

Once you pass a certain threshold (2048 bits may be over that threshold), it becomes easier to brute force the key's password than it is to break the encryption itself. If you're going to go hog wild and use 2048 bits, make sure you choose a password that's worthy of that level of encryption.

so what you are saying is that if i record anything digitally the gov. has it...

look at my previous post xyz

i don't think that computing power is all that matters...

Let's be realistic?

1. They can find out what they want, either by clever IT methods or simply extracting the information from YOU?

2. Are YOU that important that if you are not around tomorrow, anyone will really care. Well, anyone who matters to your administration that is.

3. Democracy is relative............not absolute. A lot of "democracies" break even their own laws in certain circumstances?

4. Sometime between when you stop screaming and you die you will tell them all that they want to know. Your body will not be found.

5. The S.D.E.C.E. (French Government Secret Service) blew up the Rainbow Warrior and killed a guy. This was Greenpeace's boat that was protesting against French chauvinistic nuclear weapons tests?
A couple of French secret service guys got prison sentences..........and you still eat their crappy cheese and drink their pissy wine? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :rolleyes: France is still in the EU, the S.D.E.C.E still exists? So don't give me the crap "that could never happen here"......France gave the US the Statue of Liberty (maybe the timing mechanism failed :D )

6. If you come to "THEIR" attention you are in trouble.......if you are using 4048 bit encryption in the wrong place you will come to their attention.


Just my £0.02 worth

Cheers