Big Brother?

The government likes control, thats what they do... These ID cards are just another form of control... As with everything there are pros and cons, I can see the good points aswell as the bad. The good:
1) As mentioned by Greek Goddess, access to vital medical information in the case of emergency
2) Access to criminal records, hmmmm good or bad?
3) The problem with illegal immigrants can be sorted
4) A sense of security perhaps? Some may like they idea that they are being looked after.
5) No need to carry other identifcation, all details on one card
6) Etc.......
Bad Points:
1) Some may regard it as an infringement of privacy
2) Some people dont like being 'looked after'
3) Possible abuse of the system, personal data could be used for blackmail etc.
4) Some people may not like the idea of other people accessing their personal information (not that you cant do that anyway)
5) May lead to other forms of control..............

These are some of the points that have been metioned. As with everything, there are supporters and non-supporters, some people will approve, some will not, thats just the way life is..........

terrorism:
n : the systematic use of violence as a means to intimidate or coerce societies or governments

I see no use of violence by anyone here.

Criminal Record:

n : a list of crimes for which an accused person has been previously convicted; "he ruled that the criminal record of the defendant could not be disclosed to the court"; "the prostitute had a record a mile long"


Multiple crimes and previously convicted. Not just one offense. When I mentioned a criminal record I was refering to murderers, rapists, and other more sever penalties. Since I am not a lawyer and am not a supreme court judge I can use these generalities. I can also make any judgements I want based on someones criminal activity. It is my right as a human to say that because this person murdered this person, he is not nice.

Terrorist Organizations I am refering to are the organizations that willfully conspire to KILL other people. I havn't heard of 2600, antionline or anyone other hacking group persuing to KILL anyone else. If it did happen, then it was a mistake and was not the SOLE INTENTIONS of them, unlike terrorist organizations as I have defined in this post.

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They haven't released what this data is going to be used for except 'fighting terrorism', yes but who is to decide what terrorism is? Not society! Society decided Hitler should rule in WWII, society placed Mussolini in power in Fascist Italy!

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Are they still ruling? NO, so society DID in fact decide they were terrorists and took care of the problem.

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In Nazi Germany you would be labeled 'Not so Nice' If you were jewish, gay, black, christian, islamic, had brown eyes, it didn't matter.

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This is NOT nazi germany. And at no-time are you going to be denied any other rights in the US by any of those things. I wish they did deny me something like that. I would be a very rich person then.

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Still using WWII as an example, the Polish, Italian, and French partisans(people fighting against Hitler and Mussolini) were the Terrorists, they were hunted down and shot.

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Again Nazi germany fell. It was taken care of by society, GLOBAL society.

As far as always having an ID is concerned. I for one do not feel like walking or biking everywhere I go. So if I want to drive a car, I have to carry proper identification.

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As to ethnicity, most of the people in america have begun to erase ethnicity with extra-racial marriges, etc. Which is a good thing, because according to the laws of genetics it would allow people more immunities to disease, less likely-hood(sp?) of cancer etc.

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I agree on this. Its about time people stopped looking at race, color, gender, religion, etc. I think the internet has made a great improvement on this, because in the cyber world most of this is unknown and you are based on your knowledge, idealisms, and beliefs, instead of your race, color, gender, etc...

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I agree with him, though in a less excited way. Who gets to define who the government tracks down. Who is to decide what a terrorist is? Is it anyone who disagrees with the government? Is it anyone who decides to exercise their right to free speech?

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Again I say that a terrorist organization is someone who deliberetly looks to kill someone else based on their beliefs , race, religion, etc...


The reason I quoted the neg was because I believe it should have been posted for discussion. Not a "well this is what I think and thats it" type thing. I just brought it out for furthur discussion. But as I see this discussion is going no where else, I bid this discussion fare well.

NOTE: This is not a direct attack on anyone. Just thoughts on paper about a subject.
Heh, no hard feelins out there I hope. ;)

There isint much point worry about what big brother has in store for us, because they will force it down our throats wether we like it or not. They already fed us Echelon, Carnivore, and The UN, and now they are working on the ICC (International Criminal Court) Thankfully Bush is working to get us away from the ICC, probably the brightest thing hes done so far.

As far as tracking people go, were heading for total destruction of privacy. The new laws to "combat terrorist" allow the police to perform "no-knock" searches, and never show you a warrant, or even give a reason for the search. The government stockpiles info on its citizens, esp those that recieve treatment at military hospitals such as Bethesda Naval Hospital. In fact, its highly likely that they are wathing this very message thread as it pertains to government.

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Again Nazi germany fell. It was taken care of by society, GLOBAL society.

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And we are acting in the same tradition, to prevent such
a thing from happening again by declaring that universal IDs are
a bad idea.

Why do you have a problem with that?
:cool:

lol... I don't have a problem with it. Just arguing my side of why I think it should be implemented.. I think I may of gotten caried away. Final's are tommorow and I've been really stressed lately. Guess some of that came out.. My apologies to anyone I offended or if I argued my case to much. Heh..

/me goes for a cig

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[i]
quote:
They haven't released what this data is going to be used for except 'fighting terrorism', yes but who is to decide what terrorism is? Not society! Society decided Hitler should rule in WWII, society placed Mussolini in power in Fascist Italy!

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Are they still ruling? NO, so society DID in fact decide they were terrorists and took care of the problem.

[/QUOTE]

I disagree with some of what you said, I don't think these men were terrorists, I think these were men of their time, doing what they could to gain power. I don't agree with the murder of millions of innocent people by Hitler or Mussolini but what would you do in their place? Hitler came to power when the rest of the world turned it's back on Germany. The Treaty of Versailles put a 33 billion dollar debt on Germany, ruined it's government, and ended it's military. What Hitler did from there was not terrorism (my opinoin) but a form of self-defense. Hitler may have made Jews the scapegoats but it turned Germany around from being one of the worst politically organized countries to the most feared and powerful country in the world.

Now to get back on subject, I still don't see why some people find this an invasion of privacy. The government already knows pretty much everything it wants to know about you from your SS# and driver's license, so what's the problem with a National I.D card?? I don't understand why some of you are aganist it, the only thing that would change would be that you would be required to carry around another card with a chip in that would let people know more about you faster.

(I mean this in offense to anyone.)

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Now to get back on subject, I still don't see why some people find this an invasion of privacy. The government already knows pretty much everything it wants to know about you from your SS# and driver's license, so what's the problem with a National I.D card?? I don't understand why some of you are aganist it, the only thing that would change would be that you would be required to carry around another card with a chip in that would let people know more about you faster.

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[list=1][*]They have no moral right to demand it of us.[*]Governments have a long historical record of oppression and abuse.[*]This would accomplish nothing positive or worthwhile for the common people.[/list=1]
:cool:

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Originally posted here by rcgreen


[list=1][*]They have no moral right to demand it of us.[*]Governments have a long historical record of oppression and abuse.[*]This would accomplish nothing positive or worthwhile for the common people.[/list=1]
:cool:

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Actually I think they certainly have the right to make us do it if it was implemented. But it all depends on the supreme court to decide it. By living as a citizen in this country, they can force some things upon you. Just look at Hilary Clinton.

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Originally posted here by rcgreen


[list=1][*]They have no moral right to demand it of us.[*]Governments have a long historical record of oppression and abuse.[*]This would accomplish nothing positive or worthwhile for the common people.[/list=1]
:cool:

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1.) They have every moral right to demand it from us, if it is for our better then they have the right to do anything they feel is necessary.

2.) Governments have a "long historical record of oppression and abuse" due to a National I.D card???? Please tell more.

3.) Example: You're in a car accident, you out cold, they run a check on your National I.D see your medical status, save your life.

Yes, the last one is kind of cheesey but who knows? You never know what's going to happen. Over time the card would prove benefical, it would eliminate SS# and driver's licenses.

Well, We complain about lack of security and such, but when they they try to implement something like this we scream "invasion of privacy". Who cares if big brother is watching? Atleast he protects us from the bully down the street.....