AO - Max security for a connected world

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by |3lack|ce

Funny, we're always glad over at the Taz to receive any new tut in any way, shape, or form. Tut threads there don't degenerate into flame wars, regardless of the topic, and are usually expanded upon by both the author and our other members as softwares change, or if methodologies differ. ONE single tutorial written over a year ago has generated an UnGodly amount of responses, asking everything from 'will this work with this hardware' to clarification on the 'how to' process in hardware specific instances. The methods used have been refined to a point where a kindergartener could comprehend it now, and updates come whenever the software changes.

Amazing what a user-run forum can do eh? Uncannily enough, there are no ap's, rep points, or anything that can be assigned to any poster - if someone posts ignorant fluff, his info is quickly corrected by the other members and that user learns.

Incidentally, if the specific tut I'm talking about were posted here, it would've been deleted and the user banned. It involves cracking. Since that user is known to operate on both forums, he'll remain nameless here, and we're bloody glad to have his instruction there.

Now do I support such activities by allowing them to exist and remain in a forum I moderate? Not truly, but as previously stated in this thread I learn the methods of those who would crack my own network, and by doing so strengthen it against that style of attack. Security is a double-edged sword at best, and learning about it comes in many, many forms. To get cliche about it, "Know your enemy."

Nuff said.
|ce

---

I personally don't ban or close threads about that. I think it would be a bit hypocritical to do that. anyone in ANY security profession should know how the other side operates because there is no way you're going to know how to prevent that unless you first understand how it works.

Even people like professional safe crackers have a legitimate use in a business. Safe's are rated by how long it takes to crack them, if you want it tested, to see how safe your safe is, are you going to ask the people who make it? Or have someone who does it REALLY well, try it out and tell you?

Or that show "It takes a Thief".. It's a really good show, and people who do home security most likely know exactly how to break into a house. That doesn't make them a criminal if they do it on their own property the same way me setting up Windows 98 SE and not patching it to break in doesn't make me one.

That's me personally.

lol, well gore's hard at work doing that for me. actually, it stayed up for more than a minute this time, maybe he got tired, heh. Yeah i guess i can give the little guy a break...

Hey Ice, would they frown on such a signature at that tazz zone? if not, i may need to swing by...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by |3lack|ce

Funny, we're always glad over at the Taz to receive any new tut in any way, shape, or form. Tut threads there don't degenerate into flame wars, regardless of the topic, and are usually expanded upon by both the author and our other members as softwares change, or if methodologies differ. ONE single tutorial written over a year ago has generated an UnGodly amount of responses, asking everything from 'will this work with this hardware' to clarification on the 'how to' process in hardware specific instances. The methods used have been refined to a point where a kindergartener could comprehend it now, and updates come whenever the software changes.

Amazing what a user-run forum can do eh? Uncannily enough, there are no ap's, rep points, or anything that can be assigned to any poster - if someone posts ignorant fluff, his info is quickly corrected by the other members and that user learns.

Incidentally, if the specific tut I'm talking about were posted here, it would've been deleted and the user banned. It involves cracking. Since that user is known to operate on both forums, he'll remain nameless here, and we're bloody glad to have his instruction there.

Now do I support such activities by allowing them to exist and remain in a forum I moderate? Not truly, but as previously stated in this thread I learn the methods of those who would crack my own network, and by doing so strengthen it against that style of attack. Security is a double-edged sword at best, and learning about it comes in many, many forms. To get cliche about it, "Know your enemy."

Nuff said.
|ce

---

That's fine for some small forum that you run. You don't have the same liability issues that we do. It's just a fact of life. I understand the double-edged sword involved in security, but while you're educating people on how to secure their site, you're also telling those who would seek to compromise it, how to do it. Which of those two do you think is more likely to see it?

And back off topic we go again...We do have a PM system in place. I know we do, because I've sent you how many now trying to resolve this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JPnyc

That's fine for some small forum that you run. You don't have the same liability issues that we do. It's just a fact of life. I understand the double-edged sword involved in security, but while you're educating people on how to secure their site, you're also telling those who would seek to compromise it, how to do it. Which of those two do you think is more likely to see it?

---

I have mixed feelings about that. Anyone who wants to do that can easily find another site to teach them, so in that respect you'd be somewhat covered already as there are countless sites to teach you how to do this sort of thing and just say "this is for information / research purposes only we aren't responsible for what you do with this information and it's illegal to do this to things you don't own" and that usually covers the butt.

On the other end I also understand that problem with who exactly sees it.

OK...I'm going to interject here...

obviously, xiphias360 gore has crawled under your skin and you can't shake him off...gore does have that affect sometimes...but your constant baiting is ruining what could be a very useful thread...

go start a hate gore thread and stay out of this one if you don't have something valuable to contribute. ;)

Ah, but Gore, here's the rub. Your individual actions are not necessarily the actions of other moderators, and you bloody well know it. I knew when you took the mod spot you were known to hit both sides of that line occasionally, and I was glad to see it getting into the mods group. There *are* other moderators who'll nuke a thread and a user in a freakin heartbeat over the mere mention of the word 'hack' or 'crack' or 'phreak', or any implication thereof.

JPNyc: What you seem to be asking is 'why did you stay' to each of us oldtimers - to help your editors provide for the forum, I'll give you the following: I came here and stuck around because there was a time lag of about 2 minutes from an original post before I had a viable solution to whatever problem I had. I look at the main forum index today and see topics 4 days old *Still* on the front page. Time was when any new topic had a front page (most active) life of about 5 minutes if it weren't worthy of much note, or quickly resolved. I'd suggest finding a nice core-group of users to answer questions - nihil is usually on top of it, although his ego runs off with him on occasion, but you need others. MsMittens was a wonderful one to get with - and her news posts were quite nicely accepted as well. Y'all ran off TigerShark for whatever reason I don't know, but I most certainly welcomed any instruction he deemed to give in his posts - that guy should've been a mod. But I digress - back to the point, plain and simple. I stayed because I got correct answers in a very rapid fashion. Others benefitted from my stay because I did my best to provide correct answers as rapidly as I could. At one time this was my browser homepage, because I enjoyed it so much. I lost it after the big blowup with spidey back in the day - read about it in addicts a couple years ago now, I don't remember any details other than it drove me away, although I'm still very much of the opinion that he has absolutely no business modding here.

And there ya have it.
|ce

[edit to Xip] Not that I've seen yet - we usually handle personal issues by pm's though - but most of our membership gets along quite well too, with a very few exceptions. We've got a "Slap Me Silly" forum as well, which is by request to join, limited to *one* active thread at a time, and is wonderful for flaming/venting.[/edit]

J to tha P can post where he wants, now back in line, you!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gore

I have mixed feelings about that. Anyone who wants to do that can easily find another site to teach them, so in that respect you'd be somewhat covered already as there are countless sites to teach you how to do this sort of thing and just say "this is for information / research purposes only we aren't responsible for what you do with this information and it's illegal to do this to things you don't own" and that usually covers the butt.

On the other end I also understand that problem with who exactly sees it.

---

My point was not that the information is not available out there, but rather who can and can't afford to join that group who makes it available. There's a very fine line to be danced around here, and unfortunately, unlike small personally owned forums, we have to tiptoe constantly around it. We simply don't have a choice.

Quote:

---

obviously, xiphias360 gore has crawled under your skin and you can't shake him off

---

i think you got that backwards, wanna see my inbox?? Oh wait, you can't. He said i'd be banned if i posted PMs, lol...

Enough! I have asked Gore to let it drop and I'm asking you the same please. We have a lot more important things to discuss and personal battles are getting in the way.

By the way JPNyc, did you know that at one time the real Captain Crunch was an active (and posting) member here? I think Mitnick himself even visited from time to time although he didn't post very frequently.

Security people of today were the hackers, crackers, and phreaks of yesterday. This trend will quite likely continue.

I am not espousing the "hackers are evil and must die" viewpoint here. I'm just pointing out the realities of the real world. I know what you're saying is true. I don't even question it for a second. I'm simply pointing out there are overriding factors that we are not in a position to ignore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by |3lack|ce

Ah, but Gore, here's the rub. Your individual actions are not necessarily the actions of other moderators, and you bloody well know it. I knew when you took the mod spot you were known to hit both sides of that line occasionally, and I was glad to see it getting into the mods group. There *are* other moderators who'll nuke a thread and a user in a freakin heartbeat over the mere mention of the word 'hack' or 'crack' or 'phreak', or any implication thereof.

---

I'll agree with you, I think it's because of the anti-cracking attitude that got popular and some members were flat out mad if someone asked anything about cracking. The flaming was fun for a bit, but you're right in that respect, some do get ANSI when a thread pops up about breaking something.

And yea, I really can't speak for everyone, just me personally.

As said, it's a very thin line to be walking. On one end, you have people who'd love to hear about it, and on the other, you have people thinking "Oh **** what if some moron sees this and uses it against a hugue company who wants to put us in court over it because they said they learned how to do it here..."..

So it is a pretty thin line.

By the way, for the record, I will not support closing any thread for the mere mention of certain words. Giving someone a step-by-step instructions on how to hack something, that's a little different. It's really all in how it's presented.

I know that's extremely pedantic but that's the way the law is, and we're subject to it. If it's presented as a way to block a certain type of attack, then the attack details themselves must be included.

@J to tha P: fair enough. hopefully the posthumpers read that, JP said it once, no need for a billion little echos trying to get their small voices heard.

@Ice: that's a real shame. I originally heard about this site through word of mouth so that shows how great it once was. Today I wouldn't recommend this site to a noob. It desperately needs a breath of fresh air...

Ah, yes, the lawsuit angle.

Query your legal department once again regarding this potentiality. A simple disclaimer should be enough to protect you against suits brought against JupM over information found in these forums. Me, I'd post it prominently on the front page, or to each member at their initial signup.

To wit:

The information contained on this site is posted at the discretion of the users and is not censored. What you do with this information may or may not be illegal in your city, state, or country, and could get you arrested, jailed, or sued in civil court. JupMedia and its affiliates will not be held liable for any damages which may be caused by what a user does with the information they find here. By accepting this membership you release JupMedia and its affiliates from and accept full responsibility for your own actions regarding any and all information contained herein.

Your legal assistants can most likely word it better, I'm going off one that Mrs|ce wrote for a different client of hers and changing it somewhat to adapt to this situation. The basic point of that whole blurb above was to force responsibility back onto the membership - and release Jup from any liability, In essence, making you 'lawsuit proof' regarding these forums. If they don't agree to it, they don't get membership here and can't see anything posted.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. This advice was given freely by me to you so that you might contact a REAL attorney and get it done correctly. Anything you do with what I've said is at your own risk!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xiphias360

@J to tha P: fair enough. hopefully the posthumpers read that, JP said it once, no need for a billion little echos trying to get their small voices heard.

@Ice: that's a real shame. I originally heard about this site through word of mouth so that shows how great it once was. Today I wouldn't recommend this site to a noob. It desperately needs a breath of fresh air...

---

Thank you. I really am going to make an effort to fix what I can. For the first year and a half of my time in this job, I was more or less told to leave this forum alone. But it was inching down anyway, so I figured there was nothing to lose in getting involved. I'm going to try to make it a positive involvement, but I need help from you guys as well.

So we'll ease up on the hair trigger thread closings. That's the kind of thing that falls under my jurisdiction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by |3lack|ce

Ah, yes, the lawsuit angle.

Query your legal department once again regarding this potentiality. A simple disclaimer should be enough to protect you against suits brought against JupM over information found in these forums. Me, I'd post it prominently on the front page, or to each member at their initial signup.

To wit:

The information contained on this site is posted at the discretion of the users and is not censored. What you do with this information may or may not be illegal in your city, state, or country, and could get you arrested, jailed, or sued in civil court. JupMedia and its affiliates will not be held liable for any damages which may be caused by what a user does with the information they find here. By accepting this membership you release JupMedia and its affiliates from and accept full responsibility for your own actions regarding any and all information contained herein.

Your legal assistants can most likely word it better, I'm going off one that Mrs|ce wrote for a different client of hers and changing it somewhat to adapt to this situation. The basic point of that whole blurb above was to force responsibility back onto the membership - and release Jup from any liability, In essence, making you 'lawsuit proof' regarding these forums. If they don't agree to it, they don't get membership here and can't see anything posted.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. This advice was given freely by me to you so that you might contact a REAL attorney and get it done correctly. Anything you do with what I've said is at your own risk!

---

it's not merely the notion of being sued, we can't be known as a "hacking site". Like I keep saying, I realize security and hacking are two different sides of the same fence, and often times it's impossible to tell which side a given piece of information falls on, but we're still obligated to try to see they fall on the security side most of the time.

Xip, there were folks who were saying AO was dying back when I first joined. They got laughed at. It really didn't start into very serious decline until a few months before the update, and I firmly believe that as long as JPNyc and Intmon keep open minds (and ears) about it, the site as a whole is quite salvagable.

JPNyc: I'd also like to see more download links to newer and bigger security tools. I realize that the "Standard 4" are about all anyone needs, but there *are* other packages out there to do things like system optimization, registry cleaning, etc. In this new age of *cough*itsucks*cough*Vista, folks are going that direction, others like me are staying with XP until it drops completely, and still others are Linux guys. We need utilities that cover all of the above, with clear, easy to understand, and quite concise documentation on each. That oughtta give your guys something to do for awhile eh? :D

If you want AO to be the powerhouse it once was, you gotta flow with the changes - this means advertising elsewhere, providing updates and information that *nobody* has anywhere else (yet) and staying on top of all of the above. It means getting the damned popup ads off your site, (including the one that keeps putting fastclick on my machine - I know it's benign, but it still eats my resources and pisses me off). Get a core membership going and make bloody well sure you keep them happy, for they'll be your life blood and if they leave you're fuxored. I am of the firm belief that this is what caused the tailspin you're now in, and it CAN be remedied.

One thing nobody's mentioned here yet: Diversity.

What if Antionline added in a few forums about gaming, medicine, and other topics unrelated to the security world?

BTW I'm looking for employment if you're hiring ;) I ain't a techie by any means of the word, but I know business and have a pretty sharp legal mind as well. I charge as much as you'll pay me and I won't relocate or punch a time clock unless you're dead serious with any offer and it includes moving expenses.

okay valid points. I'm attempting to address some of them right now, particularly regarding the core membership. We have pop-up ads? I block all third-party cookies personally and first party are set to prompt. I thought the only pop up we had was an occasional market survey which, once closed, shouldn't reappear.

No popups from what i've seen. Maybe it's just malware on their side...

Meh. Go advanced instead of 'post quick' - made me type this all over again:

That one popup was enough to make me block 'em here forever. It's a minor annoyance yes, but an annoyance nonetheless, and one that will drive off touchy users. I'd strongly suggest ditching it. Malware, I'm seeing fastclick and doubleclick loading quite a bit. Granted this site doesn't have as much as other ad run sites like say..neopets or something, but being a Security site, it should have ZERO. My offered solution to that is to screen any and all advertisements before allowing them onto the site, period. Also double check existing ads, as well as the site itself to make sure that no malware is being distributed to the users, even benign ones.

Remember, you're representing yourself as Maximum Security for a Connected World. That means this site should be 100% malware free forever, bar none, period, even on download links you offer and advertisements that keep you afloat.

On the warm, fuzzy side - thanks for listening. The fact that you care enough to answer personally and address issues goes a very long way with me. I'll post more here because of it, most especially if I see resulting change from user suggestions. I do realize and keep in mind that you cannot please everyone all the time, but do your best ;)

BTW, with all the legal hurdles you must jump through, what's up with the sig? If i ever kill someone i'm telling them JP told me to do it... ;)

You win that one! ;)

*cackle* touche.

I seriously considered changing my sig to "JPnyc made me do it."

*slaps forehead* ;)

Quote:

---

"this is for information / research purposes only we aren't responsible for what you do with this information and it's illegal to do this to things you don't own"

---

I doubt if any of those disclaimers would work these days. I have seen far too many strange court decisions recently to have any confidence in the legal systems either in the US or EU when it comes to IT issues.

Legislation is drafted by people who don't understand IT, and enforced by people who don't understand IT.

The only way I have seen, that I would be reasonably confident in, is by publishing proof of concept, code snippets, or code that won't work unless you correct it first.

That would force any malicious person to actually "load the weapon" before using it. In fact they would have to deliberately modify it, which is a massively more defensible position for the original publisher.

You also have to realise that this is a commercial site................it relies on advertising, and many advertisers would not be impressed by a site that published skiddie manuals? Disclaimers are things that advertisers use.......... they sure as hell don't read them.

As JPnyc has pointed out, it isn't what you say as much as how you say it.

Being "in the public domain" isn't much of a defence either.......... I certainly wouldn't post the recipe for tabon or sarin on a UK or US website :shocked:

As an addendum, I would like to commend Dino for this thread and the one that spawned it. You can't steal him though, he's a co-admin on our site. Me, I'm just a mod - to diffuse any misconceptions that might've arisen earlier. Keep in mind though that it's all user-run there, by committee - any legitimate suggestions are deliberated and acted upon in one way, shape, or form...but this isn't about TAZ, it's about AO.

Let's see...some of the other good stuff that was springing up just as I departed... The monthly 'AO' interview thingy - where senior members filled out a 'get to know me' interview and it was all posted up nice and proper by the author. Mentions of us on the e-zines were nice too - I still remember when a certain freeware virii scanner sent out a malicious patch and crashed systems and Norton's Ghost saved my butt, and it got mentioned. It was just a little thing, but still meant a lot to see myself in print elsewhere.

There was a time when we saw day zero viruses reported here before Symantec even picked them up. I think I've mentioned before that I'd like to see this recur here. In fact, I'd like to see that expanded into things like 'how does this malware effect your system and why do these companies use it,' 'how to defeat this malware or that malware and prevent it from ever returning onto your system,' 'how to catch and defeat a zero day virus before it infects you or others,' etc. There's a TON of how to tuts that could be put up out there that just...aren't. Perhaps some of our more techwise people might write them? Perhaps a system of rewards might be in order (time was I'd kill for an AO coffee cup, and I can remember when they were being given away, just very rarely).

Dino's BOFH stories always rocked, as did Gore's, and humor abounded. We were always current on the goings on of cyberspace - including articles on things ranging from Gates' house being hacked to the latest in Hardware updates to the newest unix/linux adaptations. Gore was even doing tuts on how to run his brand of /ux - but that seems to have died off as well. Me, I'm an Ubuntu fan now...but I've not seen it touched on a whole lot here.

[edit - nihil posted while I was typing]Ah yes, but I distinctly remember downloading plans on how to build a thermonuclear device back in my college days - proving it *was* out there and *was* obtainable. I don't have the testicular fortitude to try that same search from my home IP of course, so I can neither confirm nor deny they exist today. I do, however, get your's and JPNyc's points[/edit]

Probably true, but even if it isn't, as I stated there's more to it than just being sued. We're a business, we can't be seen as a hacking site. I want to make this forum as smoking as you guys do, trust me. But I have certain restrictions that have to be worked within, that's all. I'll do my best to see they're not applied too stringently, if you guys will meet me halfway.

no fair deleting posts Nihil, let's leave all this up for the world to see - nothing bad will come of it, only good.

What posts got deleted?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by |3lack|ce

Meh. Go advanced instead of 'post quick' - made me type this all over again:

That one popup was enough to make me block 'em here forever. It's a minor annoyance yes, but an annoyance nonetheless, and one that will drive off touchy users. I'd strongly suggest ditching it. Malware, I'm seeing fastclick and doubleclick loading quite a bit. Granted this site doesn't have as much as other ad run sites like say..neopets or something, but being a Security site, it should have ZERO. My offered solution to that is to screen any and all advertisements before allowing them onto the site, period. Also double check existing ads, as well as the site itself to make sure that no malware is being distributed to the users, even benign ones.

Remember, you're representing yourself as Maximum Security for a Connected World. That means this site should be 100% malware free forever, bar none, period, even on download links you offer and advertisements that keep you afloat.

On the warm, fuzzy side - thanks for listening. The fact that you care enough to answer personally and address issues goes a very long way with me. I'll post more here because of it, most especially if I see resulting change from user suggestions. I do realize and keep in mind that you cannot please everyone all the time, but do your best ;)

---

thanks, I'm trying and will continue to. I don't like pop-ups either, but the sad fact is I don't carry all that much weight where such decisions are concerned.

Thought I'd seen a nihil post right above yours but after my prev disappear. I could be mistaken, I'm on flu meds...

Understood your efforts to halt something that will make the company money will be difficult at best, but worth the fight if you justify it by saying 'would you rather lose your membership, then wind up losing all your advertising dollars'? I still picture in my mind the nice fat offer JP(original) got for the site from JupMedia and how Jup thought it was a worthwhile investment. It's my sincerest hope they've made a truckload of money off the site, and that they will continue to do so, but not at the expense of the members which are the site's lifeblood.

My own big thing of late is game reviews. I'm wanting to set myself up writing articles on various gaming packages for major sites. I've had one taker so far, but I wound up buying the software at my own expense (which must be stopped since I'm giving them free advertising with a review), wound up in a war with their tech support over that game, getting a replacement after 6 months of no fix, and finally reviewing the new software instead. Heck of a start eh? Perhaps as I do these reviews I'll mirror them across both forums - it can't hurt me given the popularity of each, most definitely can't hurt the companies that will ask me to do their reviews, and is good for both forums in that most-necessary item that is site content.

Most of my tutorials on installations I just stopped doing after the 300th message of "You're an idiot, and this is stupid, anyone can install all of that without a problem so you're threads are pointless".

the BOFH thing I did had about the same reaction in private as opposed to people in public who seemed to like it. I deleted the messages in my inbox so I don't recall who said all of it, but it was tiring to go through that every month and delete or respond with "what didn't you like about it?" and not ever get a reply.

If you really want, I'll do it again, for both tutorials and Bastard stories I wrote.

Heh. Gore, 'tis a thankless job at best you undertake. Always remember that for each person who nukes your creativity, there's Ten out there who silently appreciate what you did. Having found myself in that very same most tenuous of positions in the past, I can honestly say that being unpopular and getting nuked on all the time sucks. The best thing I could say when all was said and done was 'I persevered, I did my best, and left my mark there because of it.' Remember the satisfaction you derive from doing a job 'gratis' is the fact you did it, and must be derived from one's own self, not from others. If you're looking for a pat on the back, you're in the wrong place..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by |3lack|ce

Thought I'd seen a nihil post right above yours but after my prev disappear. I could be mistaken, I'm on flu meds...

Understood your efforts to halt something that will make the company money will be difficult at best, but worth the fight if you justify it by saying 'would you rather lose your membership, then wind up losing all your advertising dollars'? I still picture in my mind the nice fat offer JP(original) got for the site from JupMedia and how Jup thought it was a worthwhile investment. It's my sincerest hope they've made a truckload of money off the site, and that they will continue to do so, but not at the expense of the members which are the site's lifeblood.

My own big thing of late is game reviews. I'm wanting to set myself up writing articles on various gaming packages for major sites. I've had one taker so far, but I wound up buying the software at my own expense (which must be stopped since I'm giving them free advertising with a review), wound up in a war with their tech support over that game, getting a replacement after 6 months of no fix, and finally reviewing the new software instead. Heck of a start eh? Perhaps as I do these reviews I'll mirror them across both forums - it can't hurt me given the popularity of each, most definitely can't hurt the companies that will ask me to do their reviews, and is good for both forums in that most-necessary item that is site content.

---

I admit to feeling a certain amount of futility where fighting over advertisements is concerned. I understand they pay my salary, but I'm also the member of the company who has his finger on the pulse of the users to the greatest degree. I interact with them every day, pretty much all day, seven days a week. So based on that, I feel like I know what the users will and will not tolerate, better than anybody else in the company. I do what I can.

*cackle* /me points up to his previous post and addresses it to JPNyc as well.

Even paid, sometimes it's like ramming your head into a brick wall. This insight is quite invaluable to the membership though - it helps to understand why things don't happen quite the way we want them to sometimes. Don't go to the well too often on it though please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by |3lack|ce

Heh. Gore, 'tis a thankless job at best you undertake. Always remember that for each person who nukes your creativity, there's Ten out there who silently appreciate what you did. Having found myself in that very same most tenuous of positions in the past, I can honestly say that being unpopular and getting nuked on all the time sucks. The best thing I could say when all was said and done was 'I persevered, I did my best, and left my mark there because of it.' Remember the satisfaction you derive from doing a job 'gratis' is the fact you did it, and must be derived from one's own self, not from others. If you're looking for a pat on the back, you're in the wrong place..

---

I knew that ;) I really should do some more, which I probably will, I've been thinking about doing one for Solaris like I was saying because it's kind of neat and not everyone has that.

And the new FreeBSD should be out soon, so it may be cool to do one on that. Or maybe rebuilding the whole thing from source could be an idea. I mean it's documented but the docs don't always make it work right so it may be another idea.

And I've got a good 3 years of pent up aggression I could work out electronically. So the Bastard admin from Michigan may rise from the dead again to feed on the lusers once again...lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by |3lack|ce

*cackle* /me points up to his previous post and addresses it to JPNyc as well.

Even paid, sometimes it's like ramming your head into a brick wall. This insight is quite invaluable to the membership though - it helps to understand why things don't happen quite the way we want them to sometimes. Don't go to the well too often on it though please.

---

promise, I only will when I find myself tempted to pull out the .3006 and climb a tower:D