An HIV-Positive Muppet

Quote:

---

Originally posted here by JP

I'm just waiting for the day that these people wake up one morning and realize: no matter how many people we burn at the stake the sun will never revolve around the earth, the world's not flat, there's no way noah could have fit 2 of every animal on that boat, man has been around a lot longer than 6,000 years, evolution is a fact (no matter how much you hate to admit it) and no matter how many times they try to convince themselves that they're right, all through-out history they keep getting proven wrong.

Maybe one day man will take a leap out of the dark ages.

---

I know I am stepping out on a ledge here, but it doesnt matter to me. Feel free to flame me for my beliefs. Frankly, I will speak my mind whether or not it is the founder of the site I am debating.

JP,

The fact is, evolution is a theory that has many holes in it. There is no account in it for the origin of matter. That is its huge basic flaw. Archeology supports the Bible. Other written accounts support the Bible.

I don't understand why man must "invent" theories about how the earth began and how man evolved. It is nothing but a bunch of nonsense. You say the Bible is untrue, or maybe at best, Jesus was a real nice guy. Man has invented a way around the Bible so they can do whatever they want and act however they wish.

As to the issue of a HIV puppet, I say more power to them (as long as it stays in Africa). Africa has a known problem with HIV and AIDS, and they need education to help prevent the spread of the disease.

Quote:

---

The fact is, evolution is a theory that has many holes in it. There is no account in it for the origin of matter. That is its huge basic flaw. Archeology supports the Bible. Other written accounts support the Bible.

---

Ura, I appreciate your strong beliefs, but I really can't stand the way you people try to manipulate scientific facts. Darwin's theories, many holes in it? Excuse me? He didn't deal with the origin of the matter, true that. He was humble enough to realize that we're not up to that yet. Darwin never said he had an answer to that question. Matter != Species.
Archeology supports the Bible, sure; but to what extend? I doubt you can come up with scientific proof that Jesus ever cured a mute....(and no, Bible-quotes don't count).

Quote:

---

I don't understand why man must "invent" theories about how the earth began and how man evolved. It is nothing but a bunch of nonsense. You say the Bible is untrue, or maybe at best, Jesus was a real nice guy. Man has invented a way around the Bible so they can do whatever they want and act however they wish.

---

Thanks for quoting me on the 'nice guy' :D
How about I reverse your statement to 'Man has invented a way around science so they can feel save about whatever they do, because they think god supports them'?

Quote:

---

As to the issue of a HIV puppet, I say more power to them (as long as it stays in Africa). Africa has a known problem with HIV and AIDS, and they need education to help prevent the spread of the disease.

---

Nice christian attitude you have there, man. Your religion is one of the main reasons AIDS is still wide-spread. I say: **** around as much as you want, but use a condom!

And no, I'm pretty sure JP won't ban you for saying what you just said... JP ain't God, you know...

Wow, I've watched this post go from negative to extremely positive in one day.

Quote:

---

Nice christian attitude you have there, man.

---

The sad part is how many christians do have that attitude backing it by saying "God is on their side", I guess the like to just over look some of the "be compassionate" lessons taught by Christ.

As for evolution vs. creation, ever think God might have thought up that Adam and Eve stuff so some dumb human way back when didn't have to get into science dealing with the origin of matter?

I recently met a guy named Jonathan Wells, turns out he worked on a book explaining the many ways in which the 'facts' are fabricated or (willfully?) misinterpreted to support evolution. (I KNOW we are leaning off topic here, apologies...) I got the impression that he wasn't saying evolution was necessarily a flawed idea and that it was incorrect, rather that some people vigorously defend the evolution status quo and cite certain examples and evidence which may not be real.

A summary of one of his books
A rebuttal
Counterebuttals
I think the most important thing to remember in any forthcoming evolution/creation debate is that there are often totally-conflicting views and that no particular publication or author has entirely unchallenged data. (And definitely none have unchallenged conclusions.)

I think evolution rather elegantly explains the origin of species. It does not preclude God, however. I do not think the bible should be taken word for word. For anyone who DOES think it should be taken word for word, I would like to point out that many misprinted versions have circulated in areas before where 'murmurs' became 'murders' and one of the ten commandments was written WITHOUT the 'not' in "You shalt not..."... among other things. That and the bible as we know it today was first oral... then hebrew... and depending on the version, then greek, then back to hebrew, then.... etc.

One thing to note... biblical versions which support "virgin birth" are often traced back as being at one point in Greek. The Greeks often used 'virgin birth' in histories of people such as Caesar, Alexander the Great, Athena, etc, presumably as a literary device.

Back to the subject at hand...

True, AIDS and HIV are often confused by the public. A syndrome is not a disease, per se, but a collection of symptoms, at least in my mind. I think that the makers of these shows know their target audience better than we do. I think it is more important that HIV-afflicted individuals be given a chance to contribute to society than to agressively stigmatize them. After all, I would posit that most of the transmission is done by people who believe they are safe.

Is the use of "Muppets" realistic? I think it is time that the governing bodies of the countries in question took more responsability for the "Plagues" that are present in their own countries. How many more people need to die? The battle against the Aids virus has been waged for more than 20 years, much like the war on drugs without significant results. Time for plan B.

Well, we still live in a day and age when people like the Catholic Pope are saying that things like condoms are evil. Way to help stop the spread of aids. Of course, his thinking is that everyone should "wait until marriage". Blah blah blah. How realistic is that. Teenagers have been going at it since humans were little monkeys in treetops, and it's not going to stop now...

Also, what is it with religious people and their "well, if evolution exists, how do you explain this" or "if god didn't do this other thing, how did it happen"? Just because we don't yet understand EVERYTHING about the universe scientifically yet, doesn't mean that I need to dream up some sort of hocus-pocus to explain it all away. History is full of religions that were developed to explain away things that humans didn't understand or were afraid of. The gods that moved the sun across the sky, the gods that brought the rains or made volcanoes erupt, the gods that caused lightning, or made the seasons change, the list goes on and on.

In science, if a theory is ever proven to be wrong, or if our understanding of something changes, we adopt our new found facts, and progress forward. With christianity, and other religions, as things are proven false as our understanding of our world around us increases, they either refuse to accept the scientific truth and stick with their sun-revolves-around-the-earth mentality, or simply explain it away by saying that specific section of the bible is "symbolic". Yes, it's symbolic alright, symbolic of how ridiculous the whole thing is........

Christianity was developed to control the masses, at a time when those that ruled them were corrupt and self-serving. You have to give them credit though, as it seems their plan still works even in this modern day and age.

Still, in present day, simple minded people turn to such nonsense to explain away what they don't understand, or to comfort their fears (such as the fundamental human fear of death).

But, those that "believe" and that are "saved" and that will float off into some little land of pixie dust when they die will never change their minds about things no matter what I say, and no matter what we learn about the world around us. We'll just have to let them lead their simple little lives out. Unfortunately, when it's all over, I won't be around to say I told you so.

Give me a break.

Hey, let's not go overboard with the religious talk. If someone wants to beleive something then let them. If you don't agree then that's great. But that is no reason to call people simple minded because they beleive in 'nonsense'.

I don't beleive in the bible's interperatation of the beginning nor am I ultterly convinced by today's theories. Although, I think we're on the right track. Has anyone seen the movie Inherit the Wind? The Tracy Spencer version is very good. It really makes you think about the whole Genesis idea.

Anyway, back to the muppets. I hope they get the go ahead. If they do this right it could really make a big difference in the future. Even if it's really watered down, I think it will do more good than bad.

Quote:

---

Also, what is it with religious people and their "well, if evolution exists, how do you explain this" or "if god didn't do this other thing, how did it happen"? Just because we don't yet understand EVERYTHING about the universe scientifically yet, doesn't mean that I need to dream up some sort of hocus-pocus to explain it all away. History is full of religions that were developed to explain away things that humans didn't understand or were afraid of. The gods that moved the sun across the sky, the gods that brought the rains or made volcanoes erupt, the gods that caused lightning, or made the seasons change, the list goes on and on.

---

Right on JP! I'm very much against the whole organized religion thing myself. I firmly admit that I have NO FRICKING CLUE what created this place, or why...and at this point, I don't much care. I'm 23 as well, so I figure as a smoker I have about 50-55 years left...I'm not going to waste my time trying to figure it out.

As for the whole muppet stuff...let them do whatever they want. If they want to have HIV muppets, all the more power to them. If they want to have lesbian muppets, who the hell cares. If you don't like it...don't watch it. That's the Amazing Mystical Power of TV(Unlike the amzing mystical powers of the antipoint algo's)...there's always something else on. It's the same with the internet...if people don't like a site's content...it's their universal option to never go back.

Okay, I'm going to go zooming back on topic here (I know better than to try to discuss evolution, religion, and gay rights here...lol!)

To the moron who gave me this in my "comment" box:

Quote:

---

yea its a good idea to shelter your kids from the real world so when they grow up they will know how to make the correct decisions

---

Um, do you have kids? If you do, then you know that parents go thru life hoping and praying that they make the right decisions for their children. My decision to not discuss sex with my son at his current age is a personal decision. I'm not talking about discussing sexuality, homosexuality, bestiality or any of those things. I think that at the age he is now, needing to know what goes where or why for ANYBODY is unneccesary. Maybe if we let kids be kids a little longer, then we can cut back on the number of so-called "emotionally disabled" or what the hell ever kids we have. There is no reason a child of seven needs to know about sex, whether it's safe sex, unsafe sex, or monkey love. My point was that I hope the focus of Sesame Street could be on the number of children who have received the HIV virus thru blood transfusion, hemophilia, and by being born to parents who have it, rather than going too far into the sexual nature of the disease.

If the person who gave me the AP's doesn't have kids....shut your freakin pie hole coward. Why don't you try signing them.

Deb