can someone clarify this for me (cgi/asp..etc..)

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Originally posted here by unhappy
[B]""""Are CGI & ASP different versions of the same thing ???
Absolutely not. Microsoft invented ASP as a more performant replacement for CGI. CGI requires starting a new process, which is an expensive process, particularly under Windows NT.""""
what do you mean "performant"?

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I mean it performs better.

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how does asp NOT require to start another process... does it run in some kind of web server sandbox... ?

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It runs inside an already running process, as part of a thread used by the web server (or in some versions, optionally in a pool of threads in another process)

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are you saying that asp will replace cgi?

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No, both are now obsolete. I'm saying Microsoft hoped it would replace CGI when they developed it (1996ish). Microsoft wanted a way to tie developers down to NT, which was at the time a woefully inadequate platform for a web server.

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if they are not used for the same thing what is each good for?

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No, they are both used for exactly the same thing.

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which one is closer to being like a java applet?

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Neither of them is anything like a Java applet.

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what is open source community doing to combat ASP.NET if CGI is too old???

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Several things
- PHP runs inside the web server usually - therefore suffers none of the startup performance problems with CGI
- The various Java application servers like Tomcat - which have been around for a while before ASP.NET - and the components such as "Struts" - which ASP.NET is largely believed to have been based on.
- Mono can run ASP.NET itself (with Apache if necessary)

Slarty

what can i say slarty ... you are like that guy on CSI (CBS crime scene investigation show) who knows everything... i really really got it now

only one more thing

quote """PHP runs inside the web server usually - therefore suffers none of the startup performance problems with CGI""""

since php is one of the answers of OS community to ASP and such, and yet it's better then CGI approach. (in some ways of course) it poses an iteresting dilema... is PHP (language) able to handle and replace ASP and CGI standard....

it's kinda like a "one programming language against two "standards" "

where do you think that compiled code stands in this (regarding CGI) .... is it not irrationall to assume that in a networked environment we will try to distance the code from hardware as much as possible... therefore CGI as well becomes absolete

While you do not have to worry about the process startup that you get with cgi you do have to worry about actual script compilation and execution (unless you pre-compile things and then you still have to wait for the code to load).

Asp.net also has the capability of running straight script or using pre-compiled binaries in the form of "code behind". It works fairly well.

Php, asp, asp.net, all of these are different hammers for different carpenters and situations. Personally I prefer asp.net to all others.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king...

Obviously about PHP - people should be mindful, that while it's startup cost is low (i.e. it doesn't start a new process), it's not a particularly efficient language for general programming (AND it usually has to recompile the scripts on each hit).

Yes, Java or ASPNET are much more efficient, only compiling the page source once then keeping it in memory.

But in a lot of web apps it doesn't matter that much. Also be clear when trying to fix a poorly performing web app, exactly WHERE the slowness is coming from. Profile it, and fix the slow bits.

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Compiled CGI programs: Yes, these work fine, but there is still a startup cost associated with creating a new process each time.

Also CGI is quite a nightmare for newbie web app programmers, there are lots of easy mistakes to make. Persisting session state is probably the hardest thing, as you generally can't, given that the process exits as soon as it's finished one request.

Nevertheless, looking at web URLs, it seems quite a lot of people still use CGI, particular for things where the task in hand is complicated (Generating SSL certificates, etc)

Slarty

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Originally posted here by slarty
Obviously about PHP - people should be mindful, that while it's startup cost is low (i.e. it doesn't start a new process), it's not a particularly efficient language for general programming (AND it usually has to recompile the scripts on each hit).

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There is stuff out there such as the Zend PHP Accelerator that will compile PHP into native binary form, for use as CGI binaries.

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Yes, Java or ASPNET are much more efficient, only compiling the page source once then keeping it in memory.

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Slarty, that's an incredibly vague statement. There are cases (quite a few in fact) where the above is not true of Java or ASP.NET. JSP for instance, is NOT compiled into VM code beforehand, although similar to ASP 3.0 you can (and are encouraged) to offload most of the work onto compiled library classes.