On demand of Ennis

For a neutral opinion:
the defenitions of cracking vs. hacking were included by Gary Scott Malkin and Tracy LaQuey Parker in rfc1392, a kind of glossary of Internet-related networking terms officially sanctioned by the IEEE and published in 1993.

So here they are

Cracker
A cracker is an individual who attempts to access computer systems without authorization. These individuals are often malicious, as opposed to hackers, and have many means at their disposal for breaking into a system. See also: hacker, Computer Emergency Response Team, Trojan Horse, virus, worm.

Hacker
A person who delights in having an intimate understanding of the internal workings of a system, computers and computer networks in particular. The term is often misused in a pejorative context, where "cracker" would be the correct term. See also: cracker.

in the old days a "cracker" was a coder who dealt with copyright protection overrides and serial number cracking. A "hacker" was someone who pentrated secure systems ..more of a network admin type(Black Hat or White Hat)The two definitions have merged and become ambiguious over time. in response to the Preacher's grouping of everyone who penitrates a system as doing something "illegal" I have this response. This is a society based(America's) on a FREE exchange of information. Therefor those who regulate such info should be charged with illegal activity

there is indeed the idea of freedom and a lot of rights do express this. e.g. the freedom of press, the right to have a different opinion,...
but other kind of rights also exist: the kind of rights that protect property, privacy,...

It's worth to make a trade off between those two things.

I think the USA is a pretty good example of an *unfree* country. In the US you couldn't get a beer at 16 in a bar, or you couldn't take a interstate train without any kind of identity control,or you couldn't say what you want... do I have to go on! that all just cause of the second kind of rights that I mentioned.

Maybe you fellows have taken it to far??? correct me if I'am wrong

From what I have gathered from this thread most people would agree that cracker=bad and hacker=good. So if I may I would like to shift the question to why would one want to be a "hacker?" The best analogy I can think of is this;
Imagine you are a master car thief (not the ones with crowbars and guns but someone who can do it with tools, skills, and finesse), it would not be fun to break into your own cars, you would want to see if you could do it to other cars, and not for stealing them but for the thrill of it and the self-confidance it brings knowing that you possess a skill that most do not. If the only thing a "hacker" could do was develop their skills on approved systems (which are few and far between), what is the point of being a "hacker" and not a "cracker"?


And since I am a *newby* i got one more question, how does a person become a "hacker" without crossing the line into "cracking"? I mean I can't beleive that many "hackers" became good testing themselves on their home networks. And if my above statement is correct wouldn't most anyone who calls themself a "hacker" also be a cracker, or a criminal?

**disclaimer** If I have stepped into something that is beyond me i apologize ahead of time. But like most of you have done in the past, I am asking because I want to know.

I'm bored with these long posts. **** YOU and especially you VictorKaum i will **** you

Ohhhh, I'am impressed

Sebastos: Did you actually took a look at some of the URL's I had posted?

probably not!

You should, it's interesting...
there are links with good stuff and tools but if you don't like long posts so be it.

Do you react the same if I would post I nice long tutorial how to crack some1s pc?
:D

Quote:

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Originally posted by larryjs
in response to the Preacher's grouping of everyone who penitrates a system as doing something "illegal" I have this response. This is a society based(America's) on a FREE exchange of information. Therefor those who regulate such info should be charged with illegal activity

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First of all I never said anyone who penetrates a system is a cracker. Its only when you illegally penetrate the system that you earn this title. Second this is not a society where info should be available to everyone. We are people who judge on outward appearances and rumors. Imagine if all of your personal info was available to anyone. Your neighbors could find out by checking a doctors log that you suffered mental illness as a child, so now noone trusts you. Now imagine yourself as a business and you are coming out with an invention that will rock the world. Right before you release it another company accesses your files, steals your ideas, and makes the money that should have been yours. In this world where all info is available to everyone, this would be possible. Also if info is free for us to use, why not the government. They could use this to spy on all of us all the time. You say that regulating info should be illegal, but what if someone could easily get your credit card number? You would cry a different story after recieving a super high bill. Dont think im flaming you because I agree that to a point a lot of info should be free abd open to everyone, but a lot should not also.

I agree with ThePreacher

Is was explaining the same to larryjs:
You have to made a trade-off between the two extremes.

Or how should you feel when you couldn't get an insurance cause the insurance company had checked your medical files?

Sebastos12, I want to thank you for having the guts to give me negative antipoints and leaving your name. This is the first time anyone has done this. In response to your message:

Quote:

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**** YOU

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No thank you I am heterosexual. In response I am not going to give you negative antipoints as revenge with hopes that no hatred is between us. I do not remember flaming you, so if you wouldnt mind sending me a detailed explanation of why I recieved these antipoints, I would be much happier.

Hey Preacher:
Sebastos was complaining to me about long posts, maybe that's a reason?
I thougt I was giving usefull info with those URL's?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sebastos12
I'm bored with these long posts. **** YOU and especially you VictorKaum i will **** you [/QUOTE

No, you will not, I choose the people to **** with myself.

hot girlz don't **** -> they make love

VictorKaum please edit your post and add more comments rather than posting again if you feel you need to add more, its just I hate scrolling.

Havent been here in 2 days and I see sebastos has spent his time posting crap even hehbris would cringe at.

Seriously how did this thread degrade so fast, ah well Rioter if youre reading this I now understand what you said to me a long time ago....

First off all: sory for the bunch of posts before... I should have edited the first 1.

Yes, this thread has degraded pretty fast. I find it very most deplorable

Quote:

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Originally posted by VictorKaum
hot girlz don't **** -> they make love

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Hot girls don't make love, beautiful inteligent loving girls make love. I doubt you know what love is.

Its all flame, flame, flame thse days....maybe Ill post some tuts now....

Quote:

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Originally posted by redthefed


Hot girls don't make love, beautiful inteligent loving girls make love. I doubt you know what love is.

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Why could a hot girl not also be a beautiful inteligent loving girl?

With "a hot girl" I point to the kind of girls that are hot from the point of view of a girl so they are intelligent, beautiful, loving, friendly, nice dressed,...

Why do you say I don't know what love is?

This post was originaly going about hackers and crackers, it was started from ethical inspirations.

From the way the post looked, it didn't seem you had any idea what you are talking about. You phrased is as 'hot girlz', which is slightly offensive to some. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a womens rights activist, but everyone needs to be treated with respect. Man, there was a time not too long ago when Antionline was almost flame free... I guess it comes and goes.

Let's start a new thread on this women topic, this thread is for hacker / cracker differences.

Yep lets steer this back to what it was, so lets put the flames aside and talk ethics...

Quote:

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Originally posted by ThePreacher


First of all I never said anyone who penetrates a system is a cracker. Its only when you illegally penetrate the system that you earn this title. Second this is not a society where info should be available to everyone. We are people who judge on outward appearances and rumors. Imagine if all of your personal info was available to anyone. Your neighbors could find out by checking a doctors log that you suffered mental illness as a child, so now noone trusts you. Now imagine yourself as a business and you are coming out with an invention that will rock the world. Right before you release it another company accesses your files, steals your ideas, and makes the money that should have been yours. In this world where all info is available to everyone, this would be possible. Also if info is free for us to use, why not the government. They could use this to spy on all of us all the time. You say that regulating info should be illegal, but what if someone could easily get your credit card number? You would cry a different story after recieving a super high bill. Dont think im flaming you because I agree that to a point a lot of info should be free abd open to everyone, but a lot should not also.

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I hear you on that one.And I will not disagree with your point. Its only that privacy laws are twisted in such a way that it leads to over regulation in its name. Thats why we want to get bin-laden and that whole bunch in "military tribunals" We KNOW our rights and justice system sometimes delay justice and its the price we pay for them.

The delay is good.

Quick justice is bad justice

Things always need some time to get a satisfactory result. The time may not be to long but also not to short.

Quote:

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Originally posted by larryjs
I hear you on that one.And I will not disagree with your point. Its only that privacy laws are twisted in such a way that it leads to over regulation in its name. Thats why we want to get bin-laden and that whole bunch in "military tribunals" We KNOW our rights and justice system sometimes delay justice and its the price we pay for them.

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The way that privacy laws are becoming I fear for myself and everyone in the u.s. I have hopes that a lot of information can be available to everyone, but there are always those who will abuse this power. With the problems my country is going through we might face even less privacy, but how can the u.s. govern a world wide network? For instance it might be illegal to create new encrytion keys here in the u.s. but what about some smaller countries that dont have time or resources to comply. Would the government prevent this country from accessing any info from these places? When does the government go overboard and deny us access to whatever they dont want us to see? At this point I might give up my glowing white hat and step into the dark side so that I can learn the truth. Most of us are not children, so we can make our own decisions on what info we will access from the internet. Im rambling on now so please forgive me if you dont like long posts.

i have been ready this post and i just see that everybody just says that hacking is ilegal i now is ilegal but most of you have the nowledge to do it and i'm sure you haved hacked sometime on your life am a newbie (i don't think i get to that yet either) but i want to ask a question is it ilegal then why do the ****ing damn goverments, organizations and all that like to it they don't care because they thinkj they have the power to control us, the more restriccions they put the less freedom the pèople will have, are you guys saying that is right that the goverments step on the laws, civil rights to cacht a few criminals by there book i'll tell you something i don't care if it's ilegal i don't do it but am not gonna let them do it either i leave in a country with suposed freedom but a **** is freedom until you get in their book then tell me how are you gonna think that it was for your good damn hell of course not.but this point afects another want what is freedom free to live how you want, to believe what you want, etc..
but not to damage people and hurt others then the freedom stops when you juststart geting in their way
tx for hearing my opinion (my english is quite bad so sorry if i don't express myself well)

Quote:

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what is freedom free to live how you want, to believe what you want, etc..

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That's not freedom.
freedom is doing your duty (see Kant)

What you are discribing is political and religious freedom

That's not freedom.
freedom is doing your duty (see Kant)


i think you have misundrestand me am not talking about political nor religious freedom am just talking about freedom i do't care what it is and plus freedom is not doing your duty is just having free choice
what i was trying to tell you is that everybody is free to do whatever they want if it does not get involved denieing any other people freedom
example:i'm free to goout with watever girl i want as long as she wants to go with me my freedom stops when i try to force her thats not freedom .
tx for answering back.

I could be wrong but it seems that you didn't get my point.
(perhaps it's my poor english?)

I mean: freedom of choice is something from the mind, follow your one mind and will that's freedom.

It's not the freedom to choose vanilla or mokka ice-cream that would just be freedom of action or thought.

Real freedom is a mind thing (think about Nelson Mandela or Ghandi or Martin Luther King and you see what I mean)

I have a dream...freedom at last

yes it was a misunderstud i think like you but i did not now how to express it
tx for expressing yourself.

Sometimes language is diffucult.

So it happens that things get screwed up like hacker / cracker and the freedom issue

Well this topic truly went from one thing to another, anyway Im pretty sure most of the topic has been covered and if anyone would like to add anything else they consider important do so now before this thread falls into oblivion.

End The Flaming! ;)

Oh yea?? well I guess I will follow suit. and get rid of this red light
:D