Ethics 101

I guess some people are just a little more ethically flexible that others. :(

"ethicly flexible" or mabee its just like an intense debate going on and were all afraid to step in the way, watching for the fists to start flying........ thats my guess, thats why im not in on it, besides, i have other "moral flexability" issuse with things other than those that are delt with on this site ;)

Ethics are a part of life lived and learned, what may be my truth may not be yours preception, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching those 5 senses only you know of the people in your life share that preception with you. I seek to understand how one justify's breaking into a box that they do not own, and understand cwk9 how ones preception and ethics say it is alright. LoggOff am not starting a fight and I hope that no swings will be tossed. I started a thread on Ethics on how I defend against intrusions, and like any mind seek to understand the Ethics of a break into computer person. As for "ethicly flexible" well lets see I met a woman 18 years ago fell in love, never occured to me she was not of my race. Love is that way and it is good it is. Humm to look at me one might say I am one way, for me I know 5 generations including the present of my own family. When I looked to my father, mother, grand parents great grand parents I saw people I loved not a race. Each of their histories I know well, of my wife's history her family I also know cause I am seen as family. This web brings many famlies together and goverments may have their own direction. Ethics play an important role out here as much as they do in real life. Soulman thanks and I do not know why few respond guess it comes down to in order to deal with stuff you first have to face it, nd well I get to post here is a privlage not a right, and lots of young smart minds this box[] called a computer is liked anything else in life part of anothers life you seperate whom you are out here and what you are in life you short change yourself. One grows old only when they stop asking questions...so this has been mine. I compare digital actions to my real world and seek to understand how the two differ and what Ethics are involved.

yeah i realise that theres not gonna be a fight, it was just an alanogy, i know theres nothing malitius ment by any of it. as for the thing with your wife, im my humble oppinion (about love this one goes quite extensivly) they say love is blind, and im a total beiver in it. you fall in love with someone of a different race or culture good for you, you found love, lucky bastard, now, mind giving me a hand at it :D

good post, i actually read it... instead of skimming

thumbs up

Sure LoggOff, know lots of pretty young smart women youngs they have a mind of their own, and well they have famlies and being accepted into their depends upon you. Ever visit Asia let me know lol. Culture is also good funny thing though when my wife and I visit her home land even she now is called an American....go figure funny outside the US color plays no role it is oh you are from America, and yes at times I get embarrassed seeing how Americans trash a local culture. Ethics touch many aspects in ones life as our own conduct, simple concept a virus writers spawned a billion dollar industry the outwit them all the time they make nothing while the viri company smiles says I got to renew my supscription costs $. Who did the virus author damage, end user and whom profited the virus protection company, end user =0$, virus author =0$ Antivirus company $1 bill plus. Where are the ethics there?

I find it odd that so many are wishing to persue computer security issues and yet this thread sort of went out of site. So you want to be in computer security and yet when faced with how you gain your knowledge am I to then understand then that Ethics play no part of the security issues? After all the Web was made by agreement betwen the dot gov and dot edu's public domain, what is called public property. Take TV and the Airwaves they are supposed to give back the part of the spectrum no longer used because of the digital mandate, think they will give them back to the public? Not on your life, MS did not arrive on the web until 1997 again public domain, yet now they think they own it. The old use it long enough it is yours thing. AOL well the web would be like a mall to go buy buy. Then the human genes lol again public funded but someone owns the rights now through patients. Ethis play a big part in life every aspect I believe, much of our lands now belong to not people but goverments and corps that using their market power come to believe they own the rights. So in security do we build a empire in battles that we invent our self? Virus writters give Virus scanning companys a reason to be. Ethics say what then change the world one person at a time or make as much money as you can and let everyone else suffer? Sad really so many smart young minds here and me well can say is my life is not one area everything I do works into everything else I do all of it together make me. Not to dis anyone like I said just older and see a mind set I myself cannot concieve out here at times.

Wow! A mouthfull and a half to say the least!

Definately a lot of thought put into this, Palemoon... You got my vote as the next president! :)

The way I look at it is a little more cut and dry (at least in presentation), so /me humbly enters discussion...

To me, an internet connection is no different than my front door or the windows in my house. All are "windows" or "paths" to the outside world. If a person breaks into my computer (for whatever reason), it is no different than someone breaking into my house (for whatever reason). Does it matter which window they gain access through? Does it matter if they break through the front door or the back?

Sure, I can put locks on my doors and windows. I can travel to the nearest village, find a world-famous electronics vendor, and trade a few dubloons for a security system (For that matter, I can build my own security system. It's not like they're complicated). That's no different than going out an buying into McAffee firewall (ethically speaking, of course! :)) In the same manner, it's no different than installing *BSD or Linux and building my own firewall. The point is that I don't want people coming into my house whether it be through my front door, my window, or my Internet connection. The point is that I want a reasonable amount of safety and security both for myself and for my loved ones.

Of course, locks and bolts can be compromised... Someone who knows what they are doing can pass these obsticles with a trivial amount of ease. And so it is with network "locks and bolts." Sure, it's going to turn most away at the simple realization that there are those obsticles, but it won't turn everyone away. If someone has a mind to break into my house, they're going to do it no matter what.

Even surpassing what I've already said... Even if my door is wide open and my curtains are swaying with the breeze, does that give anyone (anyone ) the right to enter my house without my consent? The answer is a pure, simple, and definitive "No! " Not morally, not ethically, and so it should follow suit legally without exception.

Smash your own computer and all you've lost is a tool (outdated or not) for your own means. That is your right if you so choose because it is your right to your means. As for "breaking and entering" into a computer through it's connection to the outside world (whether it be someone's personal computer or a vast system run by an institution), it's still "breaking and entering" and it is not right.

To pursue that point even further, taking information, deleting information, learning information that does not apply to you is stealing, defacing, and evesdropping. No... These things are not moral. They are not ethical... Neither should they be legal simply because "the door was open," "the locks weren't good enough," "I was mad, so I had to get even," or even "I wanted to learn." Bottom line (IMHO) is simply this... if you don't have permission, then you have no business whatsoever "breaking and entering." If you don't have permission, it's stealing, defacing, and/or evesdropping.

I think that the point Palemoon was trying to make (which I applaud) is that it should be the criminal that pays the dues... Not the victim(s). And just "cuz" something can be done doesn't mean that it's okay to do it... Not without the authoritative consent.

Again... Great post, Palemoon...

/me stands in applaud with tears in my eyes. :)

Rev

sorry that post was so long, but I didn't know how to cut anything else out without taking away from the point...

Rev

Rev thanks, LOL we at least have the same wind so to speak. But I as you I am sore want to learn about why this tool called a computer is used as it is. I mean kids to drive in the US now have to attend driving school, I did and even now in this state those licenses are being further restricted between 16 to 18 in hours and so many other ways. So we have all these high power tools with some of the biggest Dot Com's dismissing their power to make their bucks. Used common public property and claim it as their own, in turn I see smart people use what is not their's because they feel it is their right cause they know computers. So Ethics quetion is just because you know how to use a computer and you have since 5 how and why is it your right to use computer systems owned by others. After all most of our OS's license agreements absolve the producer of any wrong doing and no consumer rights. Because I own a computer and am on the web did I click away my right to prevent you from using my system. Page views and posts are way out of line. Are you people thinking, do not understand, or say oops never thought of that?