Who said potheads were lazy?

Well, you smoked you said there..... Heh, Nicotine is the MOST addictive drug known to man. It's more addictive than Heroin and Crack combined. Think about it, how many times does a smoker smoke per day? 10 ? 20 ? 30 ? 80? Compare to crack (About 5 times a day) and Heroin (3 times a day).... Those totals for crack are from talking to people who were hooked on it.

Nicotine withdrawel symptoms can start after just 20 minutes. 20 MINUTES. Hell even Heroin gives you about 9 hours before you need another fix.

Of course there is passion. When you lookoutside and are disgusted at what you see knowing full well it was better and could be again, you tend to be annoyed. Not to mention my personal problems. I mean right now, I have a script for Vicodin ES, one of the stronger Opiate Pain Killers, it's hard to get and people just don't understand that I can take 5 of those all at once and still be in a bit of pain.

I'm not going to go into my chronic pain problems, or how I'm allergic to everything except Acetominophen (Tylenol) and Opiates, but it's hard enough getting the drugs I need to go to school (Shattered ankle bone, pulled muscle in my rib cage, half broken shoulder) and people against drugs are the ones who tell me I don't need anything for that.

Tiger:

.... Were you kidding? Somewhat confused by your post. You've never agreed with me in public before.





EDIT:


I'm watching the History channel. They are talking about how hard it was for the Mob to make money AFTER BEER WAS MADE LEGAL AGAIN....



And one more thing:



If you smoked, you were hooked on the most addictive drug on the planet. So how come you weren't on the streets begging for cash?

Because, my point is true:

IT'S LEGAL.

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Well, you smoked you said there..... Heh, Nicotine is the MOST addictive drug known to man. It's more addictive than Heroin and Crack combined. Think about it, how many times does a smoker smoke per day? 10 ? 20 ? 30 ? 80? Compare to crack (About 5 times a day) and Heroin (3 times a day).... Those totals for crack are from talking to people who were hooked on it.

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Gore... nobody uses nicotine purely. Cigarettes contain extremely small doses of it (which stimulate the central nervous system), and it's a stimulant. Heroin is a narcotic/opiate: it numbs (hence: NUMB is the opposite of STIMULATE). In other words: nicotine makes your brain work harder, heroin makes your brain stop (it mimicks your brain's endorphins, and after a while your brain gives up and stops producing its own endorphins; the result is a dependency on opiates to keep the pain away - nicotine has no such consequence, as it is a stimulant, not a number). Nicotine is not addictive at all as a substance (SMOKING is, but not nicotine): it leaves your system in a matter of days (not your lungs!) without a trace - heroin on the other hand only leaves your brain after having destroyed it...

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Nicotine withdrawel symptoms can start after just 20 minutes. 20 MINUTES. Hell even Heroin gives you about 9 hours before you need another fix.

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It's because of the smaller doses, silly. Most heroin addicts consume close to the deadly limit every time they get high (if you look at it that way, 9 hours doesn't seem that long, does it?), while most smokers consume extremely small doses.
If you would give a heroin addict 1/10th of his regular dose, don't you think he would be begging for a new dose sooner than 9 hours?

Neg, you're the only one here who's ever given me even a SMALL challenge on getting my point across, and that's not because you and me are good friends, it's because you're not a brain washed idiot.

But, a few things:

Heroin doesn't Damage your brain. It doesn't damage ANY of the body. That was straight from Dr Drew's Mouth. He's an addiction specialist. You may remember him from ... I can't think of the show anymore, but it was a show on MTV and he's done quite a few others, and he has a radio show. He doesn't tell people to use drugs, he usually tells them not to do them and to stop if they are. But he won't lie either.

For example he told people one night how Cocaine destroys your heart, and how smoking anything no matter what it is, destroys your lungs. When he was asked about Heroin he said "Well, the shocking thing about these are, they don't harm any of the body's organs by themselves, however dirty needles can spread STDs and they are very addictive".

And Neg, I'm sorry, but Opiates don't numb anything. I'm on 9 Vicodin ES right now, I'm not numbed at all. And in fact, if you read more into Opiates more on the research + philosophy level, most people have pointed out they don't numb you, or your senses, but intensify them.

This is not only from my own reading, but personal experience. And I know Vicodin isn't the strongest Opiate, and though I've never done Heroin, I've had Morphine quite a few times, and even that didn't numb a darn thing.

The reason most people think Heroin and Opiates numb you is because they change the perception of pain itself. They aren't numbing you, and ANY Opiate user will tell you, they do NOT numb the pain, they simply chainge the way it feels so that it doesn't hurt anymore. You know the pain is there, you can feel it even, it just doesn't hurt anymore.

Cocaine and drugs related to it, however, DO numb the senses. Just like at the Dentist when you're given a Cocaine derivative to numb your jaw and teeth, they numb whatever they touch.

Now, that night you and me were talking and you were drinking that nasty ass Beer, THAT DOES kill brain cells. And your liver..... And it's **** for your heart.... Alcohol is one of the only drugs that attacks ALL of the body's organs.

Neg I know you drink enough to know what it's like to have to pee every half hour. That's your bodies natural defense of it trying to defend against the alcohol.

As for leaving your body, well, this may not be what you meant but you could pass a urine test just 2 days after using Morphine. I have. That was without drinking water, or taking some weird **** to flush the system out.

The thing about Heroin addicts using a near lethal dosage...I'd argue that one, because purity is a huge issue there.

I do NOT want this to turn into some I'm "clean" and you're "dirty" bull though, I don't do Heroin, and I wouldn't. I know that because I've had the chance a lot, but I know what it may feel like and I don't want to get hooked on something like that. It's WAY more addictive than the stuff I do. Other than smoking of course.

The reaons I won't touch LSD and crack are more ethics than legality. LSD is a terrible drug and Crack is just stupid.... Lol, Neg you'll love this:

Only in America could Cocaine not be good enough for someone, they had to go invent Crack.

I've tasted Cocaine before. Not because I wanted to, it was form an ex friend of mine and it was mixed with E. I hadn't touched either before or after that time, because I don't wish to do either of those. I like Opiates, I leave it at that, and even then there are a few I don't touch.

I don't smoke pot as you should know by now, I don't like it. The only fun I had with weed was watching Cheech and Chong and the Matrix.... And listening to Acid Bath of course lol. But after trying it a few times I stopped because it wasn't for me. It didn't really help me medically like Opiates do (Concentration, pain killing, coughing) so I quit doing it after a few times.

And for other drugs, I won't touch Meth either. Opiates make me VERY hyper (I was given Morphine and the Dr almost **** his pants when I became so alert) so I don't need some shitty Meth to do that. If Coffee, RedBull, or an Opiate don't work out I go to sleep and call it a day.

I know you know most of this already about me but for the newbies who have never seen me in a drug thread before I decided to point out my areas.

One thing though:

Don't even bullshit me, you know damn well some of the things I've brought up are true, and that legalizing some of these would SERIOUSLY help out. Think about it, legalize some Opiates and weed, tax it, and watch the economy prosper.

And of course, the crime rate dropping. Just like when alcohol was made legal again. And of course alcohol was legal again so the mob needed a new source of income. They went to gambling. That was made legal, and poof, no more crime rates sky rocketing..... For like 3 hours... lol, then they realised selling drugs works too.

I'm not sure how much History of this country you know from the early days, but before 1906, there were no drug laws.

One more thing:

Drugs laws in America, are a direct result of rasicm. Opium was the first drug to be made illegal in America. The reason? A guy who hated the Chinese said "The chinks use it to rape white woman".... Boom, the first drug law.

Next up was Cocaine:

"Coked up niggers are raping white woman"

Poof, the south gets it's way after they FORCED African Americans to take Cocaine to work longer and harder without sleep, they realised some peopel react violently to it. So because they were enslaving people and forcing it down them, they made another drug with a medical value against the law.



MDMA:

You'll love this one because you're in Texas. Extacy was legal, a guy in Texas paid a guy in California to make him a batch of it because MDMA was at first use for Marriage counselling. A dose of MDMA is considered a years worth of counselling.

So people were given this at Marriage Counselling sessions in California. Then a guy in Texas paid someone to make him some. He started selling it in bars where for a while it out-sold beer. When peopel realised you could enjoy it, THEY MADE IT ILLEGAL. The D E A did something they hadn't done many times before, they called an emergency ban meaning not only was it no longer legal, but the way it worked out it couldn't be studied either to see how it actually worked.

I should have known you'd make a long-ass reply :p

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Heroin doesn't Damage your brain. It doesn't damage ANY of the body. That was straight from Dr Drew's Mouth. He's an addiction specialist. You may remember him from ... I can't think of the show anymore, but it was a show on MTV and he's done quite a few others, and he has a radio show. He doesn't tell people to use drugs, he usually tells them not to do them and to stop if they are. But he won't lie either.

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Dr. Drew from MTV... Ok...

All opiates (aka narcotics, including morphine and heroin) mimick the brain's natural endorphins (endorphins are also known as "endogenous morphine", or "self-produced morphine"). If you keep taking opiates, your brain will eventually (sooner, rather than later) stop producing its own morphines. That's what causes the excruciating pain in users who try to kick the habit: their brain can't deal with pain anymore.
The problem with opiates is with their recreational use. When taken for medical pain-relief, opiates are seldom addictive (because in that case, they're a supplement to the brain's natural morphine). With recreational use, opiates are not supplements but replacements, and that's where the whole problem lies.

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And Neg, I'm sorry, but Opiates don't numb anything. I'm on 9 Vicodin ES right now, I'm not numbed at all. And in fact, if you read more into Opiates more on the research + philosophy level, most people have pointed out they don't numb you, or your senses, but intensify them.

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Opiates are also called narcotics - that should tell you something. Used recreationally, they indeed can cause a state of euphoria - because of the numbing of one's senses.
You being on Vicodin and not being numbed is not convincing evidence that opiates are not narcotics :p

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The reason most people think Heroin and Opiates numb you is because they change the perception of pain itself. They aren't numbing you, and ANY Opiate user will tell you, they do NOT numb the pain, they simply chainge the way it feels so that it doesn't hurt anymore. You know the pain is there, you can feel it even, it just doesn't hurt anymore.

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Doh.
Isn't that what "numbing the pain" means? You say it doesn't really numb the pain, but it makes it so it doesn't hurt anymore - that's "numbing the pain". Of course the pain isn't going to go away - you just don't feel it anymore. If you're on opiates and I hit you with a hammer and you don't feel it, is that because:
a) the opiates made the hammer dissapear in thin air right before it would hit you; the hammer didn't really hit you, and that's why you didn't feel pain
b) the opiates numbed the pain

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We care a lot about the gamblers and the pushers and the geeks
We care a lot about the crack and smack and whack that hits the street
We care a lot about the welfare of all the boys and girls
We care a lot about you people cause we're out to save the world

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:D

Neg you knew me enough to know it would be long.

Now, I'm still standing behind Opiates not numbing anything. For reacreational users of Heorin (Shocking enough, Heroin is used for pain, if you get bit in half by a shark and live, Morphine may not cut it) But dude, numb would be like "I can't feel the pain" like when your jaw is numb from the dentist, you can't feel your jaw, on Opiates you CAN feel it, you KNOW it hurts, it just doesn't bother you.

If the hammer went into thin air, you're probably on acid ;)

I'm going to guess that you've never taken an Oipate before. Hard to believe someone your age has never needed them yet in life, but you'd understand if you'd taken them before. As I said, numbing would be like at the dentist where you can't feel it at all, Opiates, you feel it and just don't care.

I'll see if I can dig up a paper I had about Opiates and how they don't actually numb the pain.

One thing you haven't brought up is how Opiates are VERY good for depression. They were originally used for when you hve the shits, but after that, they were used for depression. It wasn't until years later they were used for pain.

Here is an example:

One of my problems, is a busted up knee. I have Lidocaine patches I put on my knee and it numbs my knee.

I can't feel my knee after this.

I take some Vicodin, and I can feel my knee, it's not numb, and even a light touch, I can feel. If it was numb I wouldn't be able to feel a light touch of my finger to my knee. But I can, it does NOT numb anything, it simply changes your brains perception of pain.

Anyone who's taken an Opiate for pain knows it does not numb you.

I think the point here is addictive personalities...

People can be addicted to a number of things....trying to fill that hole

Its all a case of overindulgence

Hell there are people addicted to tv, food, sex...

Over doing anything is bad for you....

I smoke pot...and I know alot of highly successfull people that do...

I do not smoke it every day....I dont drink everyday

I do not come to work stoned...or drunk for that matter...

Its the perception the pot heads are stoned all the time.....just because you drink...are you drunk all the time....

Rightly so there are people that are.....

I just hate this opinion that we are all desperate, stoned all the time drug addicts....

and the fact that I am a crimminal for doing it.

What about all the scription heads out there....you should try some of the scripts my mom uses....and she is allowed to drive, work and she is not percieved as a drug user

I compare pot to zyban prozac.....a mood altering drug...not an impairment

It makes me a nicer person...... :cool:

Grant it ...it does affect some people differently...but so does any drug\food

Grow it...sell it.......... tax it...regulate it

It is the largest cash crop....what other plant sells for 300 per ounce :rolleyes:

My .02 cdn

MLF

Nice one ! ;)

Lol the perception that a perscription makes you any less of a drug user than crack is something most people could easily find out by trying some Therozine, or Barbiturates, or hell even Valium. Those are all in use in medicine today and let me tell you I've tried them all but that first one, and they are way stronger than weed.

I've seen someone use Therozine, it's like turning someone into a vegetable instantly.

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I'm on 9 Vicodin ES right now, I'm not numbed at all.

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Ahhh... Ok... Neg was wrong... It's not a Number... It's a retardant!!!!!

I'm sorry Gore... But quoting Dr. "whoever" on _MTV_ as an authority is hardly the "hard" source I'd be looking at for my information....

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That's your bodies natural defense of it trying to defend against the alcohol.

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Wrong.... Alcohol is one of the fastest substances to pass through the stomach wall to the bloodstream... So it hits the kidneys more quickly and is filtered just the same as any other substance that is not supposed to be there... and if you are pissing every 30 minutes you're doing it wrong!!!

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I take some Vicodin, and I can feel my knee, it's not numb, and even a light touch, I can feel. If it was numb I wouldn't be able to feel a light touch of my finger to my knee. But I can, it does NOT numb anything, it simply changes your brains perception of pain.

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*COUGH* The pain region of the brain is _not_ the same region as the touch region. You can still feel the touch on your knee throught the touch region but if you press hard enough for it to begin to hurt the "medication" has dulled the effect of the pain area of the brain - so you don't feel it... Ergo, it is numbed!!!

You can use your patches and you can't feel the touch or the pain can you... Clue... This "medication" works in a different way. Rather than affecting the region of the brain that process touch or pain they deaden _all_ the nerves in the region to which they are applied synaptically. Hence you feel neither pain nor touch nor any other sensation that a nerve may transmit to the brain because they have had the synapses made "inert" - someone cut the phone line....

Your arguments are great when you use them with such passion... But passion is not sufficient to carry off the argument when the way the "medication" affects the body is not properly understood.

Tiger:

Two things:

Dr Drew was only on MTV because he was asked an an expert. His job is a radio show. Regaurdless of WHERE he works, and might I point out that is quite a statement coming from a Windows user on WHERE SOMEONE WORKS MATTERS, he still is an addiction specialist.

Second, You are not going to win this one on Opiates numbing anything. They do NOT numb.

Ahhh, finally, this wasn't what I was looking for but it has similar information:

http://www.nida.nih.gov/MOM/OP/MOMOP3.html

Look at the picture of the brain:

1. The limbic system controls emotions. Opiates change the limbic system to produce increased feelings of pleasure, relaxation and contentment. (red)

2. The brainstem controls things your body does automatically, like breathing or coughing. Opiates can act on the brainstem to stop coughing or slow breathing. (blue)

3. The spinal cord transmits pain signals from the body. By acting here, opiates block pain messages and allow people to bear even serious injuries. (yellow)

They block pain messages, they do NOT NUMB THE TISSUE. Ther eis a difference and anyone in medicine who doesn't know this REALLY shouldn't be allowed near anyone. You can call it a "small" detail, but small details are sometimes the difference between life and death.


Another thing, Opiates are used very often because they allow you to stay concious, and because they DON'T NUMB YOU, you can tell if the pain worsens, which is important especially after surgery, you need to be able to tell after a surgery if pain gets worse so you can tell the Dr. If Opiates NUMBED YOU, you wouldn't be able to tell.

Here is something:

Inject some Novicaine into your face. See how you're lips drip? And you can't move your mouth? That's numb.

Inject Morphine.... See how you can still move and feel things?

It's VERY hard to explain these little differences to people who've never done the drug.

And another thing, just because some jack ass DARE cop told you Opiates numb pain doesn't make him right.

Tiger:

Drive 20 minutes North, I'll prove this to you. It's easier to do this in person than over the net where I can't show you differences, and I'm sure as hell not copying my PDR on here.



EDIT:

Opiates Stop Pain

Did you know that some opiates can have important medical uses? They're powerful pain killers, and doctors sometimes prescribe them to control severe diarrhea. If you look on a cough medicine label, you might find that codeine is one of the ingredients.

When used properly for medical purposes, opiates don't produce an intense feeling of pleasure, and patients have very little chance of becoming addicted.

Surprising Facts

Your brain produces its own versions of opiates, called endogenous opioids. These chemicals act just like opiates, binding to opiate receptors.

Endogenous opioids are your body's way of controlling pain. If you've ever felt pleasantly relaxed after exercising a lot, that feeling was probably caused by the release of this natural chemical in your brain.

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The
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There's still a lot that scientists don't know about the effects of opiates on the brain. Maybe someday you will make the next big discovery.

Taken from same web site. Heh, the next big discovery, who do you think of the people in this thread has a higher chance of making one? The people who don't touch it or the people who Embrace it as a true gift from God ;)

Tiger I find it hard to believe you've never had an Opiate at your age. And you were in the military. The pouch you're given on the battle field contains Morphine.




Again:



Forgot to add something. Neg this is for you, you told me once you had a class where you were learning this stuff, and I wanted to ask you had you ever learned about Etorphine. You'd know if you had, it's one of the STRONGEST Opiates on Earth.

Not safe for human consumption even in MICROSCOPIC doses.

http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/Opiates/etorphin.html

That only talks slightly about it and it isn't even very good, I'd say check Google for it. There was a white paper on it I read a few years ago. You may find it of interest. < / Truce >

Back to your regularly schedualed fight for freedom.

What the **** does a humorus story about weed packaging have to do with the fact that you are a ****ing junkie and you feel the need to defend it. I sick and damned tired of every time someone says something even remotely related to drugs you feel the need to pop off about how great everything is in your drug filled world. The **** ****ing KILLS people. A few people may have the physical constitution to deal with it but look at the real ****ing world not some god damned textbook.