Speak Out Against RIAA- Only 30000 left

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Originally posted here by alittlebitnumb
As much as I hate the RIAA, one thing is clear. Copyrights are copyrights. You download **** and do not pay for it, it is your ass.

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The EFF petition doesnt encourage illeagal sharing of copyrighted materials. If you see their site they endorse getting artists paid. all we want is for the RIAA to punish "criminals" fairly and not make violations of our civil rights, liberties and securities.
From the petition:
" We respect reasonable copyright law, but we strongly oppose copyright enforcement that comes at the expense of privacy, due process and fair application of the law "

" We oppose the recording industry's decision to attack the public, bankrupt its customers and offer false amnesty to those who would impugn themselves. We call instead for a real amnesty: the development of a legal alternative that preserves file-sharing technology while ensuring that artists are fairly compensated.
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" In signing this petition, we formally request that the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), as representatives of the public interest, be included in any upcoming hearings regarding the proper scope of copyright enforcement in the digital age "

They want the artists to get paid, and copyright law to be enforced PROPERLY without violating our security, privacy, and civil rights/liberties. They respect reasonable copyright law. Located at eff.org/share here is a list of artists who make money and endorse file sharing/dont sue users. Te rolling stones said that they as rock stars allready have enough mopney and that kids sharing music on computers is no worry to them.:


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Artists and labels are already making money from the Net without suing their fans:
• Alanis Morissette
• Ani DiFranco
• Beastie Boys
• Beggars Banquet
• CD Baby
• Chuck D
• David Bowie
• Einsteurzende Neubauten
• Green Day
• Ice T
• Janis Ian
• Justablip Records
• Kristen Hersch
• Less
• Matador Records
• Michael Franti/Spearhead
• Paula Cole
• Pearl Jam
• Phish
• REM
• Sinombre
• Smashing Pumpkins
• Sonic Youth
• Streaming Geeks
• They Might Be Giants
• Ween
• Wilco

end of quoting
EFF sescessfully won a case against MGM when they tried to OUTLAW grockster, a FILE SHARING program that did not explicitly say it PROMOTED ILLEAGAL ACTIVITY. If you look on any p2p network you can find public domain files such as:
The Communists Manifesto
The Hackers Manifesto
SHAKESPEARE
Some concerts from music artists
starter bands demo discs
Public domain music and sound effects
freeware or shareware software that can be distributed
e-books
Tutorials
and many more...
p2p is not what we want to outlaw. It is a wonderfull rescource for the next generation when used properly. All this petition asks is for criminals to be sued fairly, for the riaa to not invade:
privacy
civil rights
liberties
security
and for eff to be able to help with the current situation.
Do you wan't your house to be searched and all your data found without a search warrant or any official reason? What they are doing is a violation of security.

If'n those were my songs that folks were downloading for free, I would not be receiving the $$ and it could take food out of my children's mouths and clothes off their back.

Many Moons ago, my pappy taught me to walk straight down the middle of the road and never to wavier on integrity. I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't download something I should pay for, without paying for it. In my simple perspective, the honor student didn't fulfill the tenets of honor when she downloaded the files. However, the recognition as a "Honor Student" deals with the GPA. So to what extent is she responsible? I hold the parents far more negligent than the girl. They failed her in their duty and responsibilities as parents. They didn't teach her honor. As we witness more and more the moral decay in our societies what can we expect of our children if we fail them and we are cause of the moral degradation?

cheers

How is it moral degration? The eff WANTS artists to be paid. Some options include:
pay per download
donations
Pyramid schemes (lol)

File sharing isnt just for music, its for videos, texts, documents, presentations, and INFORMATION. Information=knowledge Knowledge=power. p2p is NOT something we want to shut down. What if sony had lost the case and VHS recorders had been outlawed??? Look where we would have been, this is like the sony VHS recorder, it needs to be seen as an opportunity and if it really is bad it should be outlawed later when all the arguements have been put forward. Outlawing p2p is not the solution! you know people are STILL going to share copyrighted and non-copyrighted materials. p2p is an opportunity and it should be treated as so.

Hi,

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If'n those were my songs that folks were downloading for free, I would not be receiving the $$ and it could take food out of my children's mouths and clothes off their back.

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On slight flaw in that argument IMHO................you are assuming that these people would actually buy the genuine article from a store? I am willing to bet that they would not :( so no-one actually loses revenue.

Where the real problem lies is in counterfeiting (piracy) People actually buy those fake copies...........that DOES cost the industry money. Obviously, the main thrust is at the people who do it big time, but even the amateurs are a problem..............the guy who buys a £11 CD rips it off and sells 4 copies at £3..............that just cost you £37.5, and the government the rest in lost sales tax.

The problem with that is how in hell do you stop it/catch them?...............basically you can't.........the RIAA are effectively urinating into the wind, but they feel that they need to be seen to be doing something? no matter how ineffectual. It is possible to trace file sharers, amateur counterfeiters are virtually impossible.

Another bet I would make is that if I raided every bar, pub, nightclub and disco in this town tomorrow, I would find at least 25% of the CDs were counterfeit...............now that IS an easy target................I can see that coming along quite soon.

In case anyone wonders about my personal position, I once lost a job in the industry due to cutbacks as a result of counterfeiting (NOT file sharing) so I have actually "been there".

just a few more thoughts

EDIT: Unit321, you actually have a useful, proactive idea there...........pay per download would allow the industry to continue to make money from stuff that it is no longer economical to keep in publication?...............better copyright/patent it and sue the RIAA when they try it :D

I knoe services such as napster and itunes offer 99c a song download, and like 11 bucks per album which is very good. But the copy protection makes it hard to transfer from computer to computer. nihl you are right, pirating is where they are losing money, quite frankly i would never buy a cd for 20 bucks, like it is in so many record stores. CDs are too expensive so people downloading songs or burning copies for friends who wouldnt buy them aerent costing the record industries anything, because they aerent losing any money off it. RIAA truly is just peeing in the wind and one of the ways to stop it is to send this letter to congress. You can tell a friend also. Because or RIAA lobbyists nothing has happened yet, but 100,000 strong could decide an election, and can decide the fate of file sharing, rights, civil liberties, and security.

unit321,

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How is it moral degration?

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I was referring to our society in general and that a large number of parents aren't doing their job! When did it become ok to steal?

Sorry I didn't get back right away, had to reboot and clean some junk out. Nihil told me about Xen so I downloaded it the other day and put it to use right now to clean the junk out. Thanks Nihil, it works great!

Nihil,

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Where the real problem lies is in counterfeiting (piracy)

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This has been going on for mega years. I'll date myself here, but what the heck! In the late 60's and early 70's folks would share their vinyls with their friends, who would record them on reel to reels and then put them onto cassettes for a nominal fee. And I didn't remember that earlier, must have been a gray moment.... :eek:

Anyway, yep, it's a huge problem and has been for a long time.

cheers

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Originally posted here by Relyt
unit321,

I was referring to our society in general and that a large number of parents aren't doing their job! When did it become ok to steal?

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What were saying is that the record industries are not losing money because many of these people wouldn't but the cd's anyway. Besides if your friend has a book and he leaves it out and you read it while he's in the bathroom is that stealing? Thats p2p networks do, they enable you to "read peoples books" or copy them down to read l8r on. And many of the "books" are public domain anyways.If parents are letting their kids "steal" then wouldn't copying the simpsons from yout TV to a vhs tape be "stealing"? It's the SAME principal. Besiedes EFF supports copyrights, they just dont support the violation of our privacy, civil rights, liberties, andsecurity.

Well,

I actually do not think we are all that far apart here? Obviously I am of an "older generation", and have actually worked in, and lost a job in the industry as an indirect result of piracy. It was cassettes in my day, but I remember tape to tape

There seem to be a number of distinct issues?

1. Finance (I put that first because it is the one I learned about the hard way)
2. Law (What is, or is not legal in your part of the World, protection of intellectual property etc.)
3. Ethics/Morality
4. Constitutional rights

I think that we are pretty much agreed that from a financial viewpoint, it is counterfeiting/piracy that is hitting the industry? that is certainly what cost me my job!

The legal side is much more complex, please forgive me, as I am talking English rules here. Technically it is illegal, unless the material has been put in the public domain. This is like software that is free for private use, but institutions have to pay? I have no problems with file sharing there, as I see no difference in getting it from ABC or XYZ if it can be obtained free of charge anyway.

OK...............into a greyer area..............if someone downloads some stuff and burns a copy for me, it is reasonable that I pay him for the CD and give him the price of a beer or two for taking the trouble, and for the cost of the internet connection that I have saved? This would generally be legal over here, because the person has not "profited", and has not deprived the owners of income.

However, as soon as you take material that has not been released into the public domain, and you start making it available to others, you have most certainly broken the law.

Over here we have a Trading Standards Office whose people spend a lot of time chasing counterfeiters and bootleggers (illegal concert recordings), they go after fake watches, designer clothes, perfumes and the rest. They are supported by the local police and by Customs & Excise officers.

At the moment, this is what the recording industry is interested in, because that is where the revenue is going. File sharing is pretty much ignored because it can also have a publicity boosting effect, and be a perverse form of marketing , with a zero cost :)

Over here, many artistes make their money from concerts, so they like the increase in fans.

From a moral standpoint theft is wrong, there is no question about that, but you really have to take something with a value? I have yet to see anyone brave enough to put a dollar value on the cost of file sharing to the industry.

From the constitutional/civil liberties viewpoint, that depends on your local situation, but is what I understand this petition to be about. I am obviously not qualified to make much comment in that area.

What intrigues me is that the approach is so different between here and the USA, yet the same artistes and companies are involved?

just a few more thoughts

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Originally posted here by .:front2back:.
Could you tell me how in the end this whole fiascoe is going to affect me?

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Uhhhhh....that would be the part where the recording industry has to get rid of an outdated business model because it has faced the inevitability of an internet-based distribution system. The bonus here would be that you are able to purchase (and download) what YOU WANT TO LISTEN TO instead of the crap that some fat-cat cigar-chompin' s.o.b. who lives in an ivory tower with NO SENSE of reality TELLS YOU TO LISTEN TO.

If that doesn't ring any bells with you, then your vocabulary almost certainly consists of one word....

BAAA-AAAAA

unit321, no matter how much you talk out of your ass, that's what it is. You yourself have stated:

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Located at eff.org/share here is a list of artists who make money and endorse file sharing/dont sue users. Te rolling stones said that they as rock stars allready have enough mopney and that kids sharing music on computers is no worry to them.

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A large percentage of files being traded on p2p are illegal no matter how much you argue otherwise. Not just songs, but software, literary works, and other ****. Yes, p2p can be good but it can be used for illegal just like anything else. The only difference here is people are trying to find a happy medium in which to trade and regulate. Again, p2p is widely unregulated, and is hard to regulate because of the sheer size of some networks and numbers of files being shared.

As for people searching your shared directory for files being a fellow p2p'er or the FBI/RIAA, you have opened your shared folder to the world to download **** from you.

And that is exactly the point. Look at it this way... you may not like the police looking through your **** without a warrant, but it is like having a free givaway of illegal contraband with a giant sign saying "GRAB YOUR FREE STOLEN ITEMS HERE" that may grab the attention of a cop or two. I do not understand the mentality.

So you download and take the risks, or like you sdaid look for things that are not illegal. What's really funny is, how many care to look for Hamlet?