US court bans juvenile executions

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by |3lack|ce
...Now he sits in the pen for getting caught walking across a meadow with someone else's 52 inch plasma teevee in his hands, then not paying his probation officer on time. ...

---

Dang! All by hisself? C'mon BlackIce, he hadda had help, right? BTW, what do probation officers cost nowadays?

More seriously, there is no one right solution. What works for one kid may not work for another. And, it may not work for long. I mean, a kid that can haul a 52-inch plasma TV across a meadow would have to be hard to spank.

I spanked when necessary. I preferred to deal with things immediately and directly. None of this "wait till mom gets home" business. But, it wasn't the focus of discipline and punishment. Consequences were the core. If you did something, you knew there would be a consequence, especially if it was something you knew was wrong. Sometimes, the consequence was no TV, or something. It was not always just a paddlin'.

One young man (a student/friend) I am especially proud of got squared away at Marine boot camp and served in Iraq recently. Others don't respond well to that kind of environment. Good parenting is key to child development. Parents are particularly challenged to be understanding and creative. To be effective, they need to know their children. They need to know what works, what doesn't and when the old tried and true methods aren't working any more. That usually begins around 14. ;)

Executing kids is wrong. Prosecuting someone on the verge of adulthood as an adult is one way of dealing with very bad behavior. But, if they are prosecuted as adults, they aren't kids anymore. My oldest daughter worked at a juvenile prison for a while. There are stories that support a some of what was said on this thread. She is a lot more conservative on in this area than I. I think she would like to see some kids removed from the gene pool much sooner than they are.

Naw Rapier - he's a big boy, even as far as Texans go. That idjit box was small potatos to him.

His older brother is proudly serving as a Marine in Iraq right now too.

But I believe you missed the point - that being -
Yes, punish the kids, but while you're at it, punish the parents too.

You're not going to ever 'reform' a kid who has only known a life of neglect, lies, violence, and street crime. You might reform his parents if you beat on 'em enough..

At 17 in my state, a child is legally an adult in 99 percent of respects. If he commits a crime, he is tried as an adult. If he commits capitol crime, (at least until today) he pays the ultimate price for it. He can get married, get a job, own property, pay taxes (income, sales, property, school), enter into contracts which legal and binding so long as he is either emancipated or mom and dad agree to back it (he can't be sued for non-performance, but his folks can), he can have sex as a consenting adult, with consenting adults, without fear of reprisal from anyone, and he can join the military on delayed entry. The only things he cannot do are vote and buy liquor. Why not hold him liable for his offenses?

It's absurd to hold someone liable for anothers actions. Meaning if I murder someone my mom is also guilty of murder. She may be quilty of not being a perfect child psycologist or even a "bad" mom and share some blame through a reduced sentence on the perp but murder? BTW all these cases take into aco**** the child rearing, past criminal offenses, the nature of the crime (like stabbing a girl 1000 times versus a simple strangulation) the local political climate etc. They aren't just tossed into the death squad. Plus there are just some bad kids out there and nothing a parent can do will change that. To think otherwise is a little nieve. I was a kid, influence in school and outside the home was FAR greater. I have seen parents battered to the ground by little demons who are smarter and care less about others than anyone could ever teach them. Want to blame something blame MTV ;) and the fact that life is meaningless from conception and trickles down into all aspects of what we teach children through interaction of society outside the home. Blame the schools who through litigation cannot and will not teach respect and draw a line with what is acceptable. And blame parents, but do not take the action and treat it like the child is the victim. My own pain and suffering does not give me the right nor the ability to escape punishment were I to make a desision to rape my girlfriend after prom, wether trying them as adults or not.

How can the "constitution" mean one thing for 200 years, and then suddenly
mean something else? I could understand if all the states outlawed the execution
of minors, or if the federal congress passed al law, or if they amended the constitution,
but now, nothing in the constitution can hold up as law, as long as the supreme court hates
some policy, they can "outlaw it". If other deeds have always been illegal in federal, state and
local laws, the supreme court can "legalize" them by reinterpreting the constitution.
Why do we bother to elect people to state legislatures, or to congress?
Isn't it to make our laws? We now live in a "winner take all"
political system where the only thing that matters
is who will be appointed to the
supreme court.
:cool:

The news tonight reminded me of something else signifcant to add:

Remember the Washington sniper? Oops. He was 17 when he did it. Guess what? Your supreme court just took him off death row...

Personally, I don't see what all the contraversy is about...we're all going to die, it's just a question of when and how...you can't avoid it...people act as if death is a bad thing when they don't even understand what it is...
if you take a life you voluntarily forfeit your own ( in the context of previous statements I have made )...it's as simple as that...and it doesn't matter if you're eighty or eight.

Whether capitol punishment ( death penalty ) should be used at all is a whole argument in it's self. As for the argument about parents and minors??

Minors do things all the time that horrify and discust us parents, like shitting in there pants, walking around wanking, saying things they hear us say.

The question should be, no matter your stance on capitol punishment, at what age should we kill the little mother ****ers. 5,10.15.20. When does a person become responsible for there own actions?

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by rapier57
I spanked when necessary. I preferred to deal with things immediately and directly. None of this "wait till mom gets home" business. But, it wasn't the focus of discipline and punishment. Consequences were the core. If you did something, you knew there would be a consequence, especially if it was something you knew was wrong. Sometimes, the consequence was no TV, or something. It was not always just a paddlin'.

---

I spank my son when nothing else has worked. However, he's almost 10 now, and things are changing. Spanking isn't going to really be an option for me for much longer. However, he has a TV, DVD, VCR, computer, and video games, and I swear it hurts him more if I take those away than if I spank him. ;)

However, I think one of the things that a lot of parents miss is the difference between punishing a child, and disciplining them. I can whale on him all day long as punishment...but until I sit down and talk to him about why I'm doing it, what's wrong with his behavior, why it's unnacceptable, what he needs to do to change it, and what the results of not changing his behavior is going to be, it's not discipline.

RoadClosed, I wasn't suggesting that the parents be executed. I didn't state that clearly. But in most cases, (again, I will repeat, most, not all) the parents are at least partially responsible for their childs behavior. I was saying if we can put parents in jail for their childs truancy, we should certainly be able to put parents in jail for other crimes their child commits. I guarantee you that if I was looking at jail time because my child was caught shop-lifting, or some other minor crime, I would do everything in my power to stop him from committing other crimes. I'm going to be taking time to be sure I know where he is. I'm going to be taking time to make sure he has something to do after school besides hang out in front of the TV. I'm going to make sure I know where he is, who he's with, and when he's home.

|3|ack|ce, I'm actually not all that liberal. I just fit that category better than I do most any other. Your conservatism is probably quite safe. ;)

Hi jinxy,

Quote:

---

The question should be, no matter your stance on capitol punishment, at what age should we kill the little mother ****ers. 5,10.15.20. When does a person become responsible for there own actions?

---

Again, in the context of everything I've said in other threads, if it's a deliberate action with the intent to kill I don't see where age is even in question.

People have made arguments saying that a large percentage of people on death row have the IQ of less than 80 which makes them less responsible for their actions...and there's people on death row with serious mental problems...and even those who could be considered mentally challenged... and are no more responsible than a minor in their minds.
Personally, I'm neither for nor against the death penalty...but if you're going to have one, I don't think age, IQ, mental stability, or any other excuse or reasoning, should have any bearing at all.

If you take a deliberate action with the intent to kill...you know what you're doing even if you have an IQ of 78 or you're only 9 years old...so it doesn't matter.

Most people act as if death is the worst possible thing that could happen to a person when they don't even know what it is...I can think of alot worse things than death.

If it's deliberate...juice em'...and while you're at it juice the rapists, child molesters, and half the priests in the Catholic Church.

Eg

Quote:

---

juice the rapists

---

Yes, and juice the therapists too. :D