Artificial Inteligence

another possible relational system, lets say that you numbered different types of relevance, 1. color, 2. synonymous, 3. alive, 4. organic, 5.edible , 6. species, 7. <photographic and visual records> (these are just examples)

so for instance, "apple" would contain entries such as this:
apple, (1)red, (2)<links to list of synonyms>, (3) <links to list of things that are alive>,(4)<links to list of things that are organic>, (5)<links to list of other things that are edible> (6) links to list of other plants> (7) <links to pictures and visual records>

so an inquiry "what are apples?" returns red, food, living, organic, edible,plant, <picture>
put through a program designed to construct coherent speech according to the rules of the english language, the application could concievably return "Apples are a red fruit, used as an organic and healthy source of food. Would you like to see a picture of an apple?"

Mmm... I would personally simply allow the output to display the top few links.

The front-end filter might be able to clump things, but you still want links. Otherwise, let the AI build its own clusters.

perhaps another way to increase the effectiveness of the weighting system could be built using human interactive evolution, for instance. the program give the user a word, such as apple, and a random list of words from its database, and tells the user to choose the word that is the most relevant to the given word (apple) or the option to choose "none" if none of the words are at all relevant. the process repeats over and over, soon incorporating some of the previously chosen words in with the random words from the DB, and each time a word is chosen as the most relevant word in the list, it is given another "weight" point. this way the machine quickly learns how relevant the words are to each other. A similar process could be done to determine HOW the words are relevant and which words are more relevant in certain ways than in others.

Lets face it. Artificial intelligence is not actual intelligence.

I added a degree of AI to the server here with VB as in it checks time performs tasks sends me e-mails and is able to formulate actual sentances from what I have "Taught it"

It would take years to map out the human brain. While you could have preprogrammed responses or even a learning curve AI will never be self aware. (See Terminator 1,2,3)

I also note that the average human brain holds more information than any mega terrabyte disk so storage is going to be a bugger (I think I have some old 100 mb hdds is anyone wants to daisy chain em)

It's a possibility, and maybe as a 'set up' tool to define a base structure for the AI... but typically you want the AI to teach itself through normal interaction. Also need to be carefrul from becoming too compartmentalised, otherwise you limit the database structure.

Basically, the aim is to generate a system that edits itself continually. The next step would be in allowing the system to adjust the database structure by itself.

Another thing, if you are going to teach a program to recognize visual information, we will have to give it more sophisticated visual equipment than the average web-cam. most humans can't even distingush what is going on by those crummy quality pictures. much less a machine that is just learning to interpret visual information for the first time.

mark, human intelligence is not intelligence either. We're all a collection of preprogrammed responses and we all have a learning curve. Self-awareness is an illusion in itself.

acid, once we develop a base patterning system, then a visual system will be easy. The trick there is a form of fuzzy logic comparing system, and there will be a specialist subsection of the database to compare and link patterns in the images to patterns from the database.

damn, that'll take some serious processing power

yeah, that's where it gets scary... that subsection would need to be an entirely different dedicated machine, most likely... or even a separate cluster.

It's actually amazing just how powerful the human mind is... mark's exaggeration aside, it's quite a scary hunk of processing power. Most of the trick is the number of threads it can handle at one time, but that aside, it's still amazingly efficient.

I wouldn't say were pre programmed responses as we can "edit" our response and change it to suit. Different volcabulary for different people is an example.

Choice is not an illusion it is a reality. The ability to decide is an ability that computer cannot possess without becoming self aware. IE Do I go out on Friday or not. I decide to go.

The final scene in matrix reloaded is a great example of how many choices we could make at each given point in time.

"mark's exaggeration aside"

So far my brain has recorded a 22 year high resolution mpeg file with 80,000 hz audio.

Find me a disk that can hold it and I'll buy it from you.

I think the complexity of the human mind is not in it's sheer speed, but in the fact that a computer microprocessors handle only two possible bit positions, 1s and 0s. The human brain handles almost an infinite number of different degrees with the same ease. Its like writing a number in binary then writing it in base 16, the number 13 in binary is 1101, in base 16 its D. 1 bit place vs 4. HMMM which is faster to work with?

When you make a choice, you are providing input to your pattern clusters, and the dominant resulting pattern cluster defines your response. Choice is an illusion... all we are is the sum of our experiences :P

As for your mpeg file, you'd find the compression system is a little different... at best you have a very broken collection of images with a lot of loss that is filled in by associated patterns. Even if you have a photographic memory, there is diffusion and detail loss... it's not stored as a direct representation, but as pattern reinforcements. As for storage space, there are disk systems currently being worked on that can hold terabytes of info on a piece of orange plastic about the size of a credit card.

Mark: First of all, what do you mean a computer can't make choices without being self aware. computers make choices every day! That is a common programming practice. computers read a document's format and choose what program to run it in, game AI chooses to make a certain move based on the player's actions. I know you may say, that computers make those choices based on programming, well so do humans! Neo chose trinity because he loved her too much to let her die. the architect even told him that the one was "by design" based on a contingent affirmation, creating a profound attachment to the rest of the species and neo's was far more specific, vis a vis, love.

"Being Worked on" is the operative term. They are also working on ways to save a gig in a cup of water and turn lead into gold.

Face it "Resistance is futile" I am correct.

Its not the choice anyway. Its the ability to decide and be spontaneous. e.g

babybillybuggerbumpers.

LOL

Computers can be random. There are assorted methods for getting a random response... that's what spontenaity is, really. They aren't AI's yet... it's all a level of processing ability and speed. That's all the Turing test really measures. Is the subject able to process at the speed of the examiner?
As for worked on, I've seen footage of working prototypes and an explanation of the theory... essentially it uses polarised light to inscribe information at different angles on the disc. The biggest hurdle at the moment is the cost, but that's the hurdle on all new advances... also, this was about 5 years ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if it is even further now.

Don't forget thumb drives, as a commercial example... we can put 3 Gb of info into a thing the size of my thumb. Now picture an efficient one the size of my brain... how much storage could it have?

You hand a baby a revolver and he'll gleefully play with it untill he blows his head off, you hand the same revolver to a 25 year old, and he will handle it with care and possibly even fear it. not because he's human, so was the baby, because he has been programmed by his parents, society, and personal experience that guns can be dangerous

Humans are pretty much computers themselves, only with terrific input/output devices and a hell of a BIOS version. We absorb every peice of information that floats our way and incorporate it into our programming instantly. I fully believe we can create artificial intelligence if we just provide a computer with a means to assimilate information and programming to allow it to incorporate said information into it's programming.

Is it true that some old perverts get arrested for flashing their bios at youngsters ?

Anyway. back to what I'm on about. Its decision making that is the key here. If you give a computer a million variables it can't make a decision based on the merit of the variables and I can. Hence tonight I'm going to the pub because this forum is screwing with my brain

i guess the language is not going to make much difference.
what matters is the features that the language is offering. any c based language should prove good. it is the algorithm that results in optimum performance.

go for any language that offers pretty good realtime control.

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by mark_boyle2002
Is it true that some old perverts get arrested for flashing their bios at youngsters ?

---

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Oh MAN that is funny.

Quote:

---

Anyway. back to what I'm on about. Its decision making that is the key here. If you give a computer a million variables it can't make a decision based on the merit of the variables and I can. Hence tonight I'm going to the pub because this forum is screwing with my brain

---

A computer can base a decision on the merit of variables, that is all that a computer can base decisions on, what a computer cannot do is let emotions interfere, then again a computer can be programmed to determine when a certain emotion is appropriate and act accoringly, based on psychological norms, so I suppose a computer CAN let emotions get in the way.(if adequately patched of course)

No, Emotions, Senses, Chaos Theory, Random, Awkwardness. being a *****.

Sometimes there is just no rationall answer for things we do where as the computer must be preprogrammed by some one. It can't just preprogram its self into I'm drunk and I want to smack my bitch up mode now can it.

If someone ever mastered all this I would thouroughly envy them but I would envy the hacker/cracker who gave it the cold more.

Well, i suppose that it can't go into "smack my bitch up" mode. (and here I thought that was a good thing). Anyway, that cracker/virus remark was actually a rather interesting analogy. I suppose a computer virus to an AI would be considered a sickness. perhaps a sort of "immune system" would be needed to protect against such a thing, not just a virus scanner, but more of a coordinated proccess of small programs to patrol and defend against malicious intruders. an AI would be very vulnerable to such an attack too, seeing as its entire function is the assimilate new programming.

S*&^ I just put another tangent on this. I need more coffee. back in a minute.

The thing is, 'smack my bitch up' is still a series of preprogrammed responses. The alcohol is preventing some of the more complex patterns from linking properly, so the base patterns, governing 'anger' and 'aggression' related responses, are kicking in and causing the behaviour. It's still what you're programmed to do... or rather, its still recorded events being replayed.

sickness is still limited, because we don't have an entire body here, just a brain... you'd need a brain related illness. perhaps a virus that creates random segments of the database, or messes with the weighting or linking system. It would be nasty, and hard to guard against, since it would be difficult to recover from.

Remember, this is still an emulation of the biological process, not the actual process itself...

hey wrayth,

Define improvisation as a series of responses would you ?
Shakespear already new his book before he wrote it ?
Babys wouldn't cry unless we taught them to would they ?

Cmon think man

you think man! :P

Of course it's a series of responses. Thats how our brain works. The randomisation factor that creates 'new' concepts is the outside variables that affect the pattern linkages.

Shakespear didn't write anything new, or even anything that people didn't know... his language control centers and linkage efficiency (ie intelligence) were simple faster and more complex that other peoples, so he had a wider base pattern set to draw from... hence his 'creative' ability.

And babies crying are simply base reactions... the 'default' bios setting, if you will. Defined over millenia of evolution... and fairly unique to humans and other large-group social animals. Making loud noises when you're a weak infant is bad to small social groups, but it's pretty good when there are lots of stroppy adults are around to defend you :P

Wrayth we will just have to agree to disagree on this.

One more example then. How come the human race is always inventing new things and surpassing its previous generations ? It can't be preprogrammed because its thinking outside the box.

Do you think a computer could ever be used to solve lateral thinking puzzles ?

At no point are we inventing something that isn't there. We only take existing concepts and link them, creating 'new' concepts. Those are in turn taken and linked. Essentially, meme evolution... but we never just come up with a completely new idea.

Lateral thinking is just concepts linking in surprising ways (possibly some kind of random associated thought process connecting the two for just long enough)... or perhaps two concepts being activated simultaneously by different stimulie.

"New Concepts".

And how do we come up with new concepts from old programming ?

Linking old concepts. Everything new is a step from something old, with some other old stuff added.

Where did we learn the old concepts (note usage of word learn) and also on another tangent if man was the first thing on the planet as per adam and eve in the bible where the hell do these dinosaurs fit into it ?

I once met a christian that told me the dinosaur bones were put in the earth (by the devil) to test our faith..

I think that true artificial inteligence is realy hard to make..

on the other hand it is easy to make something that "looks" intelligent..

I can make a roibot that does stuff in a realy animal like way with realy limited stuff
(2 electric motors a couple of transistors, capacitors and some resistors, and 2 ldrs (light depending resistors)

It doesn't learn but acts realy animal like..

Ok, that tangent lost me... I'm not much of a believer, so I'm the wrong person to ask, but either way methinks genesis is more of an anology or similar.

Anyway, the first concepts came from outside stimulie, events occuring around us that are recorded as patterns, which then start being linked.

The same way every kid learns. We just got more efficient at communicating the patterns, so we don't have to start right at the beginning every time.

Peasure. how do we know pleasure. would a machine ever be able to pleasure my wife ?

Excuse my terminology here but I couldn't think of much else.

Pleasure is very basic... positive reinforcement from the released hormones. Basically a 'good' linkage is being stimulated. Associated with pro-survival modes of behaviour.

This thead is huge, so I don't know if the following had been already covered:
Many labs working on AI subject seems to use 2 main langage:
- PROLOG
- LISP

Their is 1 book often cited "Prolog Programming for Artificial Intelligence" written by Bratko

Networker - LISP has been touched upon but nothing on PROLOG yet.

I attempted PROLOG a few years ago but didn't have the capacity to understand it at the time, I should renew my efforts maybe now that I've started studying AI a little more.

As far as emotions, pleasure, etc go, what is the definition of intelligence? If someone can intelligently answer a question without getting emotionally involved and without getting pleasure from it then where do they come in? I don't think they're needed for something to have intelligence, they're simply another form of input, internal in this case, stemming from the external stimulation we experience.

I've written an AI program that ran off IRC, it simply associated phrases it heard with words in that sentence. While it could never convince any of its listeners that it was truly human, it did fool some of them for a short while. So just a thought, if you were to implement a weight system as has been suggested many times in this thread, it would seem possible to have a system that took sentences it heard and placed weights on the words that caused the sentence to be spoken in the first place, from this the program could respond to other sentences with the stored ones and seem somewhat intelligent. While this is far from self-awareness or true intelligence it's still a possibility for a chatterbot.

Continuing on the spoken language issue, if you read up on the theories that many linguists have about how we learn language you'll see that one school of thought is that we have the basics of language already programmed into us when we are born, this has actually been shown to be somewhat true, or at least appears to be true, when observing deaf children from different locations who have yet to learn any official sign language. Despite having never heard a word before, the gestures they tend to develop follow a similar pattern.

Anyone who is a fan of science fiction and AI/conciousness should read Frank Herbert's Destination Void which is the prelude to the Jesus Incident&Lazarus(sp?) Project.

-Maestr0

Mark, machines are pleasuring people's wives every day. Hell my neighbor has one that makes our lights dim everytime she uses it.

http://www.sexy-smut.com/masturbation/extreme/main.html

Again, "this thread is huge" so I am uncertain if this subject has been touched upon, but have you considered looking ino the foundation for AI, the so called founding concept by A. Turing, "The Imitation Game"?


Replicant

It is not the horror of war that troubles me, but the unseen horros of peace

well, to determine if a machine could feel pleasure, let's examine why we feel pleasure.

We are programed what is good and bad, some instinct, some learned. (hot stove- instinct, bugs- learned) our brain tells us if what we are interacting with is good or bad, the degree to which we think it is good determines our emotional reaction to it, which was mostly imatation of emotional reactions of our interactions as an infant. (what happens when you smile at a child?)

Sometimes some hormones are released too. well, I suppose a computer can't release hormones. however a computer can be programmed to detect environmental factors that could cause their release and imitate the result of their release in a human being. and a computer can be programmed to learn from interactions with humans, so I suppose that a machine could be programmed to feel pleasure, (or at least act as if it does, which I know isn't feeling pleasure, but hey, that's why it's called "artificial" intelligence)