You are either with us, or you're fired!

OKOK, i won't use my more earthy offduty language anymore, CK, folks. One of my acquaintances is a rather highly placed member of government (lots of room there, right?) who by nature of his work is required to constantly speak "off the cuff" using perfect english structure and word usage while making perfect sense the first time around; no corrections or misunderstanding allowed in his world. "Offduty" is a hoot, and if you did not know who he was you would swear you were listening to some cowboy poet or mountainman, redneck or recluse, as the tone, accent, and words change when he's among friends. I came to the conclusion long ago that it's his way of relaxing. Perhaps some of his comical habit has rubbed off. But any-hooo; a group of us were having coffee or whatever some months ago and one of the group related how he had received an invite from the RNC to attend the ceremonies on the Capital steps for the new president. He felt pleased as he read the invitation, since he had donated well over seven solid figures to the recent political race at various levels. "Offduty" asked him; "Well, Bub, did'ja hav a good time, slap a lot a backs, shake a lota hands, drink lotsa bubbly?" ... "No, I didn't attend." ..."Whycome?" ..."Well, I got to the bottom of the invitation and they invited me to donate another ten thousand for the honor of attending." We all kind of looked around, probably a tad confused, and "Offduty" asked; "Well, Bub, that's pocket change fer you, why'nt ya go an' mingle?" ..."'Cause the bill for another ten grand irritated me, that's why, so i called them and politely told them to not reserve my chair, and while they were at it to not hold their breath while they waited for my next donation."
Don't know what that's got to do with the thread, but if i get to usin' poor English 'an actin' like a hillbilly, may i beg your pardon in advance.
Besides, P481 was on target, rcgreen hit the bullseye again here as usual, deb was on target and we all owe her for living in Florida so the rest of us don't have to :), tdob1 was ruthlessly accurate in his thoughts, toad was correct in that most governments are not purely what they claim to be, and i thought 4MH's comments were almost hilariously on target if it was not such a sober subject, and ab1963 gave valid thoughts.
I'm still dang glad i ain't president, and even gladder that you aint, CK, 'cuz we'd have ta change flags or you'd have ta move about 6,000 miles and change citizenship! (there i go, jokin' again 'an murderin' th' king's english as well...). Hey, i like all of ya. Some more than others, but all of ya nonetheless! :D

Just to add a little bit more to this thread (as a tax-paying law-abiding citizen that I am)...

In America, where we have freedoms no other country has, everyone has the right to live out their dream, whether it's go to college, own a business, or raise a family in a "free" environment and sending kids to school. That I don't have a problem with. I have a problem with economic structure that's been tolling out a beating to the average workers of the US (me, as well as most of the middle-class). How is this done?

1: the scheme in place now and a few years back before the internet blowup supported the "Rich getting richer and poor getting poorer". The rich get the tax breaks while the poor get on or stay on welfare which is a dying system, just like the social security system is. What's left is the middleman, most of your work force, left holding the bag with nowhere to advance.

2: supporting #1, businesses have way too much leniency in the market. Books being cooked well over the past few decades ramped up with the internet boom while putting more money into making your numbers look good rather than actually creating a product and content behind that flash-driven website. There's a lot more in that, but when companies are found out about cooking books (like MCI overstating 7 billion total or Enron or countless others we haven't heard of), the internet boom is over, as well as the 9/11 attacks, what do you have?

...

You have an economic collapse on one front (technology) while the stock market takes one of the biggest dumps outside of the Great Depression (any event that closes Wall Street is pretty catastrophic) at the same time that the unemployment skyrockets because thousands upon thousands of people without jobs are dumped into an already saturated market while the people to blame in the businesses are scot-free with severances that rank in the millions mark or they've still got a job during "reorganization".

Bush isn't to blame for all of this. I will say that his "here's a check from Uncle Sam, go spend some cash" was a bad idea. That was a card that could only be played once as people had to list that on their taxes the next year. I do find it funny how Florida (where I live as well) is the site of the "voting" problem as well as the "terrorist" scare (this was something that happened three weeks ago along I-75). And you know what's coincidental in all of this? His brother, good ol' Jeb Bush, is governor of Florida.

Bottom line, before I continue off-topic, hehe, Bush has a lot of skeletons in his closet, just like every other president before him. The problem is, I'm pretty sure that a lot of people were just wishing it was as easily spotted like a stain on Monica's dress and not something to do with Enron (which he and countless others in DC knew about and were involved in).
We know he won't make another term, that's for sure. The American Public has seen that votes *do* count and that in 2004, I'm sure you'll see a turnout that'll break historic records.

Dont know much about that it may concern those people living in the state maybe it's close to that i can only say that what he's doing right now (bush) is'nt right bout that iraq thing maybe bush is trying to hide some "thing" on he must focused his attention towards American Citizens not to this s**t war against iraq , iraq hasn't done anything yet if he insist to forced iraq goverment this might coz a lot of trouble globally

this is only my concern and my opinion hope it does not offend other people you may give your comments or pm me what ever you want to say against what ive just written

thanks

As much as I try to stay out of political discussions, I think that I am going to give my two-cents.

First off, anyone that believes statistics at face value is just looking to be lied to. Generically speaking, someone saying that unemployment is up 35% implies that unemployment has risen from 5.9% to around 40%. That just isn't true. The last unemployment numbers that I saw said that unemployment is actually down to 5.8% of eligible working adults from 5.9% a month ago.

Second, the budget surplus that everyone was talking about was a projected surplus over a number of years, not an actual one. There hasn't been a true budget surplus since the federal deficit first began, so there is no point in arguing about that.

Third, why do we always hear about jobs being eliminated, but not the ones that are created. I would bet that the total number of jobs hasn't actually changed very much at all. You never see on CNN.COM when a company builds a new plant or opens new warehouses or stores, but it is happening all over the place. As far as job cuts go, a lot of corporations are taking advantage of the down economy to do downsizing that they wanted to do during the 'stock bubble' but couldn't really justify while times were good.

The reductions in headcount in the technology sector are, in my opinion, the result of corporations not NEEDING to upgrade hardware and software, not because they can't afford to. If you have a 1.5 GHZ Pentium 4 and a 2.5 GHZ Pentium 4 comes out do you just go out and upgrade? No, because you can't surf the web any faster on the new one than you can on the old one. I don't see corporate spending increasing on technology any time soon because the technology has grown faster than the need for it. It's that simple.

I think that the statement about the stock market being down 34% is too general. The major indexes are down right now, but the indexes don't actually reflect the entire market. And the market alone does not indicate the health of the economy. The market REACTS to the economy, it doesn't drive it.

There are a lot of people that don't have health insurance, that's true. But in America there is a certain amount of personal responsibility that one has to take to make sure that you and your family are taken care of. If I don't have what I need to survive it isn't the governments fault and it isn't my boss' fault. It is mine. Besides. basic health care can be found for free. Children can be immunized for free. Emergency rooms have to treat you even if you can't pay. This is just another statistic.

And finally, more and more corporate crooks are being held accountable every day. One more turned himself in yesterday according to CNN. There are two issues that I see with corporate crooks. First, they have to be found. If you stole $250 million would you sit at home and wait for the FBI to come and get you? Or would you head for Mexico? And second, there is this thing that we have in America called the Constitution. You have to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these people intended to defraud investors. The premise is simple, innocent until PROVEN guilty. But don't worry, in time more and more people will be hauled in.

/rant