Since it seems to be going ignored elsewhere....

Well, I'm all for it too, and I made a similar suggestions...um....somewhere...it's kinda gotten lost in the multiple same-topic threads lately. ;)

For me, I'd use such a forum for more sensitive questions. For instance, if I'm working on a major network vunlerability I've discovered and want to share all the specifics so the other seniors know better how to help me, I'd like to discuss it in that kind of forum as opposed to spilling everything out for the whole world to see (does that make any sense?).

Especially with threads like my FSMO one currently in Addicts, there's such a huge amount of generally confusing technical detail (to me anyway) that I don't want the thread open to a bunch of newbies who'll only further confuse me (not too terribly hard to do). In Addicts, I'm guaranteed a knowledgable answer with every post.

Yes, valuable information won't disappear because interesting stuff is still asked/discussed in the other forums. I think the discussions held in the new forum will be more things that wouldn't be discussed otherwise.

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For me, I'd use such a forum for more sensitive questions. For instance, if I'm working on a major network vunlerability I've discovered and want to share all the specifics so the other seniors know better how to help me, I'd like to discuss it in that kind of forum as opposed to spilling everything out for the whole world to see (does that make any sense?).

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But there could be an option (maybe a check box that the thread creator could check) which would say prevent it from being put into the Preview forum. That way sensitive discussions could remain where they area while other discussions might be opened up.

HT:

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I will say, however, that I disagree with the initial group coming out of people with custom titles.... I don't think that's entirely right.

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I just kinda threw that out there. If you don't start with some kind of criteria and ask Ms. M and Neg to pick out of the entire AO community then you place a bit more "pressure" on them than I think they deserve. Someone will only start bitching as to why they didn't get picked or why so-and-so was picked. It is a quick way to limit Ms. M. and Neg's "options" to a few who have already displayed some sense of loyalty or whatever to AO.

I'm open to any alternatives though.....

Angelic:

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For me, I'd use such a forum for more sensitive questions.

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While the intent of the forum is not to become a "secretive little place where we hide the fethid underbelly of the internet" it would be a good place for initial discussion and assistance. If the vulnerability proves to be real and after a fix is available then the discussion could be opened so that others could see it, (though not reply). It could work quite well the other way too. Say there is a discussion of interest in M$ Security Discussions that, as they all too often do, gets derailed or taken off topic then a "Professional" could simply post to the discussion saying they are opening a thread in "Professionals" to discuss the OP's issue/point or whatever. They then go to "Professionals" start a thread that references the original and if the subject matter were appropriate then the "professionals" discussion could be visible to all members assuming this is technically feasible - If not then the "professionals" discusssion could be appended to the original when some kind of sensible conclusion were reached.

I think all this could be made to work, I think it would benefit everyone involved and what we are really looking at now is details and acceptance by JupM.

My only reservations have already been stated by others in this thread:

* How do we select the first members, and by whom?

* Is it technically possible?

* Would it encourage new members, or discourage them?

I'll find out if it's possible, but it looks like we have other issues to work out before we put this into action.
Thanks,
intmon

*Idea* -- Let's keep entry simple, but stiffen moderation. Senior level admittance. However, rules are much stricter. You flame, post, troll, post whore, you're out. End of story. That would give mods a little more free reign within that forum and make management more efficient, keeping content consistently high-quality.

Encouraging/discouraging new members would depend on how it's used. If used the way Tig and I are talking about -- for more difficult or sensitive topics -- then it would be encouraging. Newbies would have to advance to reach more advanced topics, but there would still be lots and lots on their level. However, if we stayed there all the time and discussed all of our issues in there, it would be discouraging.

My ideas for the right to be able to join this group was taken right from the suggestions that have been already given for entrance to addicts and or another special forum.
1. A minimum number of security related posts ( 300 ?)
2. A certain leval of recognition points (positive AP's -- say 750)
3. A minimum of active time on the site ( 6 months to a year ?)

After it has been established and is running, the core that have been selected via the above criteria could vote or some thing to allow for the removal or entrance of others, or it could be left to the discrecian (sorry spelling ) of the moderators if they wish to take that on.

I believe that it would be a great motivator for our newer members. It would add a level of status not present in AO at this time. Perhaps the members of this special group could even be recognized with some thing like a blue box outlining there nicknames or something. Even perhaps another special add on label to their site status. This would add a recognition easily for those new to the site to be able to tell who they could hold the most credability for.

When Mnstrgr has the time to make the top ten page she was taking about she could also list the members of the forum on that page.

Intmon:

I don't think t he initial selection is really a big deal. The reason for an initial selection is that since members of the forum would be expected to vote up or down on new members it would be kinda hard to get the forum going if you open it with no-one in it.... ;)

What I envision for the core group would be that, if they accept the invitiation, that their first job is to begin to nominate those who are perfectly viable members but who were not placed on the initial list for whatever reason - most probably forgetfulness on the part of the nominators. I don't think it should be a slight, (sp?), to those left off the list if they are viable candidates, just that the number was decided upon and the first x that came to mind were picked.

The technical questions are simply that. It's the bells and whistles like allowing direct view only access to certain threads etc. Things like that can be overcome by less fancy things like pruning a "completed" discussion into a read only forum for example. Yeah, it takes a bit more time but Neg needs something to do.... ;)

Encourage or discourage..... We already have a living example of a forum that not everyone is allowed in from the start, (Addicts). It has a healthy community, (I mean healthy in size), there are dozens of "Phew, finally made it to addicts" threads in there which indicates a desire to "get there", and it can, (though this has been disproved), take a lot of work to get back in were you to be banned after reaching it. It's there, it's been there for ages and I believe it to be a fair model of how a properly run "Professionals" forum would develop. That being the case it would appear to be more of a "carrot" than a "stick" if you know what I mean.

Mox: I have thought a lot about the "entrance qualifications" and I think it needs to be a bit more flexible. Just because someone is an AO newbie with 100 posts and 3 green dots doesn't mean that they don't have something to contribute from a knowledge POV. OTOH, the same person could be relatively clueless technically and therefore bring up numerous very good questions about various topics that the "old hands" may never think to bring up..... That would fuel discussion and keep the place from being "where Addicts go to die".... ;)

I think an invitation to join the forum should be more a reflection of who you are as a human being rather than how technically adept you are. Obviously, members should not be nominating new members who are still asking questions like, "how does the three way handshake work" in the other forums but I do think there is room for those at a middle level, that have grasped the fundamentals, who still have questions that are valid and thought provoking.

Just bouncing stuff around to see if anything sticks..........

I was only addressing Intmon's question of how to get the core group Tiger.

I certainly feel that there are some (like Irongeek for one) who would desearve to be in this group, and others like myself who really have no place in it (even if I would qualify on AP's, posts and time on the board)

I would attempt to qualify by the way, not so much to be a contributing member but to be able to follow the discussions where I could learn a lot.

It also would have the side effect of more detailed and correct answers from me in the regular forums because then I would have to live up to the qualifications the other members of the forum would expect from me.

Mox:

Interesting.... I was thinking of irongeek as an example too.... He's helpful, friendly, isn't abusive, he seems to know his stuff but would fall well short of strict "qualifications". If sufficient "members" looked at him and said yes then he would be an asset to the forum. If he became an ass then we should be allowed the "teeth" to remove him and he should be removed quickly.... I don't see that as unfair or unreasonable.....

Mox... You would absolutely have a place in this group..... Simply because you are a decent and respectable, (though sometimes a little smelly... ;)), individual. You have a level of 'real world" common sense and experience which may cut through some of the more "tunnel visioned" attempts at finding a solution to a problem that others may present. As I said earlier, an invitation to the forum should be more a reflection of you as a human being rather than what you know. Not all professional people know their entire subject, (I, for one), but I do know how to act in a professional manner as do you.

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It also would have the side effect of more detailed and correct answers from me in the regular forums because then I would have to live up to the qualifications the other members of the forum would expect from me.

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That's what I would hope to be the effect on anyone who would want to be able to participate.... In fact, with more liberal entry qualifications the most helpful, professional people _could_ get in rather quickly, (of course, they could be kicked out even more quickly if it was an SE tactic), which wouldn't present new members to AO with an insurmountable task in order to be able to be part of "The Professionals", (That's a joke on an old British TV show.... I thought it was funny..... :p )

At this point the difficult issues are the technical ones.... JupM need it to be a benefit to them without a horrendous amount of work for them either. Hopefully, if a high tech solution isn't available then there is a creative way to service JupM and those that would like this to happen that works for us all.......