Really nasty case up here (Strong Stomach Required)

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by rcgreen
There's no technological fix for this sort of thing.
It happens when the internet is not a factor.
These wierdos hang out at the pizza hut or the mall
or across the street from the high school.

Public hanging is the right answer.
on sunday afternoon, on the courthouse lawn
with a picnic basket, jugglers, clowns and kids
skateboarding on the courthouse steps.

All of the victim's friends get to look at the
perp, and tease him and call him names
as he is being led up the steps of the gallows
and a preacher solemnly giving him one last chance
to save himself from eternal fire.

Heh, heh.
:cool:

---

True, but when technology is not a factor the scum tend to be easier to avoid.

Chats like Digichat are usually home to the scum because it isn't well structured like IRC is..

The ideas are good, the intentions grand but from a reality standpoint it doesn't always fly. I preach to my clients till i"m blue in the face and the whole attitude is yeah..but....not my kid.

13 year old girl, broadband access with her computer in the bedroom. Every chat program known to man loaded and all up and running. Multiple messages flashing when I go into look at the system, irc installed with her real name typed in, MSN messenger has her real name and phone number available to the public and her job is "whore" descriptin is...will work for bj's.

Parents reaction....not my kid. Initially we put a keylogger on the system, they never monitored it and it wasn't reinstalled after an OS upgrade I just did. I looked at the computer today and informed them of what I found.

Not my kid....

I have kids, I deal with this crap with parents almost daily and I have to tell you I'm weary. They don't care, they don't believe that it can happen to their baby and they are shocked when they find out that my 7 year old is only on the computer with my direct supervision and rarely if ever on the internet.

Set up the kids computer in the basement, bedroom etc...anywhere but where I can see it. I don't want to be bothered with the noise of their games, music, etc etc. I trust my child, they would never do anything like what you're saying.

I've been hired to look into what the kids are doing on the computer and when presented with the evidence..the reaction? Not my kid..must have had a friend over at that time and they were influenced.

I teach Community Ed classes and I have no problem filling the Intro to PC classes, learn to sell on ebay class...packed..walkins waving checks...are we too late? Can we join please?
But...offer 3 classes at 3 different time slots in the evening to make it easy for parents to join, title them Internet Security, keeping you kids safe online...and nobody even calls to inquire, not one sign up, not one class. All canceled.

Not my kid.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by JRoc
Chats like Digichat are usually home to the scum because it isn't well structured like IRC is..

---

This is correct. On IRC you can have ops that will spot these scum and kick them out. Outside of IRC there are few moderated chats. When you have an unmoderated, high traffic chatroom loaded with kids who are not security aware you are litteraly BEGGING for a disaster to occur. I know of a chatroom that is in this condition and it has become high traffic and is a shithole. Sadly is is only a matter of time I believe before a disaster happens in this room.

Quote:

---

Obviously, there is a huge problem, and solutions are short....maybe i'm a dreamer but why can't we do something? We as a group *people who care about security

---

Crazy? Never! I have been thinking the same thing. How many members are on here? LOTS ...How many would be willing to put forth a little time to help kids stay safe????? I really do not think that there are few who would decline. Don't Petitions help for getting your idea noticed through government?? or anything else we can do. So lets organize something??????

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by TechieChick
The ideas are good, the intentions grand but from a reality standpoint it doesn't always fly. I preach to my clients till i"m blue in the face and the whole attitude is yeah..but....not my kid.

13 year old girl, broadband access with her computer in the bedroom. Every chat program known to man loaded and all up and running. Multiple messages flashing when I go into look at the system, irc installed with her real name typed in, MSN messenger has her real name and phone number available to the public and her job is "whore" descriptin is...will work for bj's.

Parents reaction....not my kid. Initially we put a keylogger on the system, they never monitored it and it wasn't reinstalled after an OS upgrade I just did. I looked at the computer today and informed them of what I found.

Not my kid....

I have kids, I deal with this crap with parents almost daily and I have to tell you I'm weary. They don't care, they don't believe that it can happen to their baby and they are shocked when they find out that my 7 year old is only on the computer with my direct supervision and rarely if ever on the internet.

Set up the kids computer in the basement, bedroom etc...anywhere but where I can see it. I don't want to be bothered with the noise of their games, music, etc etc. I trust my child, they would never do anything like what you're saying.

I've been hired to look into what the kids are doing on the computer and when presented with the evidence..the reaction? Not my kid..must have had a friend over at that time and they were influenced.

I teach Community Ed classes and I have no problem filling the Intro to PC classes, learn to sell on ebay class...packed..walkins waving checks...are we too late? Can we join please?
But...offer 3 classes at 3 different time slots in the evening to make it easy for parents to join, title them Internet Security, keeping you kids safe online...and nobody even calls to inquire, not one sign up, not one class. All canceled.

Not my kid.

---

MY GOD TECHIECHICK. I have seen people that were this bad....that poor girl and her whole family are begging.....BEGGING for a DISASTER....and if things keep going the way they are a disaster is EXACTLY what is going to happen....how do you get through the THICK HEADS of people like this....their logic truly escapes me....Thank you for you reply :)

[QUOTE]But one of the biggest problems I see is that the personal computer has become just like the game consoles and is a babysitter. Turn the kids loose and ya don't have to worry about them for a while. Sad commentary on our society, but for the most part, I believe it is true.

This is unfortunately absolutely true! First TV was a babysitter, then video games, now internet. I salute the parents that try to the best of their ability to keep an eye on their kids when on the internet and those that try and learn more. But sadly there are way too many parents that use the internet and computers in general to babysit their kids. Often with grave consequences.

I don't want it to sound like I've given up as I've definately not, it just gets old seeing people insist it's not going to happen to their kid.
I've used this analogy...Ask mom and dad if a knock came at the door at 10pm and a whole bunch of strangers of varying ages stood under the porchlight and asked if their precious could come out and play..and no...no clue as to when we;re coming home...would you let them go?
The typical response is no..and then I tell them, well...that's what you're doing when you let them hit the chat rooms unsupervised. And only in the chat rooms can a 45 year old pedophile hide as a angst ridden 14 year old that understands everything your confused daughter is going through and perhaps they should meet and go shopping some time...and that's the begining.

I do forensic work for private investigators. Typically it's cheating spouses, etc...but I've had my share of pedo work and I've gotta tell you...it shuts me down for a week. Deep, dark depression. The stuff you see is beyond scary. What is normal to us, to our parents and seems innocent is a turn on to the pedophile. You can't be too careful and I'll keep on preaching and I'll keep on being a pain in the tail to the kids in my town but damnit..if I save one I'll have made a difference.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by TechieChick
I don't want it to sound like I've given up as I've definately not, it just gets old seeing people insist it's not going to happen to their kid.
I've used this analogy...Ask mom and dad if a knock came at the door at 10pm and a whole bunch of strangers of varying ages stood under the porchlight and asked if their precious could come out and play..and no...no clue as to when we;re coming home...would you let them go?
The typical response is no..and then I tell them, well...that's what you're doing when you let them hit the chat rooms unsupervised. And only in the chat rooms can a 45 year old pedophile hide as a angst ridden 14 year old that understands everything your confused daughter is going through and perhaps they should meet and go shopping some time...and that's the begining.

I do forensic work for private investigators. Typically it's cheating spouses, etc...but I've had my share of pedo work and I've gotta tell you...it shuts me down for a week. Deep, dark depression. The stuff you see is beyond scary. What is normal to us, to our parents and seems innocent is a turn on to the pedophile. You can't be too careful and I'll keep on preaching and I'll keep on being a pain in the tail to the kids in my town but damnit..if I save one I'll have made a difference.

---

TC....YOU GO GIRL.....YOU KEEP BEING A F'ING PITA to those kids in that town AND THEIR PARENTS....it's the ONLY way you're gonna get though to them.

Memorial services in this case are being held today :(

I usually just lurk here but this thread has me very interested. I have two teenagers. They both have computers in their rooms and I will be hooking them up to a network. I'll be using filters on the router(Netgear FW318) and limiting access times. I'm very involved with my kids, I know their friends, we climb together, listen to music together, etc. I trust them, but I will check logs to see where they are going. One of my kids suffers from depression, so I am more concerned about his activities, but I won't install a key logger. They do not use IRC but do use AIM.

TechieChick,
Do you have an outline for the security class that you do? Have you contacted PTA's about doing a class at the high schools? This topic has me thinking of putting something together for my PTA. I know one problem with that idea is that the involved parents will show up and the apathetic ones won't, but it may interest parents who want to do something but don't know how.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by seemunkee
I usually just lurk here but this thread has me very interested. I have two teenagers. They both have computers in their rooms and I will be hooking them up to a network. I'll be using filters on the router(Netgear FW318) and limiting access times. I'm very involved with my kids, I know their friends, we climb together, listen to music together, etc. I trust them, but I will check logs to see where they are going. One of my kids suffers from depression, so I am more concerned about his activities, but I won't install a key logger. They do not use IRC but do use AIM.

TechieChick,
Do you have an outline for the security class that you do? Have you contacted PTA's about doing a class at the high schools? This topic has me thinking of putting something together for my PTA. I know one problem with that idea is that the involved parents will show up and the apathetic ones won't, but it may interest parents who want to do something but don't know how.

---

The ideas are AWESOME....let's keep it up :).

I want to let you guys know that this afternoon I'm gonna be leaving to go up to our house in Maine. I'm going to TRY to get online up there with my laptop but I don't know how it's gonna work out (lack of local nodes). I want to say that when it comes to this thread, and ALL the threads at Antionline, that this community is AWESOME, and I'm damn proud to be a part of it :D. Let's keep this thread alive and the ideas flowing :). I'll be back here on Tuesday.

Safe travels to you Ratman,

Maybe I'll see you on I-95. I heading up to Maine myself this weekend


Anyway

Some updates on the case:

http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp...3&nav=0Rde9CUW

AND A FORUM WAS HELD UP HERE ON INTERNET SAFETY:

http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp...v=0Rde9CUW9Drv

It's about time. The only sad part was that it took this poor girl's death to make people realise how vulnerable they really are. :(

BTW Got online here in Maine :)

I think the idea of a booklet is a very very good one.

From experience it's hard to get people to read books that they don't want to read, but giving them the information is half the battle.

As for it's the "not my kid" parents, why not include a page / section entitled "It's not my kid" setting out the obvious fact that kids are curious, and prone to running with the crowd, and explaining the importance of online supervision.

Going on step further, I'd like to propose that some of us put together such a booklet, and volunteer a few days of my time to assist with the project. After all our kids are our most important resource. (that and i'm sick of explaining to kids / cops pretending to be kids that 13 year old girls shouldn't be on certain IRC servers.

We could mail the finished article to the big companies in our countries, and try to get them to print it up, and roll it out. (what's the harm in trying)

The only cost to us is a few hours each. The possible gains are immeasurable.

Hell, i'll give it a go myself if peeps wanna take a few moments, and PM their thoughts. If I can get it looking OK, i'll even mail it to the department of Education here, and some of our bigger PC suppliers.

Regards

I disagree with starting large, I think it needs to start locally and grow from there.

I've offered parental/child contracts to parents that are along the line of the SADD contracts. These are built on trust and encourage interaction between parent and child. If a parent walks into a room and the child quickly minimizes the window or closes their IM program that alone is an alert.
I've received permission from the sites owner to use this contract for my classes and for distribution. I reprint it, giving the site credit and hand it to parents with an explanation of what they need to be aware of.

While I like the idea of mailing the larger companies, it's probably not going to get us anywhere very fast. As I was typing this I had a thought, what about contacting companies like Norton (they alreday include OEM versions of their AV proggies on new systems, why not their internet security program as well? Net Nanny is another that comes to mind, yes..I know they are fairly easy to crack for the experienced but they are not our target right now.

Just more random thoughts from the extremely congested, cold medicated, not having a warm memorial weeken mind of TC.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by TechieChick
I disagree with starting large, I think it needs to start locally and grow from there.

I've offered parental/child contracts to parents that are along the line of the SADD contracts. These are built on trust and encourage interaction between parent and child. If a parent walks into a room and the child quickly minimizes the window or closes their IM program that alone is an alert.
I've received permission from the sites owner to use this contract for my classes and for distribution. I reprint it, giving the site credit and hand it to parents with an explanation of what they need to be aware of.

While I like the idea of mailing the larger companies, it's probably not going to get us anywhere very fast. As I was typing this I had a thought, what about contacting companies like Norton (they alreday include OEM versions of their AV proggies on new systems, why not their internet security program as well? Net Nanny is another that comes to mind, yes..I know they are fairly easy to crack for the experienced but they are not our target right now.

Just more random thoughts from the extremely congested, cold medicated, not having a warm memorial weeken mind of TC.

---

Nice Idea TC :)

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by bofhandpfy
I think the idea of a booklet is a very very good one.

From experience it's hard to get people to read books that they don't want to read, but giving them the information is half the battle.

As for it's the "not my kid" parents, why not include a page / section entitled "It's not my kid" setting out the obvious fact that kids are curious, and prone to running with the crowd, and explaining the importance of online supervision.

Going on step further, I'd like to propose that some of us put together such a booklet, and volunteer a few days of my time to assist with the project. After all our kids are our most important resource. (that and i'm sick of explaining to kids / cops pretending to be kids that 13 year old girls shouldn't be on certain IRC servers.

We could mail the finished article to the big companies in our countries, and try to get them to print it up, and roll it out. (what's the harm in trying)

The only cost to us is a few hours each. The possible gains are immeasurable.

Hell, i'll give it a go myself if peeps wanna take a few moments, and PM their thoughts. If I can get it looking OK, i'll even mail it to the department of Education here, and some of our bigger PC suppliers.

Regards

---

Another great idea :) If we can start changing attitudes we will make some headway here.

I think they guy should have his balls cut off just for having anything, such sexual relationships with a sixth grader, not only is it morally wrong.. ITS THE LAW, and lets face the cold facts the girl was probably flattered that an older guy likes her, when GIRLS wear provocative (sp?) clothing I consider it a cry for attention, they cant get attention from home where they need it, so they exploit themselves[hoping to get attention from anyone, ANYONE at all who might be a passer by]. What boggles MY mind is how can any RATIONAL adult take advantage of this poor CHILD? However, I'm not the police but if I was, I’d put this guy in the same cell as a fat guy named bubba who'd make the guy his bitch, and afterwards just cut body parts off piece by piece. I don't live in the same state as ratman2, which is the reason I probably haven't heard about this, instead this ignorant cheese head state talks about how they invented another cheese. Almost every household has access to the Internet, and many have kids, why doesn't the media show this story and its consequences? There are more people at fault than the parents and the man. I, however, happen to blame the ****ing-imbicille-crackhead-****ed~up-mother****er who did this to the kid. God not have mercy on his soul.

Thanx for reading, Jan

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by RuffRyder
I think they guy should have his balls cut off just for having anything, such sexual relationships with a sixth grader, not only is it morally wrong.. ITS THE LAW, and lets face the cold facts the girl was probably flattered that an older guy likes her, when GIRLS wear provocative (sp?) clothing I consider it a cry for attention, they cant get attention from home where they need it, so they exploit themselves[hoping to get attention from anyone, ANYONE at all who might be a passer by]. What boggles MY mind is how can any RATIONAL adult take advantage of this poor CHILD? However, I'm not the police but if I was, I’d put this guy in the same cell as a fat guy named bubba who'd make the guy his bitch, and afterwards just cut body parts off piece by piece. I don't live in the same state as ratman2, which is the reason I probably haven't heard about this, instead this ignorant cheese head state talks about how they invented another cheese. Almost every household has access to the Internet, and many have kids, why doesn't the media show this story and its consequences? There are more people at fault than the parents and the man. I, however, happen to blame the ****ing-imbicille-crackhead-****ed~up-mother****er who did this to the kid. God not have mercy on his soul.

Thanx for reading, Jan

---

ALL RIGHT JAN!!!!!!!! :D

haha hell yea! i like the tattoo and the middle east idea, u know ratman2 u got a great thing started [ ya know? letting the ppl know whats going on, things that are important but noone heard about] i think we should all come over to the guy's house and feed his testicles to the dogs, unless ofcourse THAT already happened when his dog was giving him a blow job

Thanx for reading again

One scary aspect of it is that she never saw the danger
until it was too late. Apparently, she had met other guys
online and had never had a problem, other than that
she shouldn't have been having sexual encounters with
older men.
Maybe all the others were charming and nice, so she had no
fear. Alas, even horror stories like this will not convince
some girls to be more careful. What are you going to do,
lock her in the closet till she's 18?
:cool:

PS This is what the death penalty is for.
Or if the authorities have lost their
balls, a lynch mob could do the job.
:cool:

Very good and challenging posts precede mine, so I will make it short, having not read all of them...but I understand the ideals involved...

Dividing things into 'responsibility factors' derives 1: personal, 2 : parental, 3:societal...

I can believe that most children, as a fault, "just don't know better". I can really believe that most 'modern' parents stick their kids in front of some electronic device (Computer, TV, DVD, Video Game, radio, etc) as a 'babysitter'. I can understand that everyone else DOESN'T GIVE A **** UNTIL AFTER IT HAPPENS.

We preach and praise, we condemn and deify, we wonder....but only after it happens.

I fully understand that now, in the days of "MY RIGHTS", the kids are going to rebel at a rateX10 that I did, and that is probably so for the generations preceding mine. But stop and think...what are we coming to?

Eventually, when a child is born, the courts will demand that the child is set free to determine its own values, its own scope. THIS WON'T DO. If the elders in the population are not even allowed to speak their minds about the structure of humankind...who is? The kids that have no clue about how it really works? The ones that want "MY RIGHTS" to exclude EVERYTHING ELSE"?

Forgive me for saying, but **** THAT. There is right and there is wrong, and everyone knows it. There cannot be one without the other.

Are we so blind that we don't want to 'hurt anyones' feelings', so we allow them to be used and f**king KILLED?.

**** THAT. Any parent that is so lax in their child's SECURITY that it allows them to chat with and be RAPED AND KILLED by some stranger...their bloodline DESERVES TO BE ELIMINATED. **** them, I don't feel bad for them. Exposure to technology, fine...private chat, fine... But if any parent is so disallusioned and blind to their own child's thoughts and behaviors that they would ALLOW them to be put in a lethal situation, then **** THEM. I have no sympathy.

"That's nice, hon." "Good for you, kiddo" ..."Okay, mom and dad...I'm going now..."...

"THAT'S NICE, HON..."

Ouroboros



I apologize for my filthy mouth (again), but I get so frustrated at the things I see around me that result in such pain that could easily be avoided with a little common sense and responsibility.

- O 5/28/02

Just some thoughts about the booklet.
There should be some commen criteria that would cover all age ranges. Then there should be some specifics that are aimed at elementary school kids, junior high, and senior high.
Also, I think there should be different levels of trust involved. Let's face it a straight A student that has never been in trouble and is a volunteer at the local nursing home and dog shelter is going to need less monitoring than the slacker who has been suspended a couple of times and has been caught drinking and smoking, doing drugs. I don't think we need to advocate key loggers for everyone.

Guys, I LOVE what I see :D

There are so many of us here and all in different locations.....we could put out the same thing in all the different locations. That may open some eyes. Its hard though because many people wont do anything or even think of doing stuff untill it's to late. Having some kind of media source would be great. Submitting the pamphlets to a news studio would be a great way to get peoples attention. Then by providind a e-mail address on the air it may open more eyes.

Also included could be ways to talk to your child without them feeling like they are being put on trial. By making them see that its not the child you dont trust buts its all the dangerous people that they may be exposing themselves to.

Also making something that is just aimed at young people...to show them the signs of dangerous people and what to do if they are approched by any people like that. Provide a # or e-mail address that they can report it.. there is so much that can be done.

There are so many of us here and all in different locations.....we could put out the same thing in all the different locations. That may open some eyes. Its hard though because many people wont do anything or even think of doing stuff untill it's to late. Having some kind of media source would be great. Submitting the pamphlets to a news studio would be a great way to get peoples attention. Then by providind a e-mail address on the air it may open more eyes.

Also included could be ways to talk to your child without them feeling like they are being put on trial. By making them see that its not the child you dont trust buts its all the dangerous people that they may be exposing themselves to.

Also making something that is just aimed at young people...to show them the signs of dangerous people and what to do if they are approched by any people like that. Provide a # or e-mail address that they can report it.. there is so much that can be done.

I'm not very creative, but I can imagine a nice
HTML page that could be easily installed on
a kid's first computer.
The first time she opens the browser, it goes
to this well-designed page with all the useful
and necessary advice (with a customized
greeting from parent or guardian).

BTW, a quick google search, and I found:

http://www.safekids.com/kidsrules.htm
:cool:

P.S. A lot of parents buy a computer for their
child at a small computer store that will custom
build it. Those who run these businesses
might find it a good idea to include such
a feature in any system intended to be
a young child's first computer.
:cool:

I'm not very creative, but I can imagine a nice
HTML page that could be easily installed on
a kid's first computer.
The first time she opens the browser, it goes
to this well-designed page with all the useful
and necessary advice (with a customized
greeting from parent or guardian).

BTW, a quick google search, and I found:

http://www.safekids.com/kidsrules.htm
:cool:

P.S. A lot of parents buy a computer for their
child at a small computer store that will custom
build it. Those who run these businesses
might find it a good idea to include such
a feature in any system intended to be
a young child's first computer.
:cool:

I have been Thinking yet again....Well a good way to get alot of attention is if we wrote up a really good editorial and sent it to tons of papers....everywhere theres a member they could send one in. Now this could be with addresss that would further teach the dangers and how to protect your children and yourselves. Lets face it, its not always kids who is hurt in this manner...Just the kids are way more at risk due to a number of reasons.

Even if we set up a simple site to direct them to in the editorial...entailing all of the info we want covered as well as further links.....

Update,
The guy's in court. He pled NOT GUILTY :mad:

Another update:
http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp...9&nav=0Rde9TWn