Lucifer != Satan

In Dutch, "lucifer" still is the word for matches. It's derived from the Latin "lux" (light) and "ferre" (to bring).
Lucifer is the light-bringer, whomever that is...

And satanists don't believe in a higher being (be it God or Satan or Lucifer).
His name is only being used to symbolize the "rebellion against God's autocracy", and that's what satanists still believe: rebellion against any form of oppression/tyranny, standing up for your own beliefs not dictated by some higher power, resulting in a free spirit.

Hebrew didn't use to have vowels. The punctuations and accents Nihil is talking about only got added later.

And here is a more understandable explanation of what Irongeek posted.

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And satanists don't believe in a higher being (be it God or Satan or Lucifer).

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Oh, I'm afraid you're off the mark on that one, perhaps you're talking about a different flavor of satanists. However, I've studied satanism directly and have learned quite a bit...they very much believe in both God and satan. In fact, there are satanic rituals used that are intended to conjure up the physical incarnation of satan.

What you studied was the pseudo Anton LaVey-crap, and the stuff the church used to make "satanists" look bad. Satanism is nothing more than a "modern" form of paganism. The term "satanism" is not a satanist's invention: it's an invention of the Catholic church to discredit the old pagan beliefs (the Celts, the Norse,... - all the old "nature" religions).

It's crap alright, but it's still alive and well. They're quite active here in Little Rock presently, and these guys weren't invented by catholics, that's for sure.

It all started with the witch-hunts. To discredit pagans ("witches"), they were told to be involved in "satanic" rituals. They weren't, of course, but it was a powerfull suggestion and it did the job. Since then, everything leaning towards nature rather than a higher being, has always been associated with "satan". The people you are talking about are the ones who think it was "cool" how witches were thought and told to be involved in mystic satanic rituals (dark rituals, a lot of sex,... - that's more than enough to make some hilbillies happy).

These guys are a lot more serious than just thinking old-time witches were cool. Local law enforcement that I've been involved with has been having a field day with this...Some very interesting stories some cops are coming back with. The typical superstitious hillbilly out here (don't even get me started on that one), as well as the growing local wiccan populations are both entirely different stories.

Hit some police sources and do some more research if you get bored some time...You'll find some interesting stuff.

That's not what I'm saying... they are calling themselves satanists because they want to be identified with what the catholic church made satanism to be, not what satanism really is about.

The scene you're talking about is similar to the Norwegian Black Metal scene (linked to the Bandidos, the Hells Angel's competitors). Most original members (both Black Metal and Bandidos) are in jail (from burning down churches over homicide to rape). There are numerous court reports on those trials, and they have one thing in common: "We did it because it was cool to be linked to satan and dark forces".

Ah, gotcha. Well needless to say, they're about as psycho as a human being can get.

So neg are any of the black mass type satanists still active in europe? these where the guys who where very close to gnostics, they worshiped personal power, basicly felt that you could gain power through satan or god but each had a cost. Personaly I think Laevy was one of these, his followers where mostly dupes but he never realy beleaived most of the crap he spewed.

As for lucifer=satan, not in the bible i think, but in some of the jewish texts that told the stories of the religion (like the lilth story) satan was called the light bringer when he was cast out of the host of angles.

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linked to the Bandidos, the Hells Angel's competitors

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I see Badidos all the time. They have a clubhouse near here. They aren't all in jail... :eek: Of course 2 years ago they were cleared out for a while because they were plotting the muder of an FBI agent and someone ratted them out.

\\Edit ah you are talking about Norway?