75% of what though?
I like the idea of leaving room for mod descretion with early access to the forum. That's a good option to have.
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75% of what though?
I like the idea of leaving room for mod descretion with early access to the forum. That's a good option to have.
I'd agree to this, it seems fair enough and at least this way no-one can complain about elitism happening from not being accepted into that forum..Quote:
I stand by the requirements of my original post. I like the idea that the mods would have the ability to remove members.....lowers the percentage of trolls that way. I'd also like to add that early entrance should be an option provided the mods and a CLEAR majority (75% perhaps) agree that member x has shown a level of knowledge and maturity that merits early entrance
f2b:.
Someone, some where will suggest that mods play favourites. I think it's been suggested once already.Quote:
I'd agree to this, it seems fair enough and at least this way no-one can complain about elitism happening from not being accepted into that forum..
And if people think there is something to complain about, no matter how small, they will... ;)
The best way is to merge a lot of condition like they do for custom title.
For the first round of peoples invites in the forum, I would take everyone with
1) Be to an ACTIVE (Key Word here) for the last 3 months.
2) A minimum of 1500 positive antipoints
3) A minimum of 300 posts in security related forums.
Number can be modified to reach consensus. I think it’s important that the members are active member. In active member, I mean users who their “Last 20 Posts by User” don’t go back more that 2 month in the past. I put 1500 AP because if we didn’t use them, this would render the AP somehow useless.
To get in forum after its creation, once a month (First day of the month), a moderator should run a query in the databases to see if new users reach the following requirement.
1) Be to an ACTIVE (Key Word here) for the last 3 months.
2) A minimum of 1200 positive antipoints (Number can be change)
3) A minimum of 200 posts in security related forums. (Number can be change)
The minimum of 200 posts in security related forums is to limit the peoples who want to get to in the forum by using a bunch tutorial to get AP fast.
If new users are found, a moderator created a poll for each user in the forum and people vote on it. Users need a 90% acceptable rate and a minimum of 10 votes to get in (Number can be change to reach consensus). If the member if accept, the thread is delete (Or move to graveyard) and the users is invite by the moderator. The thread should be deleting so users doesn’t know how is pool went. If he refuse, he had to wait 2 months to apply again with a maximum of 3 apply in total.
I don’t think peoples will get “fired” from this forum once they are in so I don’t think it’s necessary to talk about that.
What do you guy think? Forget the number! Those can be talk after!
Sounds good to me, though that'll be a while longer before I can get in. :( But hey, whatever works, I have no problem with that. Sounds feasible.
After getting all that **** and get into the forum, that's all it will be. A forum. What a joke.
And there is nothing wrong with bieng elitist. If they want a place to go and shoot the ****, that's great. I mean, if you do not like bieng elitist, then do not be a part of it just like anything else.
Whooooaaaa.....voting people in??? When I mentioned voting, I was referring to voting on sending an invite to someone who had not yet met qualifications but was extremely knowledgable and of a mature discipline. As someone else said, IronGeek comes to mind as someone who might soon qualify for an early entrance into such a forum.
If we set forth minimum qualifications then thats it....meet the qualifications and you're in. If we start voting on people who meet those qualifications then we run the risk of becoming a bunch of elitist bigots and AO SURE doesn't need anymore of those. If someone makes the cut and turns into an ass, then let the mods get rid of them. This needs to be based on ability and knowledge, not popularity and vanity so I'm not in favor of APs having any influence on entrance requirements.
[off topic, sorta]
How many dots is 1500 AP?
1500 ap's = 5 dark green dots and 6 bright green dots add them together and you get 11.
:)
Ok thanks, now I know what they are talking about up there :D
Back on topic I don't think voting in would work... Same reasons as others have posted... Someone will get pissy and complain and bitch, someone else will decide to join the fun, etc etc. We end up with HT's thread in addicts. I think it should be a comination of AP and post count, or voting in early (ONLY voting if they don't meet the reqs, but others believe they should be in.)
AP's can't be used to consider a member knowledgable or not. You get rarely ap's because you helped a person. I mean, when I posted that the new phrack was released I got alot of ap's from people. When you say something funny you also get ap's. How does that show one's expertise? MemorY had 11 dots and he knows nothing.
The amount of tech posts and their quality is the only thing to be looked at. And their quality is to be judged not on basis of ap's.
If people think about this for a min - If you have a forum where only "senior memebers who know what they are talking about" are allowed access to, what are you going to talk about??
Most senior members usually answer posts by people asking questions as they genrally have a better knowlage about the various subjects discussed.
Very rarley do they make a post asking for help (im not saying they dont just that its rare) so if this forum is introduced what exactly is going to be posted here??? In my opinion it will end up in the state addicts is in at the moment - very very few posts about "computing" and heaps of threads talking about certain members, because thats all thats left to talk about that isnt talked about in all the other forums!
Nokia, this is something I adressed in Tiger's similar thread.
There are some topics I think would be best suited for this kinda forum. For example, check out the topics I've posted in Addicts. I really, really don't want "newbie" advice since it's so darn complicated -- I only want to hear from the experienced AO members that I've had a chance to develop a level of trust with. Anyone else -- I really don't know if they'd lead me astray or not, and those are topics I can't afford to be lead astray on lest I watch my whole network go to the very depths of heck and back.
In my opinion, those are the kind of topics that this new forum idea should focus on. The rest, I think, should still stay in the normal forums. But when it's a complicated, sensitive matter that should stay between us, then I'm all for this new forum. I don't know about you guys, but it would be a great resource for me personally.
I know what your saying but I feel you are slightly in the minority - check out the first page of addicts and you will see yours is one of the few posts asking for help, when I should be the other way round, the majority of the posts should be like yours as that is the idea behind addicts. -At the moment if addicts dissapeared tomorrow it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference to AO, it would just mean that no one would have a place to go to moan about everything!
But there is no reason newbie advice couldnt be as good as or better then the advice a senior memebr can give you. The title of newbie only means new to AO not new to computing.
The only reason to ask a senior member something that you wouldnt ask a newbie is as you said, the chances are you will know a senior member better than the newbie, not because he has a different title
However the title of senior member doesnt always mean that they know a lot about computing, it just means they have made a lot of posts (we all know who am talking about here)
You're completely right, Nokia. That's more or less what I was trying to say. Specifically, I mean seniors that I've learned to trust because they've demonstrated their mastery of their fields.
And yeah, I have noticed I'm kind of the rogue tech-poster in addicts. I'm hoping I can set a precedent and the others will catch on though...Maybe over-ambitious in that notion, but it's gotta start with somebody, ya know?
There are a number of knowledgable newbies, but we need a chance to get to know them and build that trust in their expertise. That happens naturally though. I imagine IronGeek will be a senior with us before too long, plus I like the idea of allowing a means of approving such people into the forum when they demonstrate such expertise on the front end.
el-half, I think it's really important to keep AP in the mix. If you only stick to number of post, post whoring will happen. I rarely see members with 1500 AP who doesn't have knowledge in computer security.
If you talk only about tech post, peoples will try post whore. (You know the typical of check Google) The best is to merge 2-3 conditions. Like you said, AP is not the best way but merge with 1-2 others conditions, I think it's the best!
heh, yea, you're right about that post whoring. I agree with you now.
I also agree with SDK. You have to merge various conditions to make it harder for someone to "cheap shot" their way in. Kind of like custom titles, you really have to do well to get one.
Again, what is the use of the forum anyway? After all that work and whatever you need to do, you will go there and it will be *gasp* another forum, and not the Holy Grail that is the ultimate forum of the inner secrets of the "all-knowing" senior members. I remember when I finally got access to the addicts forum a couple of years back that it was pretty lame.
I am not saying the forum is a bad idea, go ahead, have your little invite-only room. Many forums have it. What I am saying is that it will be IMO what the addicts forum was supposed to be... senior member chit chat only with more requirements.
I will burst the bubble for newcomers as well... when you finally make it, you will say "Damn, I did all this work for this?" Yes that's right. That's all it is. Isn't that GREAT? If you really want to go where there is real stuff to learn, then you might want to consider reading *some* of the tutorials (some are plain ****), and start going to NNTP with the area that you are interested in. There are thousands to choose from :D Oh here's the best part...
**looks around to make sure nobody is looking**
...you do not have to kiss ass to discuss. ;)
Frankly, it's get away from people with attitudes like yours.... 'nuff saidQuote:
Again, what is the use of the forum anyway?
I like albn's attitude more than the attitudes of a lot of the addicts/seniors... Some people have turned into real a holes lately, not to mention any names. B****ing and complaining constantly is not an atitude I like. I like people who say it how it is, and do things to fix stuff that is messed up. albn is a great example of a say it how it iser, kind of like quad.
Which is exactly my point. People do not like hearing the what needs to be said. I will continue to say what is on my mind and tell it the way it is. If people do not like what I say then people like you can join your little clique and continue to play your little elitist games. if I never see it, that will make me and you happy.Quote:
Frankly, it's get away from people with attitudes like yours.... 'nuff said
TheGrunt, thank you but no thank you. I am not what an AO member should be. I am a troll, and post things newcomers should not do. I am not here to set an example, nor do I want to make examples. I am here to say what a shithole elitist place this has become.Quote:
I like albn's attitude more than the attitudes of a lot of the addicts/seniors... Some people have turned into real a holes lately, not to mention any names. B****ing and complaining constantly is not an atitude I like. I like people who say it how it is, and do things to fix stuff that is messed up. albn is a great example of a say it how it iser, kind of like quad.
When I first joined AO waaaaaaay back when JP was still running the site from school, the site actually meant something and the content actually made me learn new things. Quad also was in those days along with hogfly, chsh, The_JinX and others. I really liked the mailbag, eye on the underground, the wargames, the updated docs, e-zines, and software (which included exploits, virii source code, and lots of other goodies). I also liked the intrusion log where Bub (god how many people hated Bub) would explain what those attacks. The forums were NOT the focus of the site, and AP's did not exist. What was used to moderate and control the ****? The other members would take a big **** on you and would make you never want to come back.
Lastly, AntiOnline had a very dark/underground feel to it where serious administrators and hackers could learn to protect themselves and learn what the "others" where doing, and since this site got grabbed my a big corperation, it has turned to a milktoast fest.
Thus, no new forum will change the way things will go here, but if people really want a place to feel 1337, then so be it. I will still be here no matter how many times I get banned to say the way it is. Then I hear some of you say "Then if you hate this place so much, then why don't you leave?" I am here because this place still has potential for being a great site, but you folks have to know where the roots of AntiOnline really are.
For a history of what AntiOnline really was about, check http://archive.org and type www.antionline.com in the query field and look at it. Yep, those were the days...
albn,
Refer to my previous post. I think that's the best reason for it. Some threads can't afford to have trolls show up or people who think they know it all but don't start adding crap advice to it. This would allow those more sensitive threads to stay on focus. I know I have a couple of threads that would get crazily confusing really quick if that were to happen.
Looking at you profile you like to offer opinion more than anything. Opinions are like *******s.... Everyone has one son.... But they don't neccesarily mean a thing.
You think that because you like to gob off and take the piss you are some kind of 'groundbreaker".... You say it like it is..... ROFL.... You say it the way _YOU_ see it and when you have grown a tad you will understand that.
BTW, if getting away from the puerile here to talk about the things this site is here for is being elitist then fine.... I'm and elitist.... and proud of it and if it keeps me away from your overinflated ego and "oh, I'm so friggin' cool" opinions all the better.....
Now trot along.... Mummy will be calling you for dinner soon..... :rolleyes:
[Edit]
Wasn't Duran Duran an girlie band from the 80's.... ROFLMAO.....
[/Edit]
Hey now, keep Duran Duran outta this... ;)
I am no groundbreaker. Never have been. And yes, I am glad you see that it is MY opinions. If you do not like them, fine. I am not here to kiss your ass or anybody elses' ass for that matter, and if that bothers you, then you can kindly ignore me like others have. Again, have your little forum.Quote:
Looking at you profile you like to offer opinion more than anything. Opinions are like *******s.... Everyone has one son.... But they don't neccesarily mean a thing.
You think that because you like to gob off and take the piss you are some kind of 'groundbreaker".... You say it like it is..... ROFL.... You say it the way _YOU_ see it and when you have grown a tad you will understand that.
BTW, if getting away from the puerile here to talk about the things this site is here for is being elitist then fine.... I'm and elitist.... and proud of it and if it keeps me away from your overinflated ego and "oh, I'm so friggin' cool" opinions all the better.....
warning... off topic lame duran duran history starts
They had most of thier hits in the 80's yes, but also had some success with the 1993 self titled release dubbed the Wedding Album with the song called "Ordinary World". They started in 1978 with some friends from school including Stephen Duffy who made a lot of nice records and is in collaboration with Nick Rhodes with a band called "The Devils".Quote:
Wasn't Duran Duran an girlie band from the 80's.... ROFLMAO.....
Warren Cuccurullo finally left the band (former guitarist for Zappa and Missing Persons) and the orginal five members finally got back together in 2001 to start touring and make a new album called "Astronaut" due for relase in October 4 in Europe and Japan and then the rest of the world will follow. The first single will be "(Reach Up For The) Sunrise" which was included in the "Queer Eye For The Straight Guy" soundtrack along with others such as Elton John and Sting.
I am a proud fan of Duran Duran, and if that makes you ticklish, then that is fine. In no sense of the word is Duran Duran a great band such as The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, The Eagles and others, but that's who I choose to like.
End off topic ****
Now we are in agreement. I say what I want to say, and you want to be an elitist.
You guy getting out of discusion!
We are talking about multiple condition here!
1) Be to an ACTIVE (Key Word here) for the last 3 months. (If msntgrl can code something to know is a member is active or not)
2) A minimum of 1200 positive antipoints (Number can be change)
3) A minimum of 200 posts in security related forums. (Number can be change)
That sounds great to me as long as we're all in agreement here. In which case, let's get on with it! :)
Damn Terr, you were right at 300 posts on 10/11/2001. You were within 100 posts of being a senior, except there wasn't a senior status then was there?
I didn't come on board untill almost 6 months later and everything was pretty much as it is now....well almost anyway.
That says it all, the topic has been argued for and against, the poll has been posted with an 87% vote in favor of a new forum.Quote:
That sounds great to me as long as we're all in agreement here. In which case, let's get on with it!
So how about it JupMedia, can we have it or not?
:) I think it's a good idea. And i think it should be restricted in the way to gain entry, but
i also think that all members should be able to view it and see the posts on the main page.
As was posted here, you can see the discussions but you can't post in it.
I don't think it would add to the site if it's closed like addicts is, if you can see the forum,
you might find some info you are looking for or need, you could just pm the poster and politely
ask for some assistance, with any stupid or annoying requests reported.
As it will be a sensible forum only, the quality of discussion would benifit the whole site, not just
the select few..
Just my thoughts...
I vote for the forum. I also like the early entry idea. One member that comes to mind is poohsuntzu. I also like the kick anyone who dissents idea. Maybe it would be a good idea to not count posts in that forum either. To a large extent, that might prevent established members going beserk and using it to post whore. It might also be a good idea to have the forum be moderated and off topic stuff (non-security/computer related posts) to be deleted or moved.
Cheers,
cgkanchi
OK....how about scrapping all the suggestions regarding entry requirements? Let intmon, mnstrgrl, neg and MsM (admins and mods) do it as an invite only and concentrate on the tech-savvy (both security and hardware/OS) members. From that point let the core group decide who gets in. Make the threads viewable to the general community so the knowledge gets shared, but only members can post so the discussions don't get diluted with useless BS. Everyone benefits from the information within the forum and the rigid entry requirements would serve to make us all better members as those who desire entry to the forum would concentrate on technical discussion contributions (a prerequisite for entry to the forums).
Elitist? Probably so but it would still serve to enhance AO as a whole.
Sounds good to me!
So can we have it or not, Jupiter Media?!?
Enhance? That is the funniest thing I heard all day. If that forum actually does something Al, I will personally shake your hand and say I was wrong. As for the read only for non elitists, that's a fair idea I suppose. Like I said before, there is nothing wrong with another forum, if the admins add it great, if they add the requirments or whatever.Quote:
Elitist? Probably so but it would still serve to enhance AO as a whole.
The question clearly is.....Quote:
If that forum actually does something Al, I will personally shake your hand and say I was wrong.
Can Albn afford the gas to get from the toilet to low earth orbit..... I suspect MacDonalds dosn't pay him that much.......
Albn: Your problem with "elitism" is a common problem... It's one where people fully understand that they aren't capable enough/intelligent enough/qualified enough to be member of any given group. As such they cry "elitism" in an attempt to prove they have the intellect but are being "closed out" by people that don't like them.
Allow me to educate you..... You, like everyone else in this world, will be disliked and shunned by many groups in this world, as we all are depending upon numerous factors including personality, social skills, professional skills, looks and level of idiocy. You would be denied from this proposed forum not for just one of those but for several..... Personality, social skills, professional skills and level of idiocy come to mind...... I could care less about your looks...
This is why you cry 'elitism".... It's a common whine from those that no-one wants near them....
Since you understand why you will never be invited "in".... Why not go to IM and try to impress some 13 year olds with your knowledge, style and looks..... 'cos it ain't working here son...... :rolleyes:
Okay, let's go through your rebuttal one thing at a time:
It is funny how you know where I work. I have never worked at McDonalds before. I have never held a 9-5 job, and have been my own boss for the last 15 years. I get paid pretty decently, and have nice benefits through SEIU Local 434B. On the side, I do web applications and system administration for Professional Internet Soultions in Hawaii. Good going Sherlock.Quote:
The question clearly is.....
Can Albn afford the gas to get from the toilet to low earth orbit..... I suspect MacDonalds dosn't pay him that much.......
As for taking a ****, yeah, I just took one, and it felt great.
It is not a matter of me "wanting" to be in your little kiss ass club that is making me "cry elitism". Sure, I can become a little kiss ass and join it, but I do not wish to be part of that group. It is also very funny you accuse me of voicing my own opinions when your opinions are not even remotely based on fact rather it is based on your lame assumptions on what I do. That is even more proof on the opinion I have of this place.Quote:
Albn: Your problem with "elitism" is a common problem... It's one where people fully understand that they aren't capable enough/intelligent enough/qualified enough to be member of any given group. As such they cry "elitism" in an attempt to prove they have the intellect but are being "closed out" by people that don't like them.
Also, I do not need "friends" here, so I do not give two shits if you or anybody else likes me.
I have no interest or desire to be in your little forums as I said before. I voiced my OPINIONS about the forum. Go ahead, go there, kiss some ass and we will leave each other alone.Quote:
Since you understand why you will never be invited "in".... Why not go to IM and try to impress some 13 year olds with your knowledge, style and looks
Also, I do not need to prove **** to you. I know what I know, and the only people my skills matter to are myself and the man who pays me to do his work, and he is pretty happy with that work.
So now, you have become the perosn you do not like. A whining little bitch that voices his opinions. Ohh wait, I forgot. Since you kiss ass, that gives you a license to do so. Fine. Have it your way, because your little weak attempts at a rebuttal does not mean anything to me.
:flip:
WOW, Ive just added the very first person ever,to my ignore list!
Way to goooo, albn!
And :flip: to you too!
Way to go for you too. :booty:Quote:
WOW, Ive just added the very first person ever, in just over a year, to my ignore list!
Way to goooo, albn!