Newbies vs. Addicts

SittingDuck,

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As far as I can see the difference between an Addit and a newbie, is that an Addit knows what is acceptable for a post. So thats my 2cents on the matter.

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This is probably about 80% fact. ;)

But... there are a few of us here who won't even post to a thread that is "stupid, offensive, off topic, etc..." It is not worth the loss of reputation to add to a thread full of meaningless s**t. Those folks will simply thow a pos or a neg at the person(s) tell them why in a comment, and sign it. At least the REAL upper echelon will sign it. If I am going to neg someone without posting to their thread I will always sign it. But, of course there always seems to be an ******* or 2 in the mix that really seems to throw a wrench in the gears.
<rant>Like this weirdo
I don't know about you but I could never respect a person who goes by this name. Newbie or not, this guy has zero respect for others. I don't care if he is the most intelligent member we have, he has no future here.
The first thing I noticed, is his profile is very incomplete.</rant> :firedevil

<edit>Here is a perfect example...I just recieved a well deserved neg on this post, here is the comment:

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youre not supposed to be signing anonymous antipoints

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This person IS 100% correct with his statement. The AntiPoint system is SUPPOSED to be anonymous. I deserved this because I mentioned, IMHO, the "right thing to do". I am not trying to upset the AO apple cart by telling you all that I sign my antipoint awards to others. I have been called down on this before, I might add. ;)
This just supports the statement I made to a tee. I am sure this person will not post to this thread as he/she feels they are "above" this conversation.
P.S. this cost me exactly (1) point off of my total </edit>

I think you have a good point with not all "newbies" knowing absolutely nothing about security. Personally, I have noticed some really good answers on various threads coming from newbies and I'm pleased with the way this site is working out. The reason I joined this site was to LEARN more and become more than just a gamer and the "tech guy" over the phone to people. Finally, aeallison, I think you have a good system going on with the way you hand out your APs, its very fair, and I'll try to keep it in mind.

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But... there are a few of us here who won't even post to a thread that is "stupid, offensive, off topic, etc..." It is not worth the loss of reputation to add to a thread full of meaningless s**t

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I don't mind the loss of reputation that goes with posting to this thread (not that I had any rep anyway) :D
and this would be the stupidest thread I've seen in a long time...

<rant>

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As far as I can see the difference between an Addit and a newbie, is that an Addit knows what is acceptable for a post. So thats my 2cents on the matter.

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This is probably about 80% fact.

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80% fact... that's 100% fact. Blind Willy could tell you that was 100% fact.

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becuz i know others, including myslef, who were negged by members w higher status for asking a valid question

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I seriously hope your idea of a valid question isn't something like this or this.

Ok: If you're a newbie, you don't search google, and you ask a question when the answer is easily available ON google, like by hitting the 'I'm feeling lucky', then don't be surprised when you get ****ing negged or flamed. It's not nice to rip into the newbies on this site for asking a question like that - but it's not unfair. If you need something explained, or the general opinion on something, then fine, post a question on it. But don't post a stupid question and whinge about negs.

At one time or another you've probably heard that there's no such thing as a stupid question. Well when it comes to stuff like this, there is. Auntie's example of medical jargon would hold true for the medical industry - sometimes you need to know something quickly and the easiest way to find out is to ask a more senior nurse, for example. If you need to know the answer to a question on computer security, you would (generally) be sitting at your computer, not exactly pressed for time, and with a wide range of search engines available for you to use. If you can't find the answer, and you have searched high and low, then post it. It's a valid question, and by adding a disclaimer, you show people that you have at least looked.

Tedob1's thread here encouraged people to lay off flaming noobs. I would like to think that it was halfway successful. Hopefully noobs will not be scared off by the angry addicts/senior members any longer. But, if they post a stupid question and get flamed/negged - they deserve it.
</rant>

I am a newbie. I'm here to learn and I'm glad if I can help other people. But lemme tell u somethin. I'm not THAT attached to the rank.

I think the only difference between newbies and addicts is, like ebo pointed out (post #12), whether they care to read the FAQ or not. I mean whatever ur official rank is, ur a newbie unless you read and understand the FAQ.

I once reminded a senior member to RTFM and google what he wanted to know:
http://www.antionline.com/showthread...382#post563382
Yeah, I understood the risk messing with a senior, and I'm not proud of what I've done, but I thought as a community member I really needed to remind him.

So? Read and understand the FAQ. Dunno where to find it? I don't believe it. U can search it easily. And one more thing:

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How to not look stupid
I will let you know about a few mistakes many new people make, so you can avoid the usual fare of newbie stuff. The title is just a joke ;). We were all new at one point and we have all made mistakes. Don't worry if you make a mistake, or someone appears angry about it, they are usually only joking around. The most common mistake is posting something in the wrong place. This takes a while to get used to, but before starting a new thread, take a quick glance at the forums list and see where it fits best. Another mistake commonly made is creating a thread already made. It's pretty difficult going through all the posts to see if the new thread idea you have already exists but do a quick scan or use the search function to search for the thread.

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Peace always,
<jdenny>

powertoad5000,

/me wonders why you hid this post?

It may be extremely boring to some, but, to others it probably answers a lot of questions they had. I, for one, have learned quite a lot in this thread.

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Tedob1's thread here encouraged people to lay off flaming noobs. I would like to think that it was halfway successful. Hopefully noobs will not be scared off by the angry addicts/senior members any longer. But, if they post a stupid question and get flamed/negged - they deserve it.

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This was a very interesting thread, sadly I had not seen it until you referenced it. You really did a lot of research on your post. It also seems to me that you have some sort of grievance with a newbie, 1pizzaluvr4u, as you referenced a couple of of her earlier threads she posted to. 3 links to threads almost 30 days old. I can tell that 1pizzaluvr4u has improved in several areas, her posts are getting better. I can tell everyone here that they (if they wanted to do the research) could pull up similar posts that I made in my first few days here.

I am not saying that you are doing anything wrong by posting what you did here, just that you are also still learning, as I am, and everyone on this planet capable of breathing. You hid your post for what reason?

I have a tendancy to rate a members potential on these forums by their personal profile, here is yours (for an example) and for another example... here is mine (toot, toot ;) ) Notice anything? I am not saying that you should give your complete life story here, but be proud of your accomplishments. I see so many members profiles with their birthdate set to "nil" does that mean you are not really here? I am sorry but the only sense I can see in being incomplete or deceptive in your own profile is that you have something to hide, or just plain ol ashamed of what/who you are. Their are legit reasons for being deceptive here, most of them are spurred from fear of something, or by an oath of non-disclosure, etc...I can understand leaving things blank because you might not have anything to add to it, But, don't fill it with misleading cr*p. If you can't say anything nice don't say it at all...this term is again spawned by a person who was tired of being ridiculed. Why even make this statement to another person, it just shows that the general concensis has been not so nice...why? And for the photo, I am sure you can find no one here uglier than my mugshot, but it, at least, lets people know I am real...:D

Just don't die aeallison...if you do then I'm stuck as the ugliest man on AO!

But seriously, I too read Tedobs thread and adopted my own method of handling the "newbie" situation. If I see a newie post that is out of line, I'll drop them a friendly pm and explain what is or is not acceptable in their post, ask them to look at the FAQ's and welcome them to AO. No negs, no greens, just a little friendly advice. If they choose to continue being anal retentive or outright ignorant after that, then I see it as open season for negs from that point forward. I'm not promoting that type of behaviour, just saying that there are alternatives for negging the newbies.

Hrm...now for my $.02

Addicts = you post alot
Points = you either make good posts, or people like you (be it for your opinions, friendships, or you are a hot girlie)

In the end, they have only as much value as you give them. Neither one qualifies you as an expert in any way or has any standing on your technical knowledge. If you want to judge that or be judged by that then I'd suggest going over posts made by that person in the past to see what they are all about.

Most noobs do need to think more before they post. Using hacking to gain knowledge isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's all in how you go about it (and how you phrase your questions/posts). If you are going to try different tools such as sub 7 or play with exploits and virii...fine. But set up a test box/network and do it there. Do it responsibly.

If you have a really basic question, use google and see if you can find it yourself. If you have a more difficult question....use goodle and see if you can find it yourself. No one wants to spoon feed anyone else or be their mr. miyagi. And if someone says they do.....be weary of them.

The answers to most of your questions have been asked a thousand times by other people on the internet. Earlier today we (myself and people from irc) looked up exploits and techniques related to port 0, fragmentation scans, and the possible uses of mtu size exploration in order to do recon/attack a network. It's all out there...just take some initiative and go look first.

And finally, it's all about intent. If you are doing stuff to learn then for god's sake take the time to learn the basics of your os, networking, and any programming language you may need. Don't just come in and ask people to hold your hand and help you hack hotmail or social engineer people. If you think you have a valid security related question and it get's flamed then maybe you need to re-think the way you are asking it.

Finally...the post count doesn't always update your standing on the site....I'm still a noob. :)

I'm on the fence with this one.I think people should take it easy with the n00bs for a lot of things.I've seen newbies get negged to the point of being banned for double posting their first post(well actually two posts),and for asking questions that are in the FAQ.In cases like this don't be so damn trigger happy with the negs.

On the other hand,I've seen n00bs come in and make their first posts using vulgar language and asking how to hack hotmail and school networks and whatever else.In this case,I think they should be told to delete the post,why to delete the post,and given a little time to do so.If they decide not to do it,then they should get negged.

I know on more than one occasion I've gotten negged down to gray for posting my opinion on a controversial issue,and was lucky enough to be bailed out of getting negged to cyber oblivion for posting a thread very similar to this when I was a junior member.I'm not saying that I did or didn't deserve negs when I got them,because I know I've kinda asked for them with a few of my posts.I don't however feel that a person should be negged for their opinion(whatever their rank).I may be a little off base,but I think the whole idea of AP's is to get rid of the people who don't try to better themselves and the site by learning something/making posts of better quality,not to try to instill your opinion on people with less AP's than you.

It seems that again I have let my mouth over-ride my a**. I just recieved quite a butt chewing from powertoad5000. This member has very legit reasons for being slightly deceptive on their profile. I am sorry d00d, I used a poor example set. :( His post is hidden due to language. I again thought a different reason, thats what happens when you outlive the dinosaurs...

allenb1963,
Good information/suggestion. :thumbsup:

Juridian,
Thanks for your $.02

gghornet,

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I know on more than one occasion I've gotten negged down to gray for posting my opinion on a controversial issue,and was lucky enough to be bailed out of getting negged to cyber oblivion for posting a thread very similar to this when I was a junior member.I'm not saying that I did or didn't deserve negs when I got them,because I know I've kinda asked for them with a few of my posts.I don't however feel that a person should be negged for their opinion(whatever their rank).

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Me too! But I just can't seem to stay out of these threads. I suppose that we all eventually get what we deserve.

And powertoad5000 also suggests that I change my sig...

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judging by that signature of yours. Maybe you should paraphrase it: 'Anyone who iz +40 and shallow az a wading pool can't be all that bad'.

Neg me, I don't care.

-toad

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LOL toad, this is good stuff. I would never neg a person for this. Thanks for the view of another perspective.

I have been around for a while, and here is what i've coem to think: addicts or whatever are usualy good in their fields but they can't stand questions that are either too obvious or not pc ... so do a google search / tread serach first.
As far as the greenies I don't think they really matter that much because you often get greenies from opinions treads not on tech related info so they are not that representative....

And it is also true that it's not because you joined a year ago or last week that either one can be more knowledgable ....
my 2 cents