Id10Ts and the €conomic$ of $ecurity

Hmmm,

With the greatest respect to Desmond Dekker and the Aces:

The tune is "The Israelites"

Get up in the morning, slaving my C:\ sir
So that every mouse can be fed.

Poor me, the Macolyte. Aah

Get up in the morning, slaving my C:\ sir
So that every mouse can be fed.

Poor me, the Macolyte. Aah

My PC with Windoze, they are packed up and leave me.
Gates he said,"I was yours to be seen".

Poor me, the Macolyte. Aah

Jobs is a rip-off, Ballmer is gone.
I don't want to end up like Bonnie and Clyde

Poor me, the Macolyte. Aah

Or something along those lines?



:p :D

I think I'm glad TOTP is being cancelled now ;)

Now "Pan's People" were a different story?

Lust, drool, dribble, letch......................................... :D

EDIT: When it came to clothing, I would say that those young ladies were definately PC rather than Apple ;)

Ok... HT, you want to know the real flaw in Ron O'Brien's (and your's) advice? 90% of the people do not need the power that Mac's provide... So would it make sense to buy an $800 PC and spend $200 (Your prices represented that of geek squads and they are not the only ones that can service PC's ;)) to have someone lock it up and set up automatic updates (hell I don't even charge friends and family) or spend 1500-2000 on a Mac (only real exception to this is the Mac mini but there are comparable PC's for this as well) for an out-of-the-box secure system that is, in the end, relying on security through obscurity in most cases at this present time...

Lets not forget that most of the world is familiar with windows, they would have to relearn everything...


BTW, you've said time and time again that Mac's are not much more expensive then PC's, but only recently has this been the case...

Oh, and let's stop the petty personal attacks please...

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Originally posted here by The Duck
Ok... HT, you want to know the real flaw in Ron O'Brien's (and your's) advice? 90% of the people do not need the power that Mac's provide... So would it make sense to buy an $800 PC and spend $200 (Your prices represented that of geek squads and they are not the only ones that can service PC's ;)) to have someone lock it up and set up automatic updates (hell I don't even charge friends and family) or spend 1500-2000 on a Mac (only real exception to this is the Mac mini but there are comparable PC's for this as well) for an out-of-the-box secure system that is, in the end, relying on security through obscurity in most cases at this present time...

Lets not forget that most of the world is familiar with windows, they would have to relearn everything...


BTW, you've said time and time again that Mac's are not much more expensive then PC's, but only recently has this been the case...

Oh, and let's stop the petty personal attacks please...

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The Mac Mini is just as cheap as any budget PC you buy... I paid 600 CDN for mine... I'd have paid more for the same budget PC at the time... So why not have them go Mac Mini instead...

As for this learning curve that everyone thinks they introduce... we're talking end user... They don't do very much with their PCs... there is no learning curve.. it's still point and click...

As for the personal attacks.. nihil wanted to attack my age... I'll turn it into a full blown attack... I guess I'm kinda like the US... kill a few thousand people and I'll obliterate your nation :) (not really an insult... just refering to the fact that someone had said before that I was more American than I thought)

For me personally, I've always thought Macs were too expensive,
but then I wouldn't buy a Dell either. I'm the guy who goes dumpster diving
for PIIs. For normal consumers, take my sister. She's a photographer.
Her husband, an administrator at a hospital, or community college or something.
They, and two children, now twentysomethings, have always used
Macs. All the tech genes in my family descended on me.

They are not geeks. They are artsy people. For them, the Mac
(pardon the expression) just works. They have never experienced
a security issue. They have no concept of security. Windos certificateed adminzistrators
needz to get out more often and see how those outside the iron curtain live.
:cool:

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The Mac Mini is just as cheap as any budget PC you buy... I paid 600 CDN for mine... I'd have paid more for the same budget PC at the time... So why not have them go Mac Mini instead...

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Perhaps, but for the price of the cheapest mac mini (using Intel core solo) I can get a PC with a pentium D (dual core) for just about the same price and that's just searching on Dell's site...

Anyway, I think sometime down the road... maybe a couple years... apple will go the 'microsoft route' and just start licensing the Mac OS, seeing as how it can now run on PC's and that's all a mac really is now...

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As for the personal attacks.. nihil wanted to attack my age... I'll turn it into a full blown attack... I guess I'm kinda like the US... kill a few thousand people and I'll obliterate your nation (not really an insult... just refering to the fact that someone had said before that I was more American than I thought)

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IMHO most canadians are ;)...

Quote:

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Originally posted here by The Duck
Perhaps, but for the price of the cheapest mac mini (using Intel core solo) I can get a PC with a pentium D (dual core) for just about the same price and that's just searching on Dell's site...

Anyway, I think sometime down the road... maybe a couple years... apple will go the 'microsoft route' and just start licensing the Mac OS, seeing as how it can now run on PC's and that's all a mac really is now...



IMHO most canadians are ;)...

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So I went to the Dell site and dug through... I found a Pentium D (800 series) which I added XP Pro to (equivalent OS) and the reinstall media... it was 803... the Dual Core Mac Mini is 799... that's the same price...
Now the processor may be faster in the Dell... but we're pricing out Dual Core processors right now and time and time again we hear don't buy an intel 800 series... also the mac mini has wireless and a remote... so You seem to have gotten your prices wrong... ;)

Peace,
HT

Bah, I don't see the need to go to XP Pro... If I stay with XP home I can get that for $682 and that's including the reinstall cd's and the dvd burner upgrade... The $682 PC is a better deal then apples $600 mac mini using the core solo and quite cheaper then apples $700 core duo mini...

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and time and time again we hear don't buy an intel 800 series

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I realize that the 900 series was better then the 800 series but you're supposed to just avoid pentium D's all together when compared to AMD's x2's... But I'd rather have a pentium D for 80 bucks more then a core solo...


I understand you were trying to keep everything fair and say that XP pro is equivalent to Mac OS X (at least I think you were), but the average user doesn't need pro :p... Which, in a way reinforces my argument: 90% of the people do not need the power that Mac's provide...


Yeah, I also just realized that both dells you and I mentioned came with monitors, keyboard and mice... the mac mini doesn't come stock with any of those... Whats your argument for that one :p...

Very true,

Most home users would be quite happy with a PIII and Windows 2000. As for "wireless and a remote" those are pure bragging rights and eye candy, you don't need them.

However, this thread is not about "my Apple is better than your PC" it is about whether someone who has already invested a substantial sum in PC equipment and software should be advised to scrap it, and to go and buy the MacIntosh operating system, with a whole new set of applications software.

The obvious economic solution is to harden the Windows system, install comprehensive anti malware solutions and get a "Sandbox HIDS". At least that is a proactive approach, rather than security through obscurity.

Incidentally I certainly wouldn't buy a Dell, as there are far more attractive alternatives over here. They have closed their plant in Ireland and stopped advertising on our TV............they still compete on price in the bulk supply to corporates and institutions, but those customers don't want to upgrade every two years. They have outsourced their helpdesk functions.................

It is a classic case of "concentrating on core business competencies" which is a euphemism for "circle the waggons folks"; and we all know what happens to businesses that do that. ;)

When I think of it, I know of several hundred sites with more than 1,000 Windows PCs yet I cannot think of a single site with 200 or more Apple PCs. So, if people who are not computer literate take the advice and buy an Apple they will not be doing their children any favours.

Remember not everyone has the desire or ability to work in IT, but many have to be able to use computers and applications when they get a job. These computers and applications will be Windows PC based.

If anyone is going to topple Microsoft, it will NOT be Apple. Linux is a far more attractive proposition, as it is not hardware supplier dependent. If OS X or what its then equivalent gets onto the open market, that will be the death of Apple Computers, as their hardware sales will totally collapse, and their antiquated business model requires that revenue.

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I think sometime down the road... maybe a couple years... apple will go the 'microsoft route' and just start licensing the Mac OS, seeing as how it can now run on PC's and that's all a mac really is now...

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Apple did that once before, back in the 90's. Knew an outfit that was using the Umax clones and they were none too happy. The clones had some definite quality issues. I don't see Apple going the licensing route again.

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However, this thread is not about "my Apple is better than your PC" it is about whether someone who has already invested a substantial sum in PC equipment and software should be advised to scrap it, and to go and buy the MacIntosh operating system, with a whole new set of applications software.

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True, but I just found that I can get a dual core dell PC for less money then a core solo mac mini :D... (that's right HT, YOU didn't have your pricing right :p)

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ncidentally I certainly wouldn't buy a Dell

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Me neither, I was just using them as an example...

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If anyone is going to topple Microsoft, it will NOT be Apple. Linux is a far more attractive proposition, as it is not hardware supplier dependent. If OS X or what its then equivalent gets onto the open market, that will be the death of Apple Computers, as their hardware sales will totally collapse, and their antiquated business model requires that revenue.

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OS X is already capable of being on the open market, that's why I'm saying I think Mac will eventually go the microsoft route and start licensing their OS... Mac's move toward Intel was a double edged sword... Yes mac's can now run both windows and mac os X and their applications, but now there's very little keeping Mac OS X off PC's... There are already hacked x86 versions of Mac OS X and from what the reports read, it was EXTREMELY easy to hack and bring it to the PC...

Check this out for more information:
http://www.osx86project.org/

I doubt if there would be enough in the licenced software to sustain Apple. Their current business is very much a hardware and software deal.

Just wait until the Chinese start dumping really cheap PCs into the Western Market, and Microsoft make their announced entrance into the "iPod" and music business.

;)

My Motto:

If it works, upgrade/replace at my own pace. Let me judge my things.

AMC here are as cheap as: $ 24 per year..yeah rite per year and we dont have the per hour concept.

The concept of business here is different. but these thoughts belong to another section..

That way, even explosives are cheaper here...reference to recent mumbai blasts. No joke intended.

amen