Why is it so hard to get some prescription drugs in the needed quantities?

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Originally posted here by Evil Moo
I'm only an EMT, so my classroom knowledge of internal medicine is minimal by medical standards. Ask me in a few months when I start my indepth pharmysutical courses for nursing, then I'll have more specific answers.

I have no access to your medical information, but from the sounds of your post, you've been a wreck in several ways for quite some time. Everyone on this site also knows that you've been a long time and vocal proponent of any sort of drug(for the most part).

So, you have been a wreck for years, or you advocated ultra-liberal drug access before you needed them. In either case, making drug access easily accessible to suit your very small and unusual circumstance would prove unwise and detrimental to society as a whole.

If you've been a wreck for years, I recommend changing your primary care physician--or getting one if you don't. I notice that mostly the only people whom have chronic illness and/or problematic access to their medications are people without one. If you have a regular doctor and he/she determines you need x-y-z, you'll definately get them for as long as required. If you don't, it's probably because you either don't need them, or don't have a primary care physician.

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Well you guessed pretty good. One of the reasons I'm against laws IS because I've seen the bad sides to them. And had to suffer because of them.

And yesm, I have been pretty banged up for.... I can't even count how long... One of the reasons is MY fault, I can admit that. I used to do BMX bike stuff and basically, injury comes with that. (Ever have handle bars of a bike break a bone in your torso because you landed on them? heh.)

I have a PCP now, and he was giving me what was needed, however, it had beena year and I still can't afford the surgery I need. I was told I would have to pay like 20% of it, but that's quite a bit of cash though this last week, I've decided it's probably best I get it done soon.

I'll be out for a while after that but at least I won't be sore every day to the point I can't even hardly take a shower because it hurts to stand up or stand still. They'll be cutting open both of my Ankles, and scraping the bones where shattered bone fragments are currently making it hard to walk.

MY Dr's problem was the DEA. After a certain point he was forced to stop. It didn't help that someone who was abusing the system crashed his car into the building driving all stoned on drugs he had gotten basically using my Dr as a dealer. When that happened my Dr couldn't script ANYTHING Narcotic for like 3 months.

Again, I was the one suffering because that Jerk off was abusing the system. I don't stand up for people who do that.

My outlook on drug laws is:

They are un-constitutional.

Which they are. I think one problem is because I've been tortured and damn near killed a few times by Drs who wouldn't write out a script for something Narcotic, but were happy to give me Motrin which put me in the ER.

Have you ever had your system pumped because OTC Motrin almost killed you with two tabs? Not fun and the stuff you swallow tastes HORRID.

Nihil:

Although your govt there isn't perfect, I can say, at least they have decided to allow DiaMorphine.... Which, as you most likely know, is Heroin. People think Heroin is a C1 drug.... In the USA legally it is, however, if you get bit in half by a shark, and live, Morphine may not be strong enough for the pain. I was actually waiting for you to reply though. In your area of the World small doses of Morphine are OTC.

Actually in all parts of the World but here in the US, small doses are OTC.

Canada has 222s and Tylenol with Codeine OTC

Mexico has Valium, Codeine, and some parts have Hydrocodone (Vicodin) OTC

Peru has Morphine OTC

France has OTC Codeine

Germany has Tylenol #3 OTC and even more.

Amsterdam..... Heh... I think everyone knows what they have ;)

America.... We have Acetaminophen (Tylenol) and Ibuprofen (Motrin) OTC.... That's it.... Oh, and Aspirin... I'm Allgeric to two of those. I don't think some people here from other countrys really realise WHY I attack drug laws. I know a lot of people here aren't in the US, and it makes me wonder if they think I'm some addict who can't get anythin better, which I'm not, ti's just that in the country they are in, they can get at least 222s OTC, in the USA you need a perscription for those.

I can buy Booze OTC but not Codeine... Maybe that's why our Crime rate is so bad? I live near Detroit, almost every day the news has a special section just for who got Murdered over the night.

gore You are quite right that we have diamorphine, we also have cocaine. Our method is to give drugs a "pharmaceutical name" which can be legitimately manufactured by approved companies (they frequently use a brand name, but the chemical content is the same).

I think that you guys have two basic problems.

1. You try to control substances , rather than their use, distribution and manufacture?
2. You have the wrong people making the rules.

Over here we have one outfit that looks into the medical value, safety, dosages etc. Basically the technical side.

Another body controls pricing, manufacturers, distribution, OTC/POM and whether our NHS (state medical sevice) will pay for the drugs............etc. In other words the sort of administrative side.

Neither have anything to do with law enforcement. ;)

Other considerations:

1. Most people have an NHS doctor and would keep that doctor until they moved house. Records transfer between doctors when they move.

2. Chronically ill patients can get a "season ticket" which reduces their costs and the temptation for over prescription. You cannot shop around, you MUST contact your own doctor in the first instance.

3. Doctors are paid by the NHS, they do not get any money for a prescription unless it is a private one for something like Viagra or a drug that is not on the NHS approved list. This is a pretty small amount for the doctor so there is little financial incentive to overprescribe there either.

:)

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Want proof? Wake up tommorrow and don't smoke or have ANYCaffeine.

For the smokers and Coffee lovers here, have a good one, you'll have a head ache and be puking within about 6 hours. Why? Because you're addicted to Caffeine.

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Done the above mentioned plenty of times, well i quit smoking a few months back, and the not having coffee first thing in the morning doesn't affect me, i sometimes go the whole day without a coffee, and it doesn't affect me.
Witch is weird as i drink on average 50+ a day..

Even when i gave up smoking i stopped drinking coffee also, and i never got any strange symptons etc..

anyhow interesting discussion at the least..

Nihil, that way appears to work about 10 times better. The law should stay out of Medicine, it doesn't belong there.

F2B:

Some people have noted no real problems with addiction. My cousin had back surgery and went from Morphine to Vicodin to nothing in one day. He also smokes but if he runs out, doesn't care. He seems almost immune to addiction.

Coffee drinking isn't so bad when you drink the stuff I do. Caffeine is in quite a few things. Chocolate, Pop (Soft drinks), Tea, Energy Drinks.... It's in a lot.

I stopped drinking Mountain Dew once for 3 days. It was my first memory of withdrawels. On the third day of my head ache and nausea **** tail, I realised just THINKING about opening a Mountain Dew made me feel better. Of course it was only slightly better, actually drinking it stopped them outright though.

Hey gore ,

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Nihil, that way appears to work about 10 times better. The law should stay out of Medicine, it doesn't belong there.

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We have our downsides as well...................we banned cannabis as a "recreational drug" a long time ago, yet it was available from pharmacists prior to that? Fortunately (IMHO), we have now started research into its true pharmacological properties, and I guess we will use the traditional "British cheat" and give it a pharmaceutical name, so it can be legalised without any "loss of face" (bloody politicians!!!)

The weird thing is that I have several cacti that are totally illegal in the USA (big show on Sunday 9th. If they will accept a late entry ;) ) I can grow opium poppies in my garden........... like I said, we don't look at substances, only their supply and usage. I Import "naughty cacti" from Holland, and I prefer to go to the "drug dealers" because I know that I will get prime specimens for a little extra to cover their effort to select them for me ;) .............. and my fellow collectors and exhibitors have not worked that out yet!

If you lived over here mate, things would be very different...........you would register with a doctor (all free including consultations/visits) you would be diagnosed, a prescription would be issued............. you would get a "season ticket" and that would be that. You would just have to phone the surgery for your repeat prescription, if their software did not issue it automatically.

However, you are young, so you would have been taken into hospital to get you sorted out (free of charge of course!), so that you could earn and pay taxes for many years to come (to repay your debt). They are cunning buggers, believe me!

We also seem to take into account the purpose of the medication.............like I can get morphine containing products to cure the screaming $h1ts, but if I abused that product I would be so constipated it would not be funny.

When I worked in the pharmaceutical industry, I discovered that we put stuff in potentially abusable/addicive products that would make you vomit if you tried to abuse it.

I think that it is a classic case of legislation being drafted by people who have no practical idea? Just like IT security?

As an aside, I can remember going to the big pharmacy shop and buying bottles of 300 tabs of codeine BP (British Pharmacopaea.............like the list of approved drugs in their generic terms) and I would only have been about 12 or 13 years old.

"The times they are a' changin"

EDIT: Late entry accepted...................just wait till they see my latest "Peruvian Torch" cactus.............she has to get a bronze?




:p

Nihil:

You're right, your Garden would have you behind bars. A few years ago a 60 year old woman was given seeds from a friend so she grew them. She loved the flowers and in her third season of growing the DEA busted her door down, ripped her garden apart and she was arrested.

The pretty flowers were "Papaver Somniferum" (Opium Poppy) and she actually was hand cuffed. Charges and all....

The funny thing is, a few miles away some younger people were being busted for the same flowers. they asked where he got the seeds and he said next to the Paprika at the food store. He bought the seeds right fof the shelf and sprinkled them on the dirt.

They grew.

That's why this year my Garden didn't have as many things in it. I didn't dare take pictures. I got compliments all the time on how pretty my flowers were and had to tell people "Well, I bought a variety of seeds" when they asked because I knew if I said "Poppys" I'd be in jail probably the next day.

And as you pointed out, if you add three ingrediants to Codeine, it can be OTC in most countrys. Except of course the land of the free. Lol. What a load that is. Land of the free my ass, an elderly woman got arrested for growing flowers and not even trying to use the "sap" inside.

also in America, you can't get OxyCodone without Acetaminophen. You can in Canada but in the US they add a bunch of it so if you tried taking a bunch to get high ti would destroy your liver.

And as with most anti drug ideas, it's dumb, doesn't work, and only hurts people who actually need it because anyone who does it for recreation knows Cold water extraction takes most of it out without a problem.

It's almost sad that the most harmful substance in Vicodin is the OTC Tylenol it has. Opiates themselves do no harm to any of the body's organs. But since it feels good they make laws against it.

And your late entry should make people see bronze lol. ;)

Drug monitoring is absolutely ridicules!

i have arthritis of the spine and three discs that look like the hammered end of a chisel.

i go to the doctor, a sports surgeon. he prescribes ultram, 1-2 every six hours. i go back and ask him if he has something stronger, this helps but it's not quite making it. he asks how many im taking. i tell him 6, 2 every 6 hours. he says, "their are 24 hours in a day...you can take eight. eight worked taking 3-2-3

now that sounds all fine and dandy but the prescription is filled for 100 and cannot be refilled until 27 days have passed. taking 8 a day means im out of my drug after 12.5 days...and cannot get it refilled even with another prescription. even taking 6 a day means im out after 17 days.

who in hell makes up these laws! Whatever daemon it is must like to see people in pain.

My story is the opposite. I was addicted to stuff 20 + years ago.

I had my hip replaced and was worried about getting hooked on pain meds during recovery.

After surgery I woke up and felt no pain, the spinal was still working. The nurses were insisting I take Oxycotin. I passed on the drug and I explained my reservations. Every 3 hours they were pushing the stuff.

I needed something after 6 hours and took the Oxycotin, slept, woke up fine and for the next 4 days I had to fight them off trying to get me to take the pills.

Ironically the 5 years prior to the surgery they wouldn't give anything for the pain of the degenerated hip.

If you need the meds and want them, they toast you. Tell them you don't want something and "no, no you have to take it."

Ted~ old chap, my sincerest sympathies, and I mean it.............the worst I had was a bout of sciatica for a few days...............most people don't understand back pain until they get it! :eek:

27 days?....................hmmmmm................that sounds like "once a month" to me?

I have just done a little bit of research and discovered that the "standard unit" is 100 tablets.......?

However, if you look down the bottom right hand corner of the (US) data sheet, you will see that it comes in 500 tab bottles as well? maybe that would be a solution, and get a scrip once every two months?

I do not know US pharmaceutical laws, but I know that this packaging is generally used for "housekeeping" purposes. Over here, once the unit is opened it can only be used by the patient it was issued to, and the rest have to be destroyed. As this is mainly aimed at acute pain situations (like in sports injuries), the standard dosage pack will be quite small. You obviously have a chronic situation which explains why the standard pack is inadequate?


Anyway, here goes:

http://www.ortho-mcneil.com/active/j...IQNSC#zoom=100

And having skimmed through the data sheet, it wouldn't be a drug I would want to use, let alone abuse :eek:

Good Luck mate!