Printable View
First of all NFG, sweetlissa is a member longer than you making you the newbie. You just post whored your way to senior status faster than anyone in AO history. Until you start posting in the security forum or writing tutorials you have no real right to neg anybody here.
As for The Specialist you need to cut people some slack.
Oh Deb and Sweetlissa I gave you greenies to even out your negs and it should add more, NFG I'm going to neg you when I can.
oh i do so look forwed to it.
I really dont care when thay joined compared to me, and im sick of all the bull **** that happones in here at times. it is as bad as a play ground.
Nightfalls_Girl
NIGHTFALLS GIRL I FOUND ANOTHER PICTURE FOR YOU
i hope you like it, i find it very fitting for this current conversation
rioter
Sorry to dissa point you but that is not me!
I am not that thin. and i dont wear bekinies eather! nor am i taned.
Nightfalls_Girl
Yes but I do care, I have to mod this forum. All this bullshit usually comes from a few members, two of them usually and your one of them. Between negging members for doing newbie stuff or causing flame wars you can be a problem.Quote:
Originally posted here by Nightfalls_Girl
oh i do so look forwed to it.
I really dont care when thay joined compared to me, and im sick of all the bull **** that happones in here at times. it is as bad as a play ground.
Nightfalls_Girl
Oh and this place can be a playground, especially with some of the little kids running around it.
Some times I think having a conversation with a brick wall would be more stimulating then some of the ones that happon in here,
Nightfalls_Girl
If this were a playground, it's one I wouldn't take my son too. He'd be scarred for life :pQuote:
Originally posted here by Ennis
Oh and this place can be a playground, especially with some of the little kids running around it.
oh well atleast he would be educated :P
Nightfalls_Girl
That's because you have nothing to say.Quote:
Originally posted here by Nightfalls_Girl
Some times I think having a conversation with a brick wall would be more stimulating then some of the ones that happon in here,
Nightfalls_Girl
no she has stuff to say, its just unreadable and when you do translate it, its usually utter ****
umm you cant even spell i doubt there will be any education going onQuote:
yes i know there is a edit button but pfft effort++
You know, it's nice and all that you all admit to how much you like or don't like someone but it doesn't address the issue at hand. So perhaps you could spare the rest of us the fancy entertainment and help us deal with this issue. We have a community that has many levels to it. I personally see:
- general users looking for security help
- general communicators looking for a place to hang their hats
- those who want to show their superior knowledge to others
- those that want to share their knowledge
- those that want to share their knowledge but don't really know or understand how to (lack of ability to "teach", english is 2nd language, immaturity, etc.)
- "industry" types looking to add to their knowledge and willing to help others
These are generalizations, certainly, but the point is that the community is made up of a lot of different types of people. To assume that we're all the same isn't fair to the new person here nor to the person that's been here forever.
By creating a "manifesto for the non-newbie" member will it truly solve anything? Heck, I've even considered that some "newbies" are not that newbish and are very adept at getting around. They understand the culture just fine, thank you ma'am.
I've also wondered if it's worth helping newbs (from a devil's advocate POV). I'm constantly harping at my school that I won't help students with simple questions (dumb looks are free however). If a student comes to me and asks how to install snort, they are reminded at the power of Google. Hand-holding isn't something I want to do for newbs but at the same time, I don't think it's necessary to tell those newbs that are trying to fit in to leave outright (hey, if after 1,000 posts they are still *******s, then yes, tell them the door's thataway).
Anyways, that's my ramble in between marking sessions... back to the battle of the red pen.
I still stand by what I do...when someone asks a simple straight forward question, I google for it for them...doesn't take a minute, and it gives them a good link....but I also give them the link to google, and tell them it's 1 of 135,328 hits I got there ;)
MsMittens> The biggest problem that I am seeing is that we have a newbie that is advocating being mean to other newbies simpley because she has 8 green dots so she isn't worried about gettting banned. Personally, I think someone should go through and find out who gave those greens for BS posts and ban every single one of them. Then maybe we could have a somewhat decent site again. You will also notice that the peopel that are the worst to the newbies are the same people that don't know wtf they are talking about. They feel that they can be "special" because they can talk **** and redirect people to google.
TheSpecialist> Can you make a post without swearing? Just curious. I just think its funny that I haven't seen a post from you in quite a while that didn't include a curse word, and we all know that swearing is just a way to express yourself without having to use real intelligence.
NFG>
Quote:
I really dont care when thay joined compared to me, and im sick of all the bull **** that happones in here at times. it is as bad as a play ground.
We are sick of the crap that happens in here too. And considering 90% of it has to deal with you, then if you just go away we would all be happier. You, because you wouldn't have to deal with the bull **** that you are sick of, and us because you would be gone.Quote:
Some times I think having a conversation with a brick wall would be more stimulating then some of the ones that happon in here,
MsMittens> sorry, just read the rest of your post....
I agree with the entire thing about not hand holding, but to an extent. Let me give an example. Say its the first day of class (ie, newbie) and one of your students rasies his hand and says that he hard of a thing called an IDS but wasn't sure what it was, you would tell him that it was an Intrusion Detection System and basically what it does. Now in the middle of the semester (JR member) if that person asked how to install snort, you would tell them to go use google because they should have enough education to understand it. By the end of the semester (senior member) if they asked a question like that, you would realize that they were *hopefully* joking and be eexpecting questions like... do you have any idea why I am gettin all RST packets from IP x.x.x.x because I can't find anything on google about it and I was wondering if you had ever experienced this.
But also as you say, some newbies are not that newbie. Look at EE with his 1 post. Or juridian/hogfly/rioter/etc. They were all newbies at one point and already had more knowledge then a lot of the people that are senior members.
Ah but they have attempted to do research at this point. So I wouldn't tell them to use google. That's the difference at this point. (actually, in the course, even for questions like this they get "charged" for asking an expert so they save their questions for the ones that really matter). I expect that as times goes on newbs do learn something like:Quote:
..do you have any idea why I am gettin all RST packets from IP x.x.x.x because I can't find anything on google about it and I was wondering if you had ever experienced this.
- Antionline: how do I? is for questions about Antionline, not about how do to something else
- attempt to research first. If no answer is found, or it's too confusing, then ask
- be polite in asking and don't go on about how long it takes for someone to answer
- be clear and provide details that can help others help you
- answer questions asked if more detail is needed
On the other end, the "expert" (be it someone with the title newbie or senior) should probably do something like:
- answer the question asked
- not demean the person asking the question for being stupid
- provide location/support/resources that the "askee" can look at to learn from
- ask questions to elicit further information if required to answer the question
That all said, we all have our bad days (I tend to get punchier at this time of year due to exam/paper marking) and we don't all speak/write english perfectly. Sometimes we rush through our posts because we are desperately looking for an answer and miss words/phrases or misspell them.
More random thoughts from the land of the Red Pen... I've left my brain somewhere and if anyone finds it please return it to me..
I found a big squooshy gross-looking thing over there in the corner, might that be it?
MsM> That was my point. We don't want to hand-hold someone all the time, but we can do it a little bit for the newbis and point them in the right direction to help themself. After they have been here a little while, they should know how to use google and other search engines to at least get a start on what they need so they can properly ask a question to find out what they really want to know.
ie.... "my computer is broke, can someone help me fix it?" that isn't going to get you any help.... "My computer won't get a response when I ping an outside address... My current setup is XP with Sygate Firewall and a lnksysrouter in default configuration...." Now that is going to get some help because we know exactly what they are working with. But the newbie would ask the first question and instead of flaming them, it would be better to ask them to be a little more specific and find out what OS/programs are running and what the problem is.
here it goes my first serious post in like 3 years you people, and your wierd ways, im going to attempt a negative style quote reply type dealy here so hopefully it works
most antionline members have a very basic grasp of the english language if you need an eg please shoot your self, ok those still with me, most people dont research hence the problem bet if we scoured the forums 90% of the questions could be answered with google or even better the respective manuel for whatever they are asking the question on who would have thunked itQuote:
Originally posted here by MsMittens
[B]Ah but they have attempted to do research at this point. So I wouldn't tell them to use google. That's the difference at this point. (actually, in the course, even for questions like this they get "charged" for asking an expert so they save their questions for the ones that really matter). I expect that as times goes on newbs do learn something like:
- Antionline: how do I? is for questions about Antionline, not about how do to something else
- attempt to research first. If no answer is found, or it's too confusing, then ask
- be polite in asking and don't go on about how long it takes for someone to answer
- be clear and provide details that can help others help you
- answer questions asked if more detail is needed
the problem with the way antionline works, is its all ego based if we do ask a question to get the required info we get called a post whore, if we say use google or man said product we get negged for being unhelpful or something, yes i am exagarating but you get my pointQuote:
On the other end, the "expert" (be it someone with the title newbie or senior) should probably do something like:
- answer the question asked
- not demean the person asking the question for being stupid
- provide location/support/resources that the "askee" can look at to learn from
- ask questions to elicit further information if required to answer the question
btw i have a right to demean people its in my rights some where if im having a bad day,im deffinatly going to take it out on some stranger
agreed but come on you can at least read through it once to make sure it makes some kind of sense, yet again if you need an example please take your self out side and shoot your self for the good of humanity. And yes i realise there are typo's in this but meh you can read it unlike 99% of nightfalls girls posts(shes still fat btw)Quote:
That all said, we all have our bad days (I tend to get punchier at this time of year due to exam/paper marking) and we don't all speak/write english perfectly. Sometimes we rush through our posts because we are desperately looking for an answer and miss words/phrases or misspell them.
thats my rambelings at 4:30 in the morning
i hope you enjoy
were not smarter than all of you, we just google quickerQuote:
But also as you say, some newbies are not that newbie. Look at EE with his 1 post. Or juridian/hogfly/rioter/etc. They were all newbies at one point and already had more knowledge then a lot of the people that are senior members.
rioter> of course you can demean people. But you also prefer to do it to people like NightfallsGirl and |the|specialist, who both truly deserve it. You don't just randomly post negative comments about some newbie (normally). There is a big difference between telling NFG that she needs to learn english and telling a newbie that he is a ****ing retard becasue he didn't use google.
Hello all,
In my Opinion, Its Fine to Neg and Flame when its "nessessary"I Guess.. But When I got 10 Flame E-Mails , got Almost Negged to DEATH, for trying to help some poor shlub find somthing for his 2000SE Stuff ... and Later I even gave him the answer to his Question... EXactly I Personally Dont Think that is called for... and as for Misspellings , From what I have seen The only Person who Does NOT misspel words on this board is Ms Mittens....
Cheers and Happy Thoughts... (Specialist)
pj104
think what ever you wont to. you are not worth the hassle of lowering myself to your leval.
Nightfalls_Girl
Come on people, let's not let this turn into a flame war..
Anyhow i think that some of the ideas are good, but still it will take time before these new Ideas will be inforced so to speak..
But i guess that if everyone used some Maturity in how they treat the n00bies, then this plan should go well, but of course we are always going to have people who are gonna do what they want anyhow wethere it's the right one or the wrong one..
So let's just agree to Disagree..
Well that's my 2 cents
cheers
Rtman
leval? and is mine low? do they have pills for that these days?
misspel hehe you misspelled misspell I find that funny sorry :P
NFG, the door's thataway -->Quote:
Originally posted here by MsMittens
(hey, if after 1,000 posts they are still *******s, then yes, tell them the door's thataway).
Don't do that, you might become intelligent and learn how to put two facts together and leave or you might get some knowledge and help some people out here and prove that you could have earned those points.Quote:
think what ever you wont to. you are not worth the hassle of lowering myself to your leval.
I don't think i need to add anything to this thread because every important point has been covered by Souleman or MsMittens.
I think that this thread should be closed, It has gone over bored many times.
Nightfalls_Girl
I suggest that maybe a Moderator or Administrator closes this Thread..
It's already gotten outta hand and away from the Topic at hand..
Cheers
Rtman
well lets see why it went off hand..... Wouldl it be because the same person that started taking it off topic is bitching because its off topic? We try to keep it on topic then get posts like..
I think the thread should stay open and people should discuss the proper topic and don't make stupid posts like that which have absoutely nothing to do with the original thread.Quote:
think what ever you wont to. you are not worth the hassle of lowering myself to your leval.
Ratman> The biggest problem is that any "rules" that we set up can not be enforced. We will still have senior members that feel the need to flame and neg the newbies. And 95% of the time, the reason that the member is doing the flaming is because they don't know the answer themself and just want to look cool.
Uggh, imagine a thread like this becomes a flame war, makes you think dont it.
Having to close my own thread, for ****s sake.