Hello Antiterrorism act... good-bye freedom...

imho its not the people in government that are power mongers, its the corporations. They have the money and influence to sway opinions.
They get politicians to kinda push things their way when it will go unnoticed. When popular opinion is strongly opposed to these “pushs”, like when the recording industry tried to get the anti-terrorist act to sanction their hacking of private computers in the name of intellectual property/copy rights. Public out cry stomped them into the ground. (I still thing they should be prosecuted for their attempts)
The favors the recording industry could do for the politician’s careers was far out weighed by what supporting such a heinous thing could do to it.
People where made aware, people spoke out. Petitions where signed (I signed them). Letters were sent to representatives (I sent mine).
Look at Norton, they changed their tune pretty fast when it became a public issue. Hell, they might even lose money. “no fbi back doors in my product! Uh uuhhh!

Real information must be distributed, people must be informed, the people will speak out when they know. Not many people really have the time to stay up on all the issues of today. We get our info where we can. All my time is usually spend pouring over technical manuals and white papers. In my last post on this topic I referred to an article on CA. That was my souce of info on that topic. Fortunately someone from here posted a rebuttal to the article, giving me a broader prospective on the subject (thank you Mr. Montana) and that’s my point, someone spoke out.

What's happening in this country is no mystery. It only follows the path all systems follow where any one person or group of persons is put in authority over other humans, which in itself is an inevitable happening (read Animal Farm). All groups go through cycles and cycles of almost exactly what happens in the book Animal Farm, if you start with everyone "equal" the stronger ones will eventually take over the weaker. Until the weak outnumber the strong, thereby becoming the "stronger" group. With their newfound control and desire for everyone to be equal they set up a system where "all men are created equal." Only for the entire process to repeat itself. It's a cycle of nature. What worries me most, is that today the process of strong rising above the weak is occuring on a global scale for the first time in history. Ever. With organizations like the WTO becoming an authority over individual state governments, and further perpetuating the effects of capitalism throughout the entire world, I wonder just how strong the strong will be come. The strong of course being the governments and corporations, in a game where money and political power are worth the most points. I wonder, as I watch the middle class disappear worldwide, dividing all people into rich/strong or poor/weak. But I have faith that what needs to happen will inevitably happen, in time. But we must act. And strength comes not through acts of violence or sabotage, but through unity and the spreading of information. Endofmypost, thanks for listening :D

"Stripping motivated people of their dignity and rubbing their noses in is a very bad idea"....

i have to say, that the problem is not the people, but the system. the people in the offices are trying to do what they think is best (even though it means controlling the people). but the system that we are using has decayed from what it once was. when a system decays, it needs to be rebuilt.... that is where we stand now. on the threshhold of rebuilding a tattered nation. just as has happened so many times before... real:zero is right about the cycles thing. here it begins again....

but we must be careful.... to quote george w. bush... "i don't want to be a divider, i want to be a unificator." hehe ;)

if you start with everyone "equal" the stronger ones will eventually take over the weaker. Until the weak outnumber the strong, thereby becoming the "stronger" group. With their newfound control and desire for everyone to be equal they set up a system where "all men are created equal." Only for the entire process to repeat itself. It's a cycle of nature. What worries me most, is that today the process of strong rising above the weak is occuring on a global scale for the first time in history. Ever. Hmmmmm sounds like biblical prophecy to me
you know the mark of the beast and all that stuff I guess the bible is right

read this....

Quote:

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What's happening in this country is no mystery. It only follows the path all systems follow where any one person or group of persons is put in authority over other humans, which in itself is an inevitable happening (read Animal Farm). All groups go through cycles and cycles of almost exactly what happens in the book Animal Farm, if you start with everyone "equal" the stronger ones will eventually take over the weaker. Until the weak outnumber the strong, thereby becoming the "stronger" group. With their newfound control and desire for everyone to be equal they set up a system where "all men are created equal." Only for the entire process to repeat itself. It's a cycle of nature. What worries me most, is that today the process of strong rising above the weak is occuring on a global scale for the first time in history. Ever. With organizations like the WTO becoming an authority over individual state governments, and further perpetuating the effects of capitalism throughout the entire world, I wonder just how strong the strong will be come. The strong of course being the governments and corporations, in a game where money and political power are worth the most points. I wonder, as I watch the middle class disappear worldwide, dividing all people into rich/strong or poor/weak. But I have faith that what needs to happen will inevitably happen, in time. But we must act. And strength comes not through acts of violence or sabotage, but through unity and the spreading of information. Endofmypost, thanks for listening

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Quote:

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if you start with everyone "equal" the stronger ones will eventually take over the weaker. Until the weak outnumber the strong, thereby becoming the "stronger" group. With their newfound control and desire for everyone to be equal they set up a system where "all men are created equal." Only for the entire process to repeat itself. It's a cycle of nature. What worries me most, is that today the process of strong rising above the weak is occuring on a global scale for the first time in history. Ever. Hmmmmm sounds like biblical prophecy to me

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now read this... the first was by real:zero the second was larryjs... can we say... it's the SAME THING! can we say paraphrase?

Ben Franklin observed that people who trade security for freedom end up with neither. Those may be the truest-and most ignored- words ever spoken. If we unresistingly surreder our rights for the comfortung illusions that national ID chips, airport tweezer-seizures, military border closures, total electronic suveillance af the population or any other mass expansion of goverment power we'll deserve exactly what we get in th end.
Even if we're doomed to end up unfree, thank's to the unthinking trust and inertia of our fellow citizens, don't you at least want to be able to tell your grandchildren that you did everything within your power to prevent it, for their sakes? Don't you want, at least, to be able to pass the embers of resistance-if not a burning torch of freedom-on to them?

I wish it was me who said this, I do agree with it, the writer is Claire Wolfe "Living the outlaw life:"

for those of you interested, go to this site....

http://antiterrorismact.cjb.net

sorry.... put the wrong addy the first time

My view is that a lot of the problems over things like electronic surveillance are due to the fact that most politicians have little or no experience of anything to do with computers. For example, our PM (Tony Blair) admitted a year ago that he wasn't sure how to turn a PC on, let alone how to use it!

Worthwhile attempting to lobby your government, but I don't think it will make much difference. In the UK, some of us in the IT sector went through the same process a years or so ago, when the RIP bill was passed (roughly equivalent to the current legislation passed in the US). But it was easy for the government to dismiss objections as coming from 'computer geeks', and 'naive people' who didn't understand what the government was doing.

Trouble is, I think a lot of us did understand how such powers could be abused.

I just want to thank Dark Lord X for posting that link :)


And I have to agree the "terroist-Act" does go too too too far! I know that were in a time of war but it seems to me that all the US Goverment is gonna do is turn innocent people into terroists and eventualy I can see another up rising! its the same thing! when the weak out number the strong the weak takes over!

As Animal Farm puts it......

I've been sencored by my wife :( Ugh!!!!

damn it!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I had a good theory too............

Oh well.................

P.S. I just want to say that mabe i was hasty on giving out negative anti points . Hehehe control , see even I am not safe with it
:p Hope that we at least can forgive and forget...............:cool:

Maybe, if we,re really lucky and our legislators are fearful enough of our wrath-as they should be-we can forestall the very worst that they and their corporate panderers can do.

But face it we're losers. Freedom's a loser. At least for the time being. Nobody but usual handful of nuts wants it, and even some of freedom's erstwhile pals have backpedaled, compromised, and started sounding like the people they hated three months ago.

Still we can't give up the fight. Those of us who value freedom-truly value it-must go on making noise,demanding serious reductions in goverment reach and power, reminding politicians and everyone else that an America without freedom isn't really America. And above all, we'll go on living like people who expect and deservre freedom.:)

there is no need to stop fighting... even the smallest number of people can make a difference... There is no giving up, if you give up, you are giving in. keep fighting the good fight.

Perhaps we have had a minor effect here in the UK, as the upper house (effectively the Senate), has partially blocked the UK government's attempt to extend electronic surveillance beyond that of the RIP bill. The government here has agreed to a minor compromise on its proposal to require communication companies to keep records of all phone calls & all emails for 7 years. This can now only be done if there is "suspicion of terrorist activity" - deeply alarming that this was not even part of the original legislation. Mind you, who knows what that means in practise?

well man it could be worse... at least they aren't implementing a virus that is essentially a keystroke logger nor are they running the carnivore prog... man it's great to be american