How long until Knowledge is illegal?

well mankan,u must not know anything about america at all .yes we do have it better than most country's,and better than most evils.i've seen with my own 2 eyes people being arrested 4 speaking their mind.if u want an example ill give u 1 ,i had a friend who was going to the store 4 a pack of cigs,he was stopped and pestered by cops ,and he told them he didnt feel like talking to them [which is in our rights to talk to anyone or not to talk] and he was arrested 4 resisting arrest,and u ask WHATS THE FUSS and as far as guns go, i personaly dont like them,and think they should be illegal.i dont know about sweden or where ever u are from ,but here in the us u get shot 4 wearing wrong colors,or being black ,white or whatever u are .WITHER U REALIZE IT OR NOT WE AMERICANS ARE SLAVES OF OUR GOVERMENT,like i said we will have tracking chips in our wrists ,and leashes in our asses.what really scares me that people like u are either too ignorant,too scared ,or too naive to open their eyes and see the truth 4 them selfs.and as far as justice goes here its JUST US,cause it only applys to the aveage joe,not them,they change our laws 4 their advantage.DID U KNOW HERE U CAN BE ARRESTED 4 SPITING ON THE SIDEWALK?IF A COP WANTS TO BE AN ASS HE CAN CHARGE U 4 LITTERING ,JUST 4 SPITTING ON THE SIDE WALK.WE GIVE THEM POWER ,AND NOW THEY HAVE SO MUCH POWER,WE NO LONGER HAVE A VOIC
E,IT FALL ON DEFF EARS ACCESSOVERIDE

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Originally posted here by Mankan
I mean, honestly, why would anyone like to monitor a site like 2600? It's not like "they" would put a logger on the server and then trace every IP to their respective ISPs and match them against the ISPs uptime logs for every user.

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Ummm, either you're being sarcastic or you've somehow not heard of things like Carnivore or Echelon. Put simply, personal freedoms are going to get fewer and further between and the difference between a crime and "free thought" is going to get a little more blurred as time goes on...

Many books seem to show this... Ayn Rand's "Anthem" is one of the more famous reads I can think of on the subject (a good hour or three read, tops -- pretty amazing story, too); Rush's album 2112 is a pretty good "synopsis," too (and only like 30 minutes worth, if you're in to it).

Politicians pass things in the name of freedoms or safety when it's really in the name of control and money.

Gun control: how many hard criminals own "legal" guns in the first place? Making it illegal or difficult to own a gun just takes that constitutional freedom from legimate people, overall.

Legalization of Drugs: How much crime/black market is there because of these alone? (commiting a crime on/with them should still be crime, much like drunk driving, mind you) Legalize drugs and the government could profit from the taxes, have a list of everyone using them, and kill a lot of the crimes outright...

Speed Limits: want to control a speed and keep people safe, money isn't the way to do it; far too many have way-too-much disposable income. Want to reduce highway speeds? Put up penalty boxes and have people spend isolated, non-productive time inside a little box for X hours for every mile an hour they're caught over the limit - your time's up, the box pops open and you can go. You'll see the average speed limit drop like mad, I'd bet.

Gas powered cars versus electric: we've long had the technology to make efficient automobiles that are either gas/electrical hybrids or fully electrical... what's stopped it? The oil companies and the politicians they pay off... we're /finally/ starting to see the hybrids come out as it's apparent that by not doing so, we can be in for a reaming from places like the middle east (though I think that's a bunch of hogwash, too).


I seem to subscribe to the HHGTTG (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) theory of politics, I think... politician's are just figure heads designed to sway people's attention from the REAL problems/issues in the world. Most of them are incompetent yet somewhat intelligent and charismatic figures that people can listen to and "understand" - most of the time campaiging seems to be spent mud-slinging at their candidate(s) rather than discussing real issues, etc. And, as we've proven in the U.S., even a fairly well-known billionaire with LOTS of disposable income can't get a word in edgewise in "The Big Boys Camp" - how's the average citizen supposed to do it?

And just look how many Presidents manage anything productive during their first "hundred days" in office... a time when they supposively have pretty much "carte blanche" to do whatever they said in their campaign promises, etc.

Frankly, I think it's all pretty entertaining, yet somewhat sad...


Ok, well, I've said enough (probably too much) - I'll shuttup now.

Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
War is Peace
2 + 2 = 5

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Originally posted here by draziw


Ummm, either you're being sarcastic or you've somehow not heard of things like Carnivore or Echelon. Put simply, personal freedoms are going to get fewer and further between and the difference between a crime and "free thought" is going to get a little more blurred as time goes on...

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Oh please... Echelon monitors internet traffic and to what extent is not know. It doesn't trace visitors on sites like 2600. If it did, you would've heard of it by now from John Doe down at your local ISP. I for one belive that Echelon is exaggerated in absurdum. I promise you that there is not a DoD official in the world that gives a rats ass if you read phrack or not.

Yes I do belive in civil liberties and yes I belive in personal freedom. But paranoia and conspiracy theories tends to get the best of peple and I think it's sad when bright young people goes on and on about Tempest, Echelon, Carnivore and the moon landing (or the non existance thereof). Without the slightest idea of what they're talking about. It's like the web hype back in -97. Buzzwords all over.

I'm just wondering why common sence gets thrown out the window in every discussion on freedom of speech. I also find it hilarious that I actually got a reddie because I spoke my mind. In a disussion closely related to freedom of speech?

I understand what you're saying and to a certain extent I agree. I'm still, however, of the opinion that people are so anti government because it is beeing thought of as cool.

Thanks,

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well mankan,u must not know anything about america at all .yes we do have it better than most country's,and better than most evils.i've seen with my own 2 eyes people being arrested 4 speaking their mind.if u want an example ill give u 1 ,i had a friend who was going to the store 4 a pack of cigs,he was stopped and pestered by cops ,and he told them he didnt feel like talking to them [which is in our rights to talk to anyone or not to talk] and he was arrested 4 resisting arrest,and u ask

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I hear you. Cops can be dicks but so can store clerks, waitors and baby brothers. You don't know why the cops acted like this. Might it have been because your friend has a previous history with the police? Might he have looked like a suspect they wanted for questioning? Might he have been underaged and drunk or whatever?

What you're doing here is rasism. "I have a friend that was harassed by cops so cops are dicks".
Change "cops" to "black people", "jews" or whatever and look at what you're saying. There is no logic in it and both you and I know that there are more good than bad cops around.

If there is something wrong with your society, why don't you start changeing it. A good start might be keeping your personal body fluids of the tax funded streets. ;)

Cheers,

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I understand what you're saying and to a certain extent I agree. I'm still, however, of the opinion that people are so anti government because it is beeing thought of as cool.

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being an anti-govt has nothing to do with being cool. the people who are actually speaking out against the govt and its laws are there protesting because their freedoms are being taken away. people are not there to show how cool they are by being a bad ass rebel.

at least these people are aware of what is happening around them. turn your tv off and try having some two way communication.

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Originally posted here by blackh0le


being an anti-govt has nothing to do with being cool. the people who are actually speaking out against the govt and its laws are there protesting because their freedoms are being taken away. people are not there to show how cool they are by being a bad ass rebel.

at least these people are aware of what is happening around them. turn your tv off and try having some two way communication.

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I'm very well aware that it isn't cool. I'm saying I belive it percieved as coolness by alot of the people engaging in these kinds of statements.
I refuse to belive that your common fifteen year old computer whiz kid has enough insight, information or knowledge to critisize the government. These are the people I oppsed in the first place if you cared to read the whole thread.

Show me one author, journalist, philosopher or person over thirty that have said anything nearly as unthoughtful as what have been said in this thread.

As for turning my TV off there is not much to be said. I've been politicly involved the last five years for sweden's next largest party and I belive one of my biggest arguments in this thread is that people should stop bitching and get into politics if they want to change something.

Besides, I belive this thread to be a two way communication channel...


Edited: I just read my post and realized it made absolutley no sence whatsoever. Sorry 'bout that.

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Originally posted here by Mankan


Oh please... Echelon monitors internet traffic and to what extent is not know. It doesn't trace visitors on sites like 2600. If it did, you would've heard of it by now from John Doe down at your local ISP. I for one belive that Echelon is exaggerated in absurdum. I promise you that there is not a DoD official in the world that gives a rats ass if you read phrack or not.

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Well, first of all, I never said "don't go read 2600" because it's being monitored - personally, I think a lot of the stuff out there is a joke and written by c00l d00ds for no more purpose than hearing themselves speak. Ok, perhaps I'm being a little biased there - main point being is that I agree: most of the DoD probably doesn't give a sh*t about you reading something like that, but that's not to say they wouldn't record the fact that you "went" there. I will say, from the limited about of work I've actually done with agencies like that, there are a few things that I know they're looking for... and I'm sure there's a bit more that I don't know about, simply because I don't have a need to know or a clearance high enough or whatever random reason.

Yeah, there's a bit of speculation about what Echelon does... and I can say that, just from the stuff I've seen that I'm "allowed" to see, it's far more frightening and powerful than people might suspect. Kind of reminds me of the old declasified satellite photos published many, many years ago (yes, we're talking pre-70s or even much earlier) - a photo of the parking lot at the pentagon, where you can basically tell the makes of the cars...

I'll also remind you that this same government has a habit of /not/ disclosing anything that they able to "see" or do until such a time as it becomes very obvious that there are better technologies out there.

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[...]

I'm just wondering why common sence gets thrown out the window in every discussion on freedom of speech. I also find it hilarious that I actually got a reddie because I spoke my mind. In a disussion closely related to freedom of speech?

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Common sense tells me, personally, that the government wouldn't say sh*t or put their cards on the table until someone has some sort of irrefuteable proof of their abilities or similiar. I just find it rather "funny" that there are plenty of "big" crimes that the government seems unable to solve but, as soon as you piss them off, they're suddenly able to take a paint chip out of a mass of rubble, match it to a rented truck, and suddenly go and pull this guy out of the backwoods to prosecute him for a crime against the government.

And, well, I wish more people would get out and "speak their minds," myself, and engage in more thought-provoking discussions overall (not anything pointed here, persay - just saying "in general"). No reason to really give you a reddie, IMO (t'wasn't me).

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[...]

I understand what you're saying and to a certain extent I agree. I'm still, however, of the opinion that people are so anti government because it is beeing thought of as cool.

Thanks,

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Being anti-government isn't "cool," really. To a certain extent, it kinda "frightens" me actually (both literally and figuratively). And, if you have to fear a governmental agency (in any country), it's probably a good sign that something is wrong. Yeah, I know... fear is my choice, not something I'm "forced into" or anything.


Oh well... just my opinions and such - and rather disconnected ones at that... *shrug*

(isn't sleep deprivation fun? LOL)

well mankan ,dont feel bad about reddie points,i got them too .now u see what i mean, u get flamed 4 speaking u r mind.im not anti goverment,cause its cool ,im anti goverment cause im mad as hell and tired of their lies,and totaly screwing us all over,im tired of america being the cops of the world[we handel every1s problems but our own,llok at vietnam,we had no busness at all over there,or bosnia..........and who pays 4 it NOT THEM OF COURSE,but the avrage joe.AND AS FAR AS DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT ,IT JUST FALLS ON DEFF EARS,THEY DONT WANT TO HEAR IT ALL,simply THEY DONT CARE.AND DRAZIW I AGREE WITH YOU ON MANY POINTS U MADE,like how they pull apaint chip out their asses and go bust some1 4 it ,WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT THE ONLY TIME THEY TAKE ACTION IS WHEN IT PISSES THEM OFF ,OTHER WISE THEY DONT CARE,WHAT HAPPENS TO ME OR U .WE ARE JUST A NUMBER HERE TO THEM,LIKE I SAID BEFORE JUSTICE ,IS JUST US CAUSE IT APPLYS TO ONLY US AVRAGE JOES.they tell us nothing till it leaks out then they decide to tell us what they want .andf u are right ,we shouldnt have to be afraid of our goverment,and free thought does get blurred as time goes on.ANY WAY MANKAN IM NOT BEING RACIST AT ALL ,U CAN CHANGE BLACK TO JEW OR WHAT EVER IF U ARE DIFFRENT IN ANY WAY HERE U ARE SCREWED,AND AS FAR AS KEEPING MY SPIT TO MY SELF,I SAID IT TO PROVE A POINT,AND IM SORRY FRIEND IF U DIDNT SEE THAT POINT,MABE U SHOULD COME TO AMERICA AND WALK A MILE OR 2 IN OUR SHOES,AND MABE U WILL SEE WHAT I MEAN.inmy city in america cops and crack dealers are the same people,here i got a better 1 4 u ,the mayor of washington d.c was convicted 4 doing crack,does that tell u something .do really want some rich crack head in power ,to run u r life ,to help make u r laws.how would u feel if in sweden if some crack head in office was running u r life[scary isnt it ].kahless720 is right in an aspest[ freedom is slavery ,and war can make peace,but ignorance isnt strenght].WELL AS FAR AS HACKING GOES ,FROM WHAT I KNOW THERE IS 3 KINDS OF HACKERS,1 BLACK HAT HACKERS these are people who make viri ,bump off cash machines,and who will eventually allllllllllot of time in jail 2 GREAY HAT HACKERS people who make viri screw up cpus and try to have harmless fun,and sometimes help friends with their screwed up cps.3 WHITE HAT HACKERS people who help get rid of viri,make anti viri programs like ceo of antionline jp,but some of these people help [OUR SO LOVING GOVERMENT]sweep the goverment dirt under the rug ,so we the people dont see their lies . IM SORRY IF I OFFENDED ANY1 HERE [THAT ISNT WHAT IM TRYING TO DO AT ALL]BUT I DONT CARE IF EVERY1 OF YOU GIVE ME ANTIPOINTS, I WONT BE SILENCED, I EVEN DONT CARE IF YOU ALL GET ME BANNED ON ANTIONLINE,I WILL JUST COME BACK ON ANOTHER ADDY AND ANOTHER NAME,AND SPEAK MY MIND[WHICH IS UNDER MY SUPPOSED RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN].IVE HAD MANY IM'S AND MAIL SAYING IM PARANOID,CRAZY,OR A RADICAL FROM MANY OF YOU .IF YOU HAVE NOTHING GOOD TO SAY JUST TYPE .......NULL INPUT


ACCESSOVERIDE

The government is like a small child, you wouldn't turn your back a child with a sharp object would you? I doubt it. The government can serve the people but if you blindly trust it injury is impossible to avoid. Distrusting government is the best way to keep it honest, the general piblic simply doesn't relize it so those who follow the government with their pay checks get their will asserted.

Just remember what has been said:

It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Voltaire (1694 - 1778)

Don't provoke the beast just make your will its will.