Germany restaurant killings

Fair enough, but the point about them not shooting at stationary targets with both feet firmly planted is perhaps not quite so valid considering all the people were tied up at the time. From what I read, apparently the police got the little girl to re-enact the events with dolls and what she saw was the killers shooting the people at point blank range to the head, so I doubt they emptied their magazines :P

But anyhow, since I've never held a gun nevermind fired one I can't really comment much.

ac

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Originally Posted by brokencrow

Thorazine? Tried it once in the 70's. That stuff's no joke...turns you
into a vegetable for a while. The movies do NOT do it justice. It's
absolutely horrid. I don't think they even use it anymore, do they?

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As far as I know, they use it in psyche wards only, and only when it's the Dr's way of syaing "Damn it put that Dr down and quit smashing him head first into the wall!" and as you have correctly pointed out, from what I've read, you're concious but can't move anything in a vegetable like state.

Anyway not to drag this off topic, I'm against murder so regaurdless of where it happened this is horrible. Shell gathering I always thought was a non amateur move... Possibly because I'm in Michigan where they seem to enjoy that specific move, but being someone who isn't a contract killer or gang banger I really can't say for sure.

Michigan seems to have fairly "whatever" outlooks on weapons. My best friend has an AK-47 and an M-14 that we used in his back field to do target practice after digging a trench to put the targets (An AK is a bit to powerful to assume it won't hit anything after it goes through the target as it can penetrate armor so we shot under ground) and not once were cops called on us.

Those guns were all legal though. But we both knew of people who could get guns off the black market with everything filed off.

After reading the Wiki a little more, I'm really not thinking these guys would bother picking up shells as they seem to have a good amount of cash.

Anyway, hi everyone :)

Hi there gore,

AK-47? that is a 7.62mm x 33mm round.............your M-14 is 7.62 x 52mm one hell of a lot more powerful..........you guys call it .308 Winchester.

If you are worried about overpenetration/travel the .308 is the one to watch. The AK-47 is little better than a machine carbine round.

Anyways, penetration is much more projectile dependent than projector.

Trust me, I am an accountant (and a bit worried about my Enron pension) :D:p

Yea I'd agree, though I think being responsible with any gun and the firing is important.

Hi all, next time you go to the range, put several targets maybe 3-4 feet apart (i use 4-8 targets, paper dessert plates stapled to upright pallets) and stand in one place and fire at all of them with one mag. If you fire at just one paper plate from one position, your brass (anyway my brass) whether .380, 9mm, .45, will be within a couple feet of each other, as long as you stand in one place and shoot at one plate. However, if you move yourself a couple feet, move the pistol from one position to another (up, down, sdeways) and shoot at several different paper plates, your brass will be scattered all over, maybe ten or fifteen feet radius. That's in gravel where it doesn't roll much. Do it with slick floors and the brass will be scattered so far you'll be hunting for it until you start thinking of what time was lunch supposed to be.
Anyway, Nihil's .38 wheel gun saves a lot of time hunting for brass.

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I am an accountant

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That explains a lot.

re round size being more important than weapon, round size = velocity and damage/penetration potential, barrel length = accuracy. (as well as of course quality of weapon/ammo).

I once played a game where they were lazy and most bullets were 9mm, yet if you put them in a desert eagle it did 3x the damage. Drove me slightly nuts.

As for collecting spent ammo, even IF they get a decent enough recovery to get a match (bullet fragments are no good of course) they still have to have your gun to compare it to, which means that they have to have probable cause to seize your gun in the first place. Bottom line: without OTHER evidence pointing to you, bullet evidence is useless.

Heck, same is true of most forensics. A single fingerprint just proves you were there. If that print is on a wall or door say, it proves NOTHING. You could have been there hours or days before the crime.

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Originally Posted by Aardpsymon

Heck, same is true of most forensics. A single fingerprint just proves you were there. If that print is on a wall or door say, it proves NOTHING. You could have been there hours or days before the crime.

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Well that depends. If your finger print was found in a bank vault and you don't work in it, I doubt many people would be like "Well it couldn't be him that just proves he was IN there".. heh. And if that does work on getting you off charges let me know.

true, but think inside man. All you have to do is shuffle the customers around as hostages and say you were a customer not a robber :P

Hmm, where do you live again? *Giggle* Ich brauche geld ;)