Wtf

Neither one of you two are making a good case to prove your points againts each other. Relax for a bit, and take a breather :).

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The Quran is not the "Word of God." There is only one God, and there is only one Christ, and there is only one "Word of God", with that being the Bible. Neither God nor Christ has ever instructed Christians to give credence to or worship other Gods. As matter of fact this is forbidden by God.

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Yes there is only one God (according to our faith). Keep in mind that there is more than one religion, and not everyone believes in the same supreme being as you do. Christians and Muslims believe in the same God. Muslims believe in Jesus, and they aknowledge him as being the last prophet. They also believe in Mother Mary, and they aknowledge her giving birth to Jesus as a miracle. However, they do not believe Jesus is the son of God, and they believe that God had no son. When we go to church, and when Muslims go to a Mosque, we are both praying to the very same God. Both Religions believe that there is only one God. The Muslim religion also believes that Allah, has more than one name and they fully accept the other religions.

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Yeah. And that is why the World Trade Center Towers became a burning mass of rubble.
As for fighting - I would fight for my right to be free, but try as they might, I cannot be converted, for I know Christ as my saviour. What is wrong with wanting to convert Islamics over to Christianity anyways?

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What is wrong with wanting to convert Christians over to Islam anyways? Careful there, you're walking on thin ice.


I'm going over the Quran overdue, please be a little more patient everyone. I have to translate it so it makes much more sense. I'm also tryin to find the quotes that you posted form that website. I have 2 Qurans, and they're both translated in Albanian. Give me some time ;).


I was babtized when I was 16 years old. Before that, I had no religion because Albania was a communist country, and religion was banned. However, I have been taught the teachings of both religions. Islam and Christianism. Take this by personal experience: Neither of the two teachings told me to go Kill anyone..on the contrary, they both said that God/Allah punishes those who kill. However, I was taught by both religions that the only time you can kill another human being is when you absolutely have to, in self defense, and only if your life is in danger. They both taught me to love one another, and to respecte everyone, not to hate, not to discriminate, not to be cruel to other people/animals and most importantly, they both taught me to respect the faith of people but to also share my religion and teachings with them if possible.

Peace.

The muslims do not believe Jesus to be a true prophit although the do acknowledge him. Mohommad is the true profit, he came AFTER Jesus. The Kuran is his word. God spoke to him in a cave.

Allah is just the Arab word for God, and like RoadClosed said Jesus is acknowledged in the Qu'ran (afaik, Muslims believe that both Mohammed and Jesus have the same origin, being descendents of Abraham; Mohammed from Ishmael and Jesus from Isaac.) Abraham is thought to be the founder of Mekkah. Jesus is seen as God's messenger, just like Mohammed is.

I hope Cybr1d can provide the exact quotes, but from what I know Islam is not at all a religion of war (war is the last resort, harming civilians is prohibited,...).

Correction.. Jesus is God's son, he is the savior, not a messenger of God.

I was talking about Islam, and I don't think they see Jesus as God's son. They believe him to be a "human prophet sent by God", but by no means a part of God.

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Originally posted here by Negative
I was talking about Islam, and I don't think they see Jesus as God's son. They believe him to be a "human prophet sent by God", but by no means a part of God.

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Mah bad, thought you meant through Christian beliefs.

Whore, you are still wrong... Jesus was a savior AND a messenger... He came to save and he came to tell people to disregard the old testament... as it dealt with revenge and sacrificing animals and such... Jesus came and said no, be nice to everyone, no matter what.

(notice that this is a very dumbed down version of it, but there are enough people here who haven't studied the bible that it probably needs to be an abridged version)

Apparently there is some truth to that ‘blood of jesus’ page:

A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

An extremist Islamic cleric based in Britain said yesterday that he would support hostage-taking at British schools if carried out by terrorists with a just cause.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...5/wosse705.xml


S1lv3rW3bSurf3r any attempt at compromise at this time would be very reminisant of the 1930’s appeasement policy in Europe and I don’t think that would work today anymore than it worked with Hitler. Would any peace negotiations not include giving up support for Israel or handing over vast portions of countries with large Islamic populations to this so called liberation movement which wants to drag the entire world back into the bronze age.

<conjecture>
These fanatics have been trying for some time now to incite/unite the Muslim peoples from the Philippines threw northern Africa into revolting then joining up with them to form one Islamic state…one extremely large and hard core Islamic state. (A base for further expansion into Europe, southern Africa and china?)
</conjecture>

Now if the actions of Russia and the US and our allies egged on by unthinkable acts of terrorism combine to cause the Islamic nations to unite and rise up we’ll then see a world war like no other. We the west, feeling totally the victims and appalled by the ruthless nature of these fanatics WILL resort to using weapons of mass destruction (if they don’t use them first) feeling totally justified to stop the onslaught of this vast horde any way we can (Russia has used gas in Afghanistan in the past) and will probably be quite surprised to find that they have had them all along as well.

Russia doesn’t much like Syria and has tried to invade Iran in the past. Pressure from the US and the threat of an atomic war stopped them. I don’t see us trying to stop anyone from invading Syria or Iran any more. I see us helping them.

I agree with Putin and don’t think we should negotiate with child killers. If someone doesn’t find a solution to this mess pretty soon then let the madness begin.

Hi Tedob

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A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152)

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That is not what it says in the manual old chap :)

1. It is Sura 6:151 (152 is about looking after the inheritances of orphans)
2. It says:

"Take not life, which Allah
Hath made sacred, except
By way of justice and law:
Thus doth He command you,
That ye may learn wisdom"

The commentary says: " For the comprehensive word haqq I have used the two words "justice and law": other significations implied are right, truth, what is becoming etc. It is not only that human life is sacred, but all life is sacred. Even in killing animals for food, a dedicatory formula "in the name of Allah" has to be employed, to make it lawful"

Source:

The Holy Qur-an
English translation of the meanings and Commentary
Mushaf Al-Madinah An-Nabawiyah
The Custodian of The Two Holy Mosques
King Fahd Complex For The Printing of The Holy Qur-an

Revised and Edited By:
THE PRESIDENCY OF ISLAMIC RESEARCHES, IFTA
CALL AND GUIDANCE

Interestingly, it also says that it is "a gift from the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Fahd Ibn Abdul-Aziz for the spreading of Allah's Word (Not for Sale)"

Now, I cannot see any relationship between what is written there and the goings on of recent years. Nor does it seem to be a particularly good way to run a Jihad, more like Awad to me?

1. Justice..............well what is death row if not a judicial execution?
2. Law...................ever heard of self-defence?

I don't think that either of those apply to 9/11, Bali, the Russian school, or all the other events. These are the acts of cynical political manipulators who would dearly love to see a West vs Islamic confrontation.

Montesquieu had it right when he said something along the lines of "There have been more men killed in the NAME of God, than in those of men's petty ambitions"

My thoughts are once again "read the manual yourself", not the views of third rate hack journalists and political scumbags. ;)

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Originally posted here by Tedob1
Apparently there is some truth to that ‘blood of jesus’ page:

Edit:
S1lv3rW3bSurf3r any attempt at compromise at this time would be very reminisant of the 1930’s appeasement policy in Europe and I don’t think that would work today anymore than it worked with Hitler. Would any peace negotiations not include giving up support for Israel or handing over vast portions of countries with large Islamic populations to this so called liberation movement which wants to drag the entire world back into the bronze age.

&lt;conjecture&gt;
These fanatics have been trying for some time now to incite/unite the Muslim peoples from the Philippines threw northern Africa into revolting then joining up with them to form one Islamic state…one extremely large and hard core Islamic state. (A base for further expansion into Europe, southern Africa and china?)
&lt;/conjecture&gt;

Now if the actions of Russia and the US and our allies egged on by unthinkable acts of terrorism combine to cause the Islamic nations to unite and rise up we’ll then see a world war like no other. We the west, feeling totally the victims and appalled by the ruthless nature of these fanatics WILL resort to using weapons of mass destruction (if they don’t use them first) feeling totally justified to stop the onslaught of this vast horde any way we can (Russia has used gas in Afghanistan in the past) and will probably be quite surprised to find that they have had them all along as well.

Russia doesn’t much like Syria and has tried to invade Iran in the past. Pressure from the US and the threat of an atomic war stopped them. I don’t see us trying to stop anyone from invading Syria or Iran any more. I see us helping them.

I agree with Putin and don’t think we should negotiate with child killers. If someone doesn’t find a solution to this mess pretty soon then let the madness begin.

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This is 1 war i do not believe that the west is prepared for yet, Tedob1. on brute yes, however, the tactics and rules of engagement have changed. the inner cities will become the battlegrounds, troops are not trained yet for urban assault, door to door, house to house battles. people in civies, people from your neighbourhoods fighting against you who do you target, isnt this made even more apparent in the streets of baghdad, where the cowards dress in civies and blow themselves up or take out a few troopers with assault weaponary?!


if one attacks these nations, their brothers amongst the other nations will arise, correct cybr1d?!
we could have large scale rioting, say like in michigan in the lansing, monroe area !? i do not believe that the enemy is outside anymore, i believe they are within, 9/11 proved it.

i also do not believe that a war is inevitable, no grey area, a war, now there is very little grey area left , but i still believe that this will only spur islamist on, this could be the beginnings of dajjal and the false peace cybr1d?!

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"Take not life, which Allah
Hath made sacred, except
By way of justice and law:
Thus doth He command you,
That ye may learn wisdom"

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thanks nihil, for a complete transcription of the text. If the text above is what we are discussing, i cant see a problem on it. "way of justice and law"... isnt what civilazed world do? Like when US kill people on the green mile? Doenst look like a "freedom to Kill". Its more like a "restriction". So Myth busted

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Now, I cannot see any relationship between what is written there and the goings on of recent years. Nor does it seem to be a particularly good way to run a Jihad, more like Awad to me?

I don't think that either of those apply to 9/11, Bali, the Russian school, or all the other events. These are the acts of cynical political manipulators who would dearly love to see a West vs Islamic confrontation.

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thanks nihil. You have got the point again. Just because there is musslim crazy people (terrorists) that should be killed at once (as Putin did), we cant generalize and think that every musslim is a terrorist in potential too.

About the 3rd war, isla x west, i cant foresee this except if "west" continue to pressure musslim people and conduce them to a jihad against us. Remember, some Wars just start like that. You push, push, bush, push ,slave, invade, colonize, and suddenly buuum! War starts.

dont push too hard, because they can push you back.

All Empires has fallen because the "barbarians" :D

I dunno.... I think that even the most optimistic of radical Islam can't see a way to generate a military force with sufficient cohesion to invade Luxemburg let alone Europe as a whole. I trained with several "persons of arabic descent" shall we say..... on several occasions.... To be quite frank, they couldn't manage any kind of war to save their souls. They may be able to defend quite well as their country is overrun and in the ensuing period but as to launching an actual attack/invasion.... don't make me laugh any harder, please, I just put these depends on an hour ago..... The Iran/Iraq war was what 10 years of them pissing at each other across a line in the sand that barely if ever changed. The Arab/Isreali conflicts last mere days and if the arabs are on the offensive we get the shortest possible wars. As front line combat soldiers they are severely lacking.

So it's not an all out attack that we have to worry about... It's the continued cowardly attacks which, to be frank again, are easy to deal with...... Isolationism.... Throw them all out, period, simply because they can't be trusted not to sneak attack you, draw the line that they cannot cross and every time they appear to be building a military capability greater than required for their own defence bomb it into oblivion..... Since they have no offensive ability even when armed by the west we don't have that much to worry about...... We have the power and the fighting men.... We just need the will to survive.... Without which we are doomed....

And before you say "Oil, Oil, Oil... we have to trade with them for oil".... Fine.... They bring it to the border and we'll pick it up..... Without the revenue from the oil they will starve to death before we run out of the supplies we control.

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You push, push, bush, push

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Hey now, watch it with the liberal subliminal messages! ;)

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And before you say "Oil, Oil, Oil... we have to trade with them for oil".... Fine.... They bring it to the border and we'll pick it up..... Without the revenue from the oil they will starve to death before we run out of the supplies we control. [/B]

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If USA doesnt need the oil that much, why invade Iraq in the first place? to Shutdown Saddan, that was there BECAUSE the USA? (yeap, USA bring this guy up to fight agains Iran, remember?
Or better, why USA, UK and other rush to protect Kuwait agains Iraq invasion? because was a UN decision?
but why not rush to defend poor countries on affrica against each other? ahn, because they are POOR and has no value to USA.
Unfortunately, USA is SO dependant of international oil. Yes, USA has a huge deposit of oil on his land, but USA cant stay THAT much without international oil.
Other point is USA army is dependant of oil, but those "arabs" that you want to keep in a ghetto can fight on foot, on camels, without water, starving and whatever.
Of course a mariner or any soldier of USA can take 20,40 arabs. But they are MILLIONS.

If it was that easy, USA would invaded Iran 10 years ago. But it cant. Why? Because its easy to say, hard to do. Except if USA send 1,000 nukes there and kill everybody... but it will destroy oil fields too :D

Just to remember, USA was kicked out of Vietnam just thinking that its easy to win with a huge army (yeah, yeah, other countries helped vietnam, but.. stilll)

Hittler had the same thought .... and see what happened.
as Annibal
Napoleon
Bush oops...

(subliminal rocks :P )

Islam extremist don't have to invade anyone, they break apart the cohesion of your society.

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because they are POOR and has no value to USA.

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Talk to the UN about that..... They aren't interested either..... Probably has something to do with the fact that many of the UN leaders are from those countries and it's in their interests to keep the people poor......

You see how you whine about the USA not going to one place and then you whine about them going somewhere else...... That's exactly why there appears to be no consistency in the US foreign policy except for protecting it's assets..... Note also that none of those people from starving nations are arming terrorists, training them or developing/using WMD's..... But I'm sure that's just irrelevant......

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they break apart the cohesion of your society

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No-one can do that unless the society itself has no cohesion and no desire to have it remain cohesive..... You _let_ them do it.... Your problem...

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You see how you whine about the USA not going to one place and then you whine about them going somewhere else

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im not whinning... in fact i rather prefer that USA does nothing and stay behind its frontier lines.... ;)
Im just showing you USA can be see as "Good" or "Evil", depending on the arguments that you/me use....
And showing you that besides USA IS the greatest, major biggest powerfull in the world, USA can still be beaten by small countries, with starving, bare foot people.
And as the supreme nation in the world, it would be advisable stopping acting as an "Empire" and starts to act as "Brotherhood nation". When USA invade a country, even on a good cause, some countries start to think "Oh, boy, in the past is for terrorism, now is for oil, and next it will be for what? food? water? space?. Its better start to make huge weapons and do a preventive attack to USA. Meanwhile, i will start to kill its citizens". Ring a bell to you? its exactly what is going on now.

Just recaping about bare foot people:

USA x Korea - USA lost
USA x Vietnam - USA lost
USSR x Afeganistam - USSR lost
Iraq (suported by USA) x Iran - no winner, but a lot of ppl died.
Germany x USSR (WW II) - Germany Lost
USSR x China - almost started; i bet that USSR had lost, even nuking China to the Death
UK x Argentine - UK won (easy), but most countries celebrated when Argentina sink that UK ship.
Israel x A lot of arabs countriess - bets were agains Israel, but Israel won (easily)

Of Course USA/USSR won a lot of too. Just trying to demonstrate that you cant allways win, even with a great army a lot of money.

BTW you are correct about UN (they don care), but i was rather using the "follow/dont follow" UN directions idea.

You can win, if the society within supports the action. Case and point, USA vs Korea, USA vs Vietnam. Hard to win a war without support of the people behind the machine.

Tedob1: takeing what extreamest do and claiming it stood for all members of a religion is a very dangerous stance. By that logic I could say that christians beleive that its ok to kill atholics because they are evil and worship the devil, Jack Chick said so.

USA x Korea - USA lost&lt;-----------------USA didn't lose, they just didn't win//stalemate (actually UN war)
USA x Vietnam - USA lost&lt;-------------A war can't be run from 12,000 miles away, by politicians
USSR x Afeganistam - USSR lost
Iraq (suported by USA) x Iran - no winner, but a lot of ppl died.
Germany x USSR (WW II) - Germany Lost&lt;------------there were slightly more than just the USSR in this.
USSR x China - almost started; i bet that USSR had lost, even nuking China to the Death
UK x Argentine - UK won (easy), but most countries celebrated when Argentina sink that UK ship.
Israel x A lot of arabs countriess - bets were agains Israel, but Israel won (easily)

Your views of history are very simplistic, and doesn't really do juctice to the arguement you were trying to make. There are many factors that make up a war. Popular support, economic factors, distance of supply lines, and adverse weather all play a factor in every war.

Afaganistan verses the USSR is a prime example. The Afgans were fighting from a home field advantage, and didn't have to support their troops. The USSR had a horrendous supply line problem and the whole war was not cost efficive for them......the costs were not worth the rewards.

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troops are not trained yet for urban assault, door to door, house to house battles. people in civies, people from your neighbourhoods fighting against you who do you target

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The British Army has been fighting 'urban' warfare for over 30 years: Ulster: The ultimate training ground.
Don't tell me you thought it was being done for the benefit of the locals ...........................

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If USA doesnt need the oil that much, why invade Iraq in the first place? to Shutdown Saddan,

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Saddam was head of a Nation State. It is only with the backing of nation states that the terrorist can grow without fear of retribution.
He was also guilty of calling on a pair of dueces. He strode the world stage making like he was THE man.

Rule 1 : When playing big boys games. You play by the big boys rules.

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If it was that easy, USA would invaded Iran 10 years ago. But it cant. Why? Because its easy to say, hard to do. Except if USA send 1,000 nukes there and kill everybody... but it will destroy oil fields too

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Like hell it would destroy the oil fields ............ At worst, it would destroy the surface infra-structure. At best, use of neutron weapons would leave EVERYTHING standing [bar the inhabitants, of course]

And the ONLY time that ANY Arabic army has fought well, was when the Israeli Army put women into the front line .............. Arabs were determined NOT to be beaten by a WOMAN ........ Mind you it bites both ways. When a woman was shot, a dozen men would rush to her side, to help her back to the MASH unit.

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Originally posted here by bballad
Tedob1: takeing what extreamest do and claiming it stood for all members of a religion is a very dangerous stance. By that logic I could say that christians beleive that its ok to kill atholics because they are evil and worship the devil, Jack Chick said so.

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B...thats not what im saying at all.

im saying the terrorists are performing such attrocious acts to incite reactions from those they attack that will affect muslims in general. right not i think most muslims believe that the west is not waging war on islam despite the claims of the fundamentalists but how will they feel is russia with the blessings of the west invade iran or syria or begin their own horiffic campaign in the caucausis? once retaliation to these acts of terror starts, and it must, it will be rather easy to cause it to get out of hand with some more attrocious acts. how do you think muslims in general would react to detainmemt camps? or shelling uban areas with nerve gas even if its the morphine type used in moscow?

Bballad, extremism is Islam is much more tolerated on a global scale than extreme christianity. The basis of Mhammed's word - is to convert.

from an article entitled Russia shapes plan of attack:

On a piece of white cloth inside an escape hole dug into the gym wall are written the words, "Here began the Third World War - against Terror."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0910/p07s02-woeu.html

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Russia comes to grips with the magnitude of the Beslan tragedy - with the death of some 330 hostages, the secondmost lethal terror attack in recent history after Sept. 11, 2001.

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How many more of these until everyone agrees it's time to stop playing panzy UN talks and wipe the floor with every single one of these scumbags and everyone attached in any way to them?

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Originally posted here by cacosapo

but why not rush to defend poor countries on affrica against each other? ahn, because they are POOR and has no value to USA.
(subliminal rocks :P )

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HI Cacosapo. To correct a misnoma ........ Remember Somalia?! And what About Liberia?! US Sent Soldiers to Somalia, then they got killed like dogs, set up for ambush and boom boom boom. btw, Somalia is only country still that is run by warlords rather than a government........... Liberia, US Sent in marines after the French could not hold the Rebels Back. Get this, The MArines Landed on Docks and the Rebels immediately Enterred into talks to end the rebellion. Charles Taylor runs and voila ... no more war. They dont want to disarm, (The Rebels that is), so US sends 1 aircraft carrier, wow, peace treaty signed, government of national unity in place, dictator loses, democracy wins, game over.

Also, no one country gives more aide to africa than the US..... the country (US) realises its humanatarian importance, btw, bill gates paid for and fully funded a schools network for our rural communities. it cost millions, and he paid, btw, the computers on these networks run fedora .go figure, but please brother, i just wanted to rectify you on that statement ............... peace and love ............. I also think that they the (US government USAID) are very humble, they do not bring big launches, but you ask any government official in most african countries, they all get massive amounts of aide from the USofA........ DARFUR anyone. That has been going on since time immemorial. here arab militia were slaughtering the Christian dominated west Sudan. (This Happened at an increased rate since Osama spent quite a few Bob in Sudan building Infrastructure there)....... So Colin Pwell makes a speech and hey ho... the world takes note?! why?! where was amnesty international then?! Viva USA VIVA ............

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Originally posted here by foxyloxley
The British Army has been fighting 'urban' warfare for over 30 years: Ulster: The ultimate training ground.
Don't tell me you thought it was being done for the benefit of the locals ...........................

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Hi foxyloxley....... Ireland, is that not the case for self-determination? And yes, I will agree, the battles there have been house to house, but not on the scale I speak of, say Bradford or Bradistan as I think its called ?! hahahaha ....... Lets say the stuff hits the fan and everyone there goes for extermists point of view, and they launch an attack, how do you differetiate between an enemy combattant and someone just walking up the road!? Tanks?! Curfews?! ala The movie The Siege?! whatabout people in the neighbourhood who do not share these peoples views for example?! is it cut and dry?! and who will make the curry at the end of the day?!

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Also, no one country gives more aide to africa than the US..... the country (US) realises its humanatarian importance, btw, bill gates paid for and fully funded a schools network for our rural communities. it cost millions, and he paid, btw, the computers on these networks run fedora .go figure, but please brother, i just wanted to rectify you on that statement ............... peace and love ............. I also think that they the (US government USAID) are very humble, they do not bring big launches, but you ask any government official in most african countries, they all get massive amounts of aide from the USofA........ DARFUR anyone. That has been going on since time immemorial. here arab militia were slaughtering the Christian dominated west Sudan. (This Happened at an increased rate since Osama spent quite a few Bob in Sudan building Infrastructure there)....... So Colin Pwell makes a speech and hey ho... the world takes note?! why?! where was amnesty international then?! Viva USA VIVA ............

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That all depends on how you look at, of course ;)
The US give $23.76 per capita per year on foreign aid. Luxembourg gives $352.30 per capita per year... There are at least 20 other countries who give "more" than the US (a LOT more).

Also, if you look at the absolute figures, Japan is giving more (according to the CIA factbook): $9.1 billion Vs. $6.9 billion.

If you look at the foreign aid per $GDP, it's even "worse": $0.06 per $100 (at least 20 countries give more than that; Denmark gives $1.04 per $100... that's 15 times more).

Not trying to deny the US's foreign aid, but don't go saying that they're the top donor... they're not - by far.

And BTW: Amnesty International has been in Sudan for quite some time already... they've been screaming this out for ages. The world took note a long time ago already.

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..... Remember Somalia?! And what About Liberia?

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forgot those two, thanks. Somalia is that help where that movie "Black hawk down" is "located", right?

yeap, it was a bad time for US troops. Its damn hard to fight far from home on a non-regular war...

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Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

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Ok i'm making some progress with translating the Quran. Sorry for the delay but i'm having a hard time translating the prayers too which are in arabic.

That quote is missleading. Everyone who knows the story, knows that those who worship fake gods, will be punished. AFAIK that goes the same for both Muslim and Christian religion. Now the proper quote is:

"And when the holy months are passing, fight the idolaters wherever u find them, enslave them and entrap them on every corner. If they repent, let them go because indeed Allah is the merciful"

The quote is followed by this:

"And if an idolater seeks a shelter, they're to be sheltered in a way to hear the word of Allah, and after to be accompined(escorted) until the place where they're safe. This if they're from a population whom do not know the truth of islam".....I do not see the word kill/slay anywhere in there.

I have to get going, I'll post more soon.

Here are more quotes from the website: http://www.demonbuster.com/islam.html
which are trying to show the faith of Islam as a violent religion whom wants the destruction of anyone who is not Muslim. It has quotes from the Qoran, which I happen to own. It also has quotes from a couple of other books to which I do not have access to so I cannot go over those quotes. I've looked over the Quran, and noticed that most of the quotes that were posted in that website, are posted out of context and are very missleading. Someone who is can easily be brainwashed, can be very easily taught to kill simply because "The Quran says so". No, the Quran does not say that. Here we go:

note The quote from the website is posted first, then it is followed by the actual text from the Quran.

THEM:

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"I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them" (Quran 8:12).

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THE QURAN:

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And when God revealed to the angels that: 'I'm with you, encourage those who believe! I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, and you (the angels) smite them above their necks and press upon their limbs'

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THEM:

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"The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures" (Quran 98:1-8).

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THE QURAN:

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1. Those from the followers, and those idolaters whom did not believe, and did not separate themselves from their faith, until their clear punishment arrived. 2. The One sent by Allah, whom reads clean pages. 3. On which there's only truth. 4. and being that those were not ordered otherwise, rather than to love Allah with a love sincere towards him, and to deny any other futile faith, to forgive namaz and to give zeqat (AFAIK give to the poor and visit Mecca at least once) because that is the only true faith. 6. There's no difference because those whom did not believe the followings of the book and believed the idolaters, they'll be in the eternal fires of hell. Those are the most damaging creature. 7. Meanwhile, those who believed and did only good deeds, those are the creatures that are beneficial. 8. Their reward is with their God: places in paradise where there is gushing rivers, they're there forever, always in health. Allah is pleased with them, and they're pleased with Allah. And this is for all those who have been devoted to their God.

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THEM:

Quote:

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O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

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THE QURAN:

Quote:

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O ye who believe, Do not befriend Jews and Christians. They are friends of one-another. And those of you who befriend them, becomes one of them. Indeed Allah does not put in the just road, those who are scroundels

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THEM:

Quote:

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Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied with fighting for Allah's cause. (Sura 2:273)

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THE QURAN:

Quote:

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(GIVE) to the poor who are headed towards the road to allah and are not able to give life through the earth (grow crops), given that they are not begging, and those who do not know their own situation and think they're rich (those who do not beg). Those you recognize solely from their appearance, but whom do not ask because they do not want to bother people. Then whatever you can give from your wealth, there is no worry because that, Allah knows very well. 2:273 ---- Those whom share their own wealth, on their way to God(AFAIK headed towards mecca), night or day, secretly or openly, those have their reward with their God, and for those there is no fear. 2:274

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One needs to know that "THE WAY TO ALLAH" is not refering to going around killing people in the name of Allah, or dying for that matter. It is refering to the pilgrimage that all Muslims must take, if possible to Mecca at least once in their life time.


THEM:

Quote:

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Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

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THE QURAN: [/quote]High places with forgiveness of sins and mercy from HIM(Allah). Allah forgives much and is merciful 4:96[/quote]

FROM THEM:

Quote:

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Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101)

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FROM QURAN:

Quote:

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When on the road, It is not a sin to shorten your namaz, and if you are afraid that the unbelievers will bring you any malice. Unbelievers are your open anemies

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FROM THEM:

Quote:

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They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90).

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FROM QURAN:

Quote:

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besides those whom shelter in a populatoin, with which you an agreement, and besides they come to you, and you cannot get the will to fight, Allah will give you the will to wage war againts them. If those do not wish to fight you, and offer you peace, Allah prohibts you to wage war againts them.4:90 -- You will accept others whom seek safety with you (while appearing as believers) and whom find safety amont their own people (as unbelievers) and if called(againts you) they respond to the calling. If they do not leave, do not offer peace, and wage war againts you, then capture and kill them wherever you meet them. Againts them, we've given clear facts 4:91

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THEM:

Quote:

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"Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193).

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THE QURAN:

Quote:

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Fight those idolaters until their propaganda is ended and until the faith of Allah is applied upon them. And if they stop their propaganda, then leave the animosity, expect for those whom are scroundels

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THEM:

Quote:

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If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39).

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THE QURAN: it says something similiar to that, BUT

Quote:

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Those who try with their mouths to shut the light of Allah (Jewish and Christian priests) and Allah wants nothing else but to shine his light, and the nonbelievers hate that 9:32 -- Allah is the one who sent his messanger with directions that are just, and truthful, to make it the faith above those faiths which are futile 9:33

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He is saying that if your faith is in danger, and you do not fight to protect it, then you will be punished. You have to read the text before and after that quote to understand its meaning. Its not saying to go to war for no reason.

More to come.

Umm Cyber1d, any on who thinks demonbusters repesent the feelings or attatudes of any sane or rational person is deluded themselvs....Peorsnaly I realy hope they are a very well done bit of satier or perhaps a parody along the lines of landover baptist. The demonbusters are far out enough that most fundies reject them as nut jobs, if you want a little more main stream look at what american fundimentalists think hte quoran says look to pat roberon and his ilk.

Quote:

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Umm Cyber1d, any on who thinks demonbusters repesent the feelings or attatudes of any sane or rational person is deluded themselvs....Peorsnaly I realy hope they are a very well done bit of satier or perhaps a parody along the lines of landover baptist. The demonbusters are far out enough that most fundies reject them as nut jobs, if you want a little more main stream look at what american fundimentalists think hte quoran says look to pat roberon and his ilk.

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I was presented with some quotes by OverdueSpy, and I simply volunteered to verify the authenticity of those quotations. They say they're quoting the Quran. I own a copy of Quran and had some free time in my hand ;)....In no way do I believe anything that demonbusters says in their website LOL...i was just trying to clarify those quotes. You can read the actual quotations from the Quran that I posted, and make your own decision on their meaning...I'm sure they mean different things to different people.

Other than that, I have no clue what you said in your last 2-3 sentences ;).

Great Post Cybr1d - I enjoyed reading it immensely! It's quite enlightening when you can understand in context the underpinnings of a religion.

One thought though. It's too bad that the terrorists are not getting the same trasnlation from the Quran as you are. I don't mean that as a jibe Cybr1d, rather more of an insightful thought process.

Thanks again.

i think the 'real' muslims have found half of the answer:

http://www.freemuslims.org/

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Ireland, is that not the case for self-determination? And yes, I will agree, the battles there have been house to house, but not on the scale I speak of, say Bradford or Bradistan as I think its called ?! hahahaha ....... Lets say the stuff hits the fan and everyone there goes for extermists point of view, and they launch an attack, how do you differetiate between an enemy combattant and someone just walking up the road!? Tanks?! Curfews?! ala The movie The Siege?! whatabout people in the neighbourhood who do not share these peoples views for example?! is it cut and dry?! and who will make the curry at the end of the day?!

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IF, the stuff hits the fan, and there is an uprising within mainland UK, the standard answer is to take your losses, absorb the attack, withstand and retaliate............

In a civil war there are NO innocents, there are only targets............
How do you differentiate. You don't. You shoot first, and let God decide who was innocent. In my book, a successful mission is one where the enemy die, and my troops survive.

Curfews work, if you implement them ABSOLUTELY. The 'innocents' will NOT take to the streets after time, as they would be aware of the penalty.

Well i will just state the obvious, that religon as a whole is the evil of the earth.

Without it we would live in relative peace.

How can you quote quotes that are a crock of **** in the first place?

A book of words written and re-written way too many times to hold anything truthful.

This thread has gone sideways to the original post that condems theses ****ers, nothing
to do with religon, it's a war and only cos the chechen terrorists are muslims is it somehow
related to religon.

It' the reporting from the west that has created a feeling of us against the muslims, that
continues this so called jihad.

It's the policy of the corrupt U.S. that strengthen's this feeling in the islamic world.

Why did 9/11 happen? Was it because the corrupt Saudi Gov, upset osama by taking control
of his fathers business, then returning power to a weak and obliging bin laden brother that
was easily controlled?

Does the fact that the corrupted Saudi Gov, shakes the blood and oil stained hand of the U.S.
to line their own pockets, and disregard their own people, have anything to do with this?

Seems strange that most of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, and supposedly funded by
another Saudi.

I say that the cause of this new war called "terror" is the direct result of corruption and arrogance
and absolutely nothing to do with religon.

Too many corrupted ****ers running the world is the cause of all this.

As soon as the super powers wake up and see this, the sooner we might just be able to put in
reverse the motion that is now, before we all will suffer the end result of these few who think
that a gazzillion dollar defense budget entitles them to make their own rules, break their own
rules and critisize, attack, liberate, bomb, kill mame and wound, anyone else who stands up and says you can't do that.

Quote:

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Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest

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http://www.tzwaenn.de/lyrics/Simon_a...The_Boxer.html

"Was it because the corrupt Saudi Gov, upset osama by taking control
of his fathers business,"

well hell, why didnt he just say that! now that is just cause to muder three thousand people 3 years ago and 150 some children last week. embaseies around the world, how many planes...none of them military targets. why did he feel it necessary to lie and say it was because of our support of israel. did he feel we wouldn't understand?

how can you defend these freaks? any argument they had has been made moot a long time ago.

I'm not defending anyone.

I just see the aftermath of the arrogant policies and corrupted processes, that i have no
power to change, and see the reasons why people retaliate.

I see the stupidity of the west in it's reporting of this issue, and it just shits me right up the
wall. I have heard enough about extremists and their ****ing jihad.

They use our own media to their own gain, and must laugh at how easy it is to get free air
time. ****ing journalist scum need to shut the **** up as do the liberal scum that defend the
right to free speach and open press.

We are adding to their power with each headline, and the journo's with their dripping fangs
await anything to boost their ego's.

My opinion is **** the U.S. and its corrupted leaders, and the Israili's, and the Arabs, and the
Indonesians, and the Saudi's, you are all the ****ing cause of this mayhem.