Thanks for your insightful analysis. :pQuote:
your comments seem to indicate that you are perfectly content with yours.
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Thanks for your insightful analysis. :pQuote:
your comments seem to indicate that you are perfectly content with yours.
I don't beleave in bisexuality. Most people would be lieing if they said they have never, not once, atleast thought about what other various forms of sex would be like. Even if they get sick after a few moments of the thought of it, the point is at some point they have atleast thought about it.Quote:
BISEXUAL and by definition, is not HOMOSEXUAL.
Truth is, if people are sex starved enought they'd just wanna screw like bunnies and get off no matter what. I beleave people are mainly just one way or the other except you know how it is, as long as your getting off on something, right?
And I really don't see how the heck the phrase "I don't care, just screw..." and just plain not giveing a crap anymore counts as some type of mid-way sexuality anyways.
Anyone that reads up on sexuality a lot (one of my hobbies) comes across the works of Kinsey. Sex therapists often refer to the Kinsey Scale of Sexuality.Quote:
Originally posted here by TheSpecialist
Most people would be lieing if they said they have never, not once, atleast thought about what other various forms of sex would be like.
For those interested, the Kinsey Institute has information about the Kinsey Scale, and many other topics of sexuality that they study.
Their FAQ of Sex Statistics is also very interesting.
Very true. Thast seems to be a lost cause to too many people.Quote:
I think the more that people understand each other, the more likely that they are to accept each other.
I need to shoot down some misconceptions about us "narrow-minded" christians as well:
First of all, I disagree with the Catholic church on so many matters it's not even funny. No offense to catholics, but the more time that passes, the less they seem to have it together. I think part of the problem is how subjective in interpretation and simultaneously legalistic they've become. I'm really getting tired of them giving the rest of us a bad name because they're the "popular" church.
So if you feel a certain way, embrace it, don't deny it. You've dodged my comparison though -- I feel like going out and "getting laid" by every hot girl I can score. Does that mean it's ok to do it then? "If it feels good, then do it."Quote:
1. Lie to ourselves and our future heterosexual partner about who we really are. Gay men use to do this a LOT before the 70s. The result? They were able to live with their lies for a while, but eventually either started to cheat on their wives, or started getting divorced. This answer isn't right for the gay man who's made to feel that it's wrong for him to be true to himself about who he really is, and it's wrong for the gay man's partner who's being forced to become an unknowing participant in a relationship based on said lie. Telling people that they should live a lie is just sick.
Agreed. The community should assist in any way it can. If someone's gonna point a finger, then they darn well better be willing to help be part of the solution. There are plenty of ex-gays out there who disagree with your opinion, JP. Are they living a lie, or is the power of free will at its finest?Quote:
Telling people they should live their lives alone because of their sexuality is just sick too.
That would be correct IF I had said that as a generalized statement. However, you don't mean to tell me that's not happening with some of the cases? If you are, then I don't think I'm the one that's sheltered buddy...There are plethora of reasons why this is an issue, and they differ from person to person just like any other issue. I didn't mean that as the fundamental issue, only as a contributing factor in some cases.Quote:
That's not a sad truth. That's a sad load of horse crap. Anyone that thinks that people get into homosexual relationships because they "give up" on the opposite sex is just a sadly misinformed and sheltered individual.
Here's the big point though:
If you're going to talk the theological, then the answer is it's because of the Fall. God didn't create them that way, it's a result of the entropy of our universe. Same answer goes for "Why did God create retarded people?". The upside is that God is glorified and people become stronger by overcoming those "burdens" they are born with. Not by lying to themselves, but by facing it directly, with the support of friends, and not going it alone. I'm sure you don't agree with this viewpoint, and that's fine, I have no quarrel with that, but that's the theological answer to your question.Quote:
How could god CREATE and INTEND someone to be something that he in the bible CONDEMNS?
Because the Catholic Church is built on a very weak and flimsy theological foundation. It comes as no surprise, sadly, that they can't get themselves straight on this issue as well as countless others.Quote:
This gets me back to the Catholic Church. Ever wonder why out of the blue they came out with their updated teaching that BEING gay isn't a sin, it's ENGAGING in homosexual behavior that is?
Careful with "the church" generalization. Some churches, many churches, yes. The rest of us? No. We're equipped and ready to deal with the issue.Quote:
The reason is clear: the church sees this issue coming, and they're trying to cover their asses (pardon the pun).
Kudos on your escaping the JW, DonkeyPunch. They are a borderline cult from where I'm standing. It's a hard group for many to realize they need to break off from and actually do it. It's not right that you lost friends over that. Those of my viewpoint will disagree with you, but friendship is not supposed to be contingent on such things. They've betrayed their faith by abandoning you. "Let he who is sinless cast the first stone." You think I don't have my own sexual sins? You betcha I do, and they're just as bad as anyone else's -- gay or straight. We're supposed to bear with each other, sure, pointing out openly when our viewpoints differ, but sticking together nonetheless. I believe that's the love Jesus preached about.Quote:
I let myself out of JW's in 1996, and I lost some friends because of what they found out.
AngelicKnight, it makes no difference anyway. I abandoned religion altogether. Thanks for the concern though. Lastly, when I let myself out it was clean and easy. I told the elders and in which told all other religions in the process to leave me the hell alone and sell your **** elsewhere.
And you're entitled to that decision. Just don't forget that some of us among the christian community will always be more receptive to what you have to say, whether we agree or not. No one, christian or otherwise, should try to make that decision for you. If you've made up your mind, then it's wrong for us to try to shove our faith down your throat, which is no less a sin on our part.
Or, as Paul would say, "Go in peace."
caveat: Not saying homosexuals are crazy.Quote:
Originally posted here by JP
If homosexuals are BORN that way, it would be hard to argue that god didn't CREATE them that way, and as such, INTENDED there to be homosexuals. How could god CREATE and INTEND someone to be something that he in the bible CONDEMNS?
JP: Your argument is flawed. Apply the same supposition to the mentally ill.
Schizophrenia is a genetic disorder. Therefore, schizophrenics are not afforded the opportunity to CHOOSE to be healthy. Schizophrenics are driven towards violent behavior, yet God condemns violence.
So, applying the same argument, please explain the existence of schizophrenia or "Super-Male" syndrome.
Hmmm, I have to read the Bible again. The last time I looked, the Bible is filled with violence justified by your god. The head of an ass by Samson, the walls of Jericho, the so-called Armageddon, and the "end of the world". I forgot though, god can do whatever he wants.Quote:
yet God condemns violence.
Also, how is Schizophrenia the same as homosexuality?
Or as Ecclesiastes would say "There is a time for peace, and a time for war." The Bible, just like any other history book, shows the horrid, naked truth that sometimes you have to fight.Quote:
Hmmm, I have to read the Bible again. The last time I looked, the Bible is filled with violence justified by your god. The head of an ass by Samson, the walls of Jericho, the so-called Armageddon, and the "end of the world". I forgot though, god can do whatever he wants.
However, I think our binary friend was trying to say that God condemns violence for the sake of violence...That of the offensive type. And yes, God can do whatever He wants, and humanity resents this. Fortunately, He is limited by His nature in that He does not do evil...else we could've been really screwed.
Boy, everyone's throwing out the theology lately. Are you guys just trying to keep me on my toes? ;)
Yeah, I'm struggling with this question too. Let me see if I can translate what he's saying (correct me if I'm wrong...um....You Whose Name Is In Binary):Quote:
Also, how is Schizophrenia the same as homosexuality?
You can be born gay, but choose not to give in to such desires. In contrast, you can be born schitzophrenic, but you cannot choose to be healthy. The piont is that being born gay allows an element of free will to override whereas schitzophrenia does not.
Is that what you're trying to say?
I still don't understand the full scope of the argument/question though, I'm afraid. The answer remains the same as I see it -- God allows those born with elements contrary to His desires for them because of the fallen state of the world. It is the product of free will gone awry, which is an entirely different conversation in and of istelf.
I think, however, you were prodding for a somewhat different answer from our boxing donkey friend?
I should start this discussion on my board. This is very interesting, and yes, despite my beliefs, I am learning somethings from this.
As for god having a double standard, it is nice you acknowledge that. That's what made me give it up in the first place.
Ah, but that's the problem -- Perhaps that conclusion is a little premature?Quote:
As for god having a double standard, it is nice you acknowledge that. That's what made me give it up in the first place.
Let me, alternatively, ask this: Is it really a double standard, or could it be a paradox?
A paradox, as I'm sure you know, occurs when two seemingly contradictory truths actually can be reconciled and coexist. In other words, something appears to be a contradiction, but in fact can be reconciled once delved into a little deeper.
That, I would suggest, is the case here.
I do not see it as a paradox, but as bull. I think this discussion got waaaay off topic. My apologies.
Just looking at the surface my friend, gotta dive deeper. The problem I find with many is that they turn from something when they see something they don't like, without giving the issue a more complex analysis. Such is our human nature.
No worries, we fly way off topic on a regular basis. I've pretty much come to accept that's inevitable with our bunch. ;)
Free will.
We're humen beings we have the right to do as we wish. Without any guidance, life would be all out of wack -- today for instance, those whom have no faith in themselfs nor respect. (Not your body.)
Sorry for the Religous opinion, but 1 + 1 = 2.
My guidance as I choose it to be is not religion. If that is a problem for you, then I am sorry for the non-religious opinion.
Why thank you, I've noticed. What was the point of this post again?
There is no such thing as an "ex-gay", and the churches that host workshops to "convert" homosexuals into heterosexuals are sick in the truest sense of the word.Quote:
Originally posted here by AngelicKnight
There are plenty of ex-gays out there who disagree with your opinion, JP. Are they living a lie, or is the power of free will at its finest?
AngelicKnight, the fact that you would even mention something as ridiculous as these conversion organizations, or that you even believe that they are "real", shows exactly the type of bigot you are. You can yell and scream that you're not all you want, but spreading such falsehoods without knowing, or by ignoring, the facts is by definition bigotry.
Any gay man that "pretends" to now be straight is living a lie, absolutely! And ALL, I repeat ALL of the scientific research backs this up. The only people you'll hear telling you that homosexuals can be "converted" or "cured" are Christians who try to guilt gays into being so ashamed that they deny their true selves, plain and simple!
The American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, AND the World Health Organization ALL say that homosexuality is not a choice, it is not a disease or disorder, and that homosexuals can't be "cured or converted". Instead of treating homosexuals ALL FOUR of these organizations say that the people that really need treated are the HOMOPHOBES in society. To quote one of these organizations:
"The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable." American Psychological Association 1998
I trust that all of these organizations know the science behind homosexuality a lot better than bible thumping Christians do. See, unlike Christians, scientists RESEARCH, EXPERIMENT, and STUDY the facts, and then draw CONCLUSIONS based on these FACTS. They don't simply page through a book that's a few thousand years old and find a quote or two from some schizo that was hearing voices, and repeat it as if it were an undeniable fact, ignoring anything else that may point to the contrary.
Here's an interesting article on the topic should anyone actually want to start learning the TRUTH and the FACTS.
Just the fact these ideas are being thrown at me are moot. I do not ask AngelicKnight to become bi, gay or straight, nor do I tell him the wonders of it because it is immaterial. In this case, what really makes me wonder is he thinks I have not dug deeper into the "paradox" of this god. I was taught all my life to dig deep and probably know more about scripture than I care to know about. The more I dug, the more I read and the more I asked questions about the validity made me want to barf. Oh, and I was damned if I did question any validity or anything else for that matter...
Everybody wants to live forever, live in paradise and be the ones chosen to be in that world. I got tired of pursuing that mirage and decided to live life. The thing is, I cannot say if there is a god, nirvana, a paradise or whatever, so far there has been no evidence of such a place. It has been a pursuit of many cultures of many thousands of years and while it is OK to believe what you want, there is something called "enough". What really bothers me if this god is so loving and caring, why there are such stringent conditions on that love and why so few will "make it" in those pearly gates. The strange thing is, there are so many religious beliefs saying they are right it boggles my mind.
I do not want to be "reformed" or "changed." I have lied to myself long enough that I do not want to pretend I am this reformed person to make another person happy that most likely either does not give a **** about me in the end and secretly does **** during the week and act all holy on holy day. That's another thing that bothered the hell out of me too.
bah
Hay guys the theological thing is all about faith. You either have it or you do not. It has nothing to do with inteligence or lack off.
JP. You make some good arguments with regard to this thread, i am inclined to agree with you on most of what you have said. My proplem with what you have said is to do with curiosity. The Specialist brought up a very valid point with "what would another from of sex be like" or words to that effect. There is also an old clechie, that goes that all men will have a homosexual experiance at least once in there lives.................No, i am secure in my own sexuality, been there done that. Did not like it.
So from my own perspective the x/y chromasome theory is not far of the mark.
Originally found here.Quote:
<Donkey_Punch> naw
* Donkey_Punch is now known as albn
Heh....I knew there was something familiar about the way you were making the hair on the back of my neck stand up. You're a bad boy Jack....
Now...everyone remember the original post...leave religion out of the discussion please.
*shrug*
I have no problems "dealing" in my personal pervasive (as in perversion) habits. I love them.Quote:
You're "normal"....deal with it....
It was a point. The catch all, there is no answer. To know this, is to know god. To know this is to know the cosmos. To know this is to know humanity. Some-how I think we'll get there. Have patience I say. As for modern scientific facts, there are studies that conclude all answers, depending on the puppet master. One says it's a "life style choice" and they parade around those who have achieved non-gayness in rightous allegory. Always they fall back into pergatory and partake in the apple. To the distain of their flock. There are those who claim specific regions of the brain respond to homo-stimuli. No ****, it's a brain - it responds. This is an isolation of some specific brain mapping that heteros don't have. Duh. Map it out and prove inconclusively that a region of the brain stimulates homo-ertotic response and I will probably say hey, that image of a murder mapped a response, am I crazy?
But them what would I know, I masterbate too much, probably. Our social destiny is pleasure. Perhaps that is the answer? We seek our pleasure destination and that is it.
My issue? Tolerance definition and then lack of on both side. ... Stealing culture for personal vanity and the like. Peace.
RoadCloased, what the hell does all the above mean, can you translate to English, please.
Are you telling me i masterbate to much? it is only once a day. Ok maybe twice if my hand looks real horny :)
Alright, I've read a few pages of this and I can't stand to read the rest.
All I've seen is this black and white discussion. What if it's different for everybody. Some people are genetically disposed towards homosexuality, some people get it from environment, some take a bit of both.
Life is not black and white. Life is not clear cut. Humans are not logical.
Me, I've decided to become a Vulcan.
Is this the gene that allows a gay to spot another gay across a crowded bar ? .......... otherwise called Gay Radar 'Gaydar' ?Quote:
This is an isolation of some specific brain mapping that heteros don't have.
Bollox: genetically I can live with, but Environmental Variables ?Quote:
Some people are genetically disposed towards homosexuality, some people get it from environment,
What about the proverbial Royal Navy ?
Men in very close proximity to other men, for months at a time.
Sometimes there has to be a release ...............
But come shore leave, your ass is safe in any port on that day .......
And from the Royal Marines: [the Navy's soldiers]
These loons have 'Naked Bar' as their last night celebration after winning the coveted Green Beret. Order from the training staff [who are also there ] is NAKED BAR .....
10 seconds later the bar / barracks wherever, is full of naked Marines ........
And these guys have an answer to the gay question:
Marines don't like to take showers with men.
Who LIKE taking showers with men.
I probably should say something since me and JP have gone at it before where he said I was a bigot.
I called JP a Fag. Well, he assumed I meant gay. Fag is what some people call a Cigarrette, and some people call those, "Butts".
So I called JP an ass and he assumed I meant Homo.
I've got nothing against gay people, but JP you can be a real ******* sometimes.
I'm Christian, does this mean I HAVE to hate gays? My Uncle is gay, I don't hate him, a few others are too, and I don't hate them. I have gay friends I don't hate. I have Lesbian friends that said if they weren't tuna only they'd totally rape me.
Maybe I am cool like that? I remember JP saying no gay man would ever want me unless it was "One of those bear man queers" or something like that. I guess I'm too ugly for JP t consider anything but a leftover for the breeders?
JP you did misunderstand me. I called you things and talked about you being gay, why? Because you said things about straight people. I only give what you gave. Reversed.
Like when you said straight people can't design web sites. Well, that's why I brought that up when you and me Argued. I'm not a bigot, I'm a human being. Personally I';m not gay or "Bi" but I don't think it's my business what goes in your ass either.
I don't think it's a thing that has to have a "cure", I think it's YOU. You are who you are, no matter what you try to be.
JP, I will not engage in a flame war with you, and I'd much appreciate it if we could continue an intellectual debate, as I have found this to be a fascinating discussion. If we start flaming, the topic's going to die a premature death when there's so much here for us to explore, and that would truly be a shame. Let's not go there. I respect your stance. I do not agree with it, but I do both respect and understand where you're coming from. Yet I'm a bigot?
Flame wars only show a lack of the intellect necessary to debate civilly. Might be fun for the kids, but I have no time or patience for such nonsense. I want to see that genius mind of yours at work here, JP.
Ok, so back to the points at hand:
1) Your science community is to be taken seriously, granted, but only to a point. These organizations are just as politically driven as they are fact-driven, so I do not entirely trust them. Honestly JP, if someone found actual facts to the contrary (hypothetically speaking, mind you), do you really think they'd be expected? Realisticly now. No, the political string-pullers would use their influence, because fact or no fact, it's politcally incorrect. This is perhaps the biggest flaw in the science community.
2) Think about what you're saying. Ex-gays as they're known are morally wrong for their choice to change their lifestyle? This strikes me as ironic, because to me you sound just as preachy as the tv evangelist, and it also seems to me that you're subjecting your values on them. Surely this is not your intention, but is this not the bigotry you so despise?
3) I wholeheartedly agree that homosexuality is NOT an illness. To an extent, there is a choice. To another extent, there is evidence that perhaps there is a genetic tendancy as well. But yes, an illness that does not make.
4) A logic point: Your argument is based upon the foundation that we cannot deny our preprogrammed nature. This, then, would be a pretty universal truth, would it not? Ok, then let's discuss my nature. Let we christians not pretend to have a fake holiness -- by my nature, I want to have sex with every hot girl I see. I feel the urge every time one walks by. And let me tell you, I have sinfully lusted more times than I can possibly count. So, by your logic as stated thus far, I am morally wrong to deny my nature -- therefore, I have commited an immoral act by not trying to have sex with every hot girl I find, for I am denying myself and lying to myself, trying to be something I'm not. Now, does that not sound just a tad silly to you?
5) A respect in difference of belief: You don't want to become an ex-gay, and that's fine. No one should try to make you. But respect those who have decided to go that route. It's their belief, and they're entitled to it, and they deserve not to be belittled by you or anyone else for doing it. They're not lying to themselves, they're making a choice -- a very difficult, painful choice that requires bravery.
Now, are we suffering some miscommunication? You guys seem to respond as if I'm trying to change you. I could hardly be so arrogant. Why was this thread started? To gain insight and understanding of another's belief apart from your own. I'm trying to give you a better understanding of mine -- nothing more, nothing less. This is not bigotry; this is sharing and relating to one another, crossing boundaries to discuss differences. Let us seek to understand each other and our differences. You resent being judged for questioning religion; I would resent being judged for questioning homosexuality. Let us avoid double standards.
Donkeypunch -- You bring up good questions about religion. I would encourage you to start another thread on that if you'd like to open dialogue on the topic. It would make for an interesting discussion no doubt.
JP -- If there's one thing I would like to change about you -- it's your perspective about us. If I can show you that we're not all the same within the realm of religion, I will be quite content. I understand why you think what you do, and I would like to show you that not all of us follow that tragic train of thought that many other very misguided christians follow. Some of us have well thought-out and logical reasons for our faith that has actually resulted from questioning and not from the discouragement of it. There's a lot more to us than an old book. A lot more.
The problem with your linked source is that it's propaganda and nothing more -- for it generalizes. Yes yes, we're all the same, we all have the same agenda, blah blah blah. Come on, this is not openmindness nor even realism. My challenge to you is to open your mind and perspective a little more. Look past the non-thinking idiots to those of us who are trying just as hard as you are to make sense of it all.
Gore, glad to see you joining us, I was wondering if you'd pop in. ;) You always have an interesting take on things, so I was very curious as to what your opinion would be. Regarding what you asked -- How can we as christians hate gays? We would be invalidating our faith to do so! Disagree, yes, but hate? This is just as much nonsense as the idea that there can't be ex-gays.
Our faith teaches us to NEVER hate anyone, and to not judge lest we "take the plank out of [our] own eye". You think I'm any less of a sinner? Far be it from the truth! Sure, I'm not a homosexual, but my sins are just as scarlet. I'm a hypocrite, a screw-up, oftentimes too shallow-minded -- heck, maybe there have been times I've committed bigotry. That's why I'm a christian. I'm a stupid, flawed person and I need forgiveness and help overcoming my own shallow limits. If I didn't continue to screw up daily, I wouldn't need Jesus. I'm just as screwed up as anyone else on this thread, and I will continue to make stupid mistakes as life marches on. Furthermore, I don't have all the answers -- even on this specific topic. A lot of this confounds me, sure. So let us bear with one another as we try to discover the full scope of the truth together.
I have several friends who are gay, both male and female. I am heterosexual. I don't think any of the people I know have chosen to be gay. With all of societies prejudices, why would someone make choice to be ridiculed and prejudiced against? I think that you are what and who you are. There are choices to not live a homosexual lifestyle regardless of wether you are homosexual. That IMO is a sad and unfair thing for someone to feel as though they had to do. It would be great if the world would just accept all types of people for what they are. The reality is that it will never happen. I certainly did not choose to be heterosexual. I never even thought conciously about it. I just liked boys from a very early age. I don't think that gays are better at some things than heterosexuals, nor vice versa. I prefer to live and let live. I don't think it has anything to do with religion. I believe it has to do with accepting yourself for what you are first and foremost and the rest will follow. As for whether or not the way you are raised can make a difference, I don't know how much I believe in that either. I have friends you were raised by homosexual couples and they are straight. That isn't the easiest thing for the children of these couples to deal with either. Kids can be very cruel and having gay parents can make school years very difficult. Most of my gay friends are very tolerant of the ignorance surrounding them, it hasn't changed their sexual orientation at all. They are people, plain and simple.
This is all just my opinion. I have no facts to provide you, no links to support my argument. I am basing my opinion on my own life experiences.
I never expected to comment here, but I feel that I must.
I think that
zaggy
Made a very nice comment.............like live and let live?
I too have had a number of male and female homosexual friends, and have found them marvellous, I do remember this guy insisting that I told my fiancee that he was gay before we shared his house in Greece..............she was confused, so I had to relay the message that it would be my problem if anyones, and she did not care............. :D
From his point it was genetic, and NOT choice.......
Just my few experiences
A point well made...That's really all we can do, once all's said and done.
I avoided this thread simply because the title was illogical.....
No-one can say for sure that it's genetic or environmental....
But there is a _fact_ here... Homosexuals exist....
What makes it too hard to live with that fact.... They aren't harming you, they aren't invading on your life or lifestyle..... So where is the problem?
[Ducking and Weaving]
I don't know...as long as there's no harming/invading, I'm not all that concerned either. I'll tell you my opinion of it if the question arises, but that's about it.
So basically what alot of people are saying here, is that it is fine to break the law as long as you can blame your breaking the law on somone else or on some other thing.
Lets see...excuses for breaking the law..at least some that I have heard over the years where our court systems have let people skate away with little or no penalty.
1. It's Genetic. MY fathere did it ,and his father did it, and I do it..Plus I didn't hurt the sheep.
2. I was physically abused by my father.
3. I was mentally abused by my mother.
4. I was sexually abused by my uncle.
5. Everyone else was rioting too.
6. I needed it worse than they did, and they could afford it.
7. I was sleepwalking when I killed em.
8. It was an instant crime of passion.
9. My client has multiple personalities.
10. I thought that guy in the orange jumpsuit was a deer.
Oddly enough, I don't think that the defense of "God told me to do it." has worked unless it was in conjunction with an insanity plea. Just my observations and recollections.
Well, I'm going to switch sides and play devil's advocate momentarily. :)
The counterpoint would be that your point is irrelevant because homosexuality is far from illegal. Furthermore, they'd probably argue that you are not born with the tendancy to commit these crimes, while you are born homosexual.
So, I presume, that would be the common argument against your points. So that's what I would say if I were them. ;)
True enough Angelic - I should have differentiated between God's law and Man's law, thereby clarifying my position. But then we get back into the debate of "prove there is a God," which will get us no-where quick.
However, I thought that homosexuality was illegal in most states, prior to the 1950's. Don't know that for a fact though.
Overdue... Prove the existence of your god and then, maybe, his/her laws might become applicable.... Until you can _prove_ the existence of your god, or any other, your argument about his/her "laws" are moot.....
Sodomy is illegal in some states, coutries, towns etc. As is adultery, fornication without marriage etc. Old laws. Personally I love a good bit of sodamy once in a while. I bet gays get it MUCH more frequently than us heterosexuals. :D For that I am envious.
Wouldn't be surprised to see a few masterbation laws on books as well. The radical Christian view is to ignore sexuallity and contemplate such as a hell worthy sin. Regardless of sexual orientation.
I think I found somebody that actually mastrubates more than me.Quote:
Wouldn't be surprised to see a few masterbation laws on books as well. The radical Christian view is to ignore sexuallity and contemplate such as a hell worthy sin. Regardless of sexual orientation.
Greetings:
It is not now, nor has it EVER been illegal to be a homosexual in the United States of American. It HAS been illegal to engage in sodomy, however. It was a law passed by radical Christian conservatives that think orgasms are sinful. So be it, it was a stupid law, and it has since been thrown off the books, never to return again (due to a constitutionality ruling by the US Supreme Court).Quote:
Originally posted here by OverdueSpy
Lets see...excuses for breaking the law..at least some that I have heard over the years where our court systems have let people skate away with little or no penalty.
I really hope you're not referring to "laws" that "god" commanded in the Christian bible? His laws were even more messed up than man's laws. Stone your kids to death if they misbehave, stone a woman to death if she has a kid out of marriage (of course nothing is to be done to the man in such a case), killing the first born children of Egyptians because of evils their parents supposedly did (imagine being executed for a crime your parents did?) etc. etc. etc. If that ridiculous old book really is the "divine word" of the "Christian god", then this "Christian god" of yours is really messed up in the head and I'd want nothing to do with the sadistic SOB.Quote:
Originally posted here by OverdueSpy
True enough Angelic - I should have differentiated between God's law and Man's law, thereby clarifying my position.
Even if homosexuality was illegal prior to the 1950's, that would not substatiate your argument as it is far past the 1950's. As I stated before I can't imagine that anyone would choose to put up with the incredible amount of prejudice that comes from being homosexual. I believe you can no more choose your sexual oreintation than you can the parents that gave birth to you. You don't have to like either situation but you can't do a damn thing about it. It is far better to live and learn to enjoy what your life holds than to try and change the things you can't .Quote:
Originally posted here by OverdueSpy
However, I thought that homosexuality was illegal in most states, prior to the 1950's. Don't know that for a fact though.